++ The Harrowing - An Alpha Legion Community ++

[Panzer]

Plus chaos space marines in general aren't really a stay back and shoot army. I mean sure you can make a gunline of havocs/predators but they doesn't sound terribly interesting and it's also not really taking advantage of the full strength of csm.

*cough* Iron Warriors *cough*

[ChazSexington]

Plus chaos space marines in general aren't really a stay back and shoot army. I mean sure you can make a gunline of havocs/predators but they doesn't sound terribly interesting and it's also not really taking advantage of the full strength of csm. I think the AL trait is best seen as a way to keep your units safe until they get into assault range, not as a trait that forces you to play a gunline.

 

Bizarrely, we are currently best at staying back with Havocs and DakkaDreads. 

[Brother Aiwass]

Specially nurgle havocs backed with a sorc for -2 to hit :D

[Lord Asvaldir]

As I said sure you can make a gunline focused on havocs but a lot of csm units are focused on either assaulting being at close range.

[shaun03]

Combine arms approach, is looking like solid choice for us. Pure gun line is better suited for IW, and all out CC for WE and NL.  

 

Whats the collective thinking on Havocs vs chosen? My XX was mainly 30k but now that 30k is dying fast, so there moving up to 40k. So support sqs can either be havocs or chosen. I personally leaning towards havocs because there cheaper, I want them shooting so losing the extra (A) isn't hurting me, I am use to them not having the extra attack anyway. Plus their heavy support so keeping my elites slot open. Am I missing something between the two?

 

Rhinos worth taking combi-weapon and havoc lunchers, turn them poor man razorback?

 

Does anyone keep their cultist models clean looking at not chaosy looking. I have few sqs of DKOK looking using them for Cultist fits the siege of Varks and justifies my XX coming to light in 40k setting. 

[Lord Asvaldir]

For melta/plasma, havocs are pretty much always more useful. The extra attack of chosen isn't going to save them if they get charged by any decent assault unit. Plus havocs are cheaper. Only reason I'd take melta/plasma chosen is if my heavy slots were full.

 

Now flamer chosen might be ok since they have to be really short range. You could give them 4 flamers plus a power weapon one one chosen plus the champion for a half decent assault resistant unit given the flamer overwatch.

 

Haven't tried havoc launchers on rhinos yet, I suppose since they are tougher now and you can shoot at +4 bs after a full move, a havoc launcher might be worth it.

 

Cultists can look pretty much anyway you want I think, they can have a diverse range of backgrounds. Personally mine are chaosy but I'm also a WB player so it's expected.

[micahwc]

Chosen can take 4 special weapons AND one heavy weapon if you want to, and they take elite slots for filling out battalion/brigade detachments. I'm working on a tournament list for an upcoming tournament that is 1500 points, and I would love to use my chosen as Havocs to save about 30 points per squad, but they fill out the elite requirements to give me a battalion so it's better for me to run them as chosen in this situation.

[shaun03]

Filling out slot is major deciding factor, my elites are filled with contemptors and sicaran so moving over to havocs free up congestion.

 

Is there a point adjustment coming with the new dex? 30pt is good saving, at 1500 netting a spawn, or bodies for something else. But loosing CP and is bigger burden.  

 

A every expensive point wise option I was thinking of trying out is 4 sq of havcos either plasma or melta in a Kharybdis. (This rule of sharing transport is going to be short lived.)  Starting it on the table top and jamming right at them, unloading everything. drop pod assault rules wont work because of 9inch restriction.

[Sete]

Quick question, Arkos the faithless has the Alpha Legion keyword, but one of his buffs only applies for the Faithless, which can be a key word given to Renegades and Heretics right?

 

I have been playing around with chaos lists, and Arkos gives CP, and rolling a Vanguard detachment for one more, gives you the options for marauders, which in my opinion, Hereteks with carapace armour can be a good option for AL human operatives. The stalkers are awesome for camping in cover with -1 to hit, and get a bonus to cover aswell.

 

I'm seriously tempted to go for it.

[Khornestar]

Good question. My first guess would be no, but I could be wrong. (RE: Faithless for the Renegades). There's no opportunity to name your renegade regiment, they have the "Renegades and Heretics" keyword instead of <Regiment> or something.

[Sete]

Ah that complicates things. Where then does the Faithless key word is applied?

[Khornestar]

It would seem to be a Legion keyword, though I'd call it a renegade warband. Except renegade is its own Legion keyword. So

 

Yeah... not really the most elegant system at times.

[Commissar K.]

Quick question, Arkos the faithless has the Alpha Legion keyword, but one of his buffs only applies for the Faithless, which can be a key word given to Renegades and Heretics right?

 

I have been playing around with chaos lists, and Arkos gives CP, and rolling a Vanguard detachment for one more, gives you the options for marauders, which in my opinion, Hereteks with carapace armour can be a good option for AL human operatives. The stalkers are awesome for camping in cover with -1 to hit, and get a bonus to cover aswell.

 

I'm seriously tempted to go for it.

Under the current wording you can change Legion to Faithless but that would "count as" a Renegade Warband Legion for the purposes of Legion Traits.

 

Good question. My first guess would be no, but I could be wrong. (RE: Faithless for the Renegades). There's no opportunity to name your renegade regiment, they have the "Renegades and Heretics" keyword instead of <Regiment> or something.

No you can actually name them. It's just mentioned as an example that Red Corsairs follow that path for example.

 

The Codex covers the Legion Traits for the following:

- Black Legion

- Iron Warriors

- Renegade Chapters (which can be Faithless, Corsairs etc. but not Fallen)

- World Eaters

- Night Lords

- Emperor's Children

- Alpha Legion

- Word Bearers

 

So if you have two Keywords on a FW character I believe it can apply for two options. In the case of an Alpha Legion Keyword character with Faithless Keyword it could apply for Alpha Legion and Renegade Chapters. It feels a bit odd but it can be done.

 

I have the same issue with the WE character from FW, he boosts Skulltakers, who are not World Eaters the moment you would change the Keyword to Skulltakers.

[Kierdale]

Inspirational Friday: The Alpha Legion

For those who do not know it, Inspiration Friday is a (generally) fortnightly weekly event within its home in the Chaos Space Marines forum, in which a topic is set for members to write short (or long if the muse takes you) fluff/fan-fic pieces about their war bands, characters and models.

And today begins our fifteenth challenge of Inspirational Friday 2017:

Alpha Legion

The 20th legion, a riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.

Experts in infiltration, covert operations and manipulation, often the enemies of the serpent do not realise who their true foe is, and indeed the pawns of the legion may work unaware of the identity of their masters.

“Sinners in a shroud of lies” they were labelled by the Night Haunter and it is suspected that even during the Horus Heresy the legion infiltrated both their treacherous allies and the ranks of the loyalist legions.

Who truly knows where the loyalties of the Alpha Legion lie? Do they serve the Primordial Annihilator or are they still true to the Emperor’s ideals?

Tell us this time a tale of the Hydra (30k or 40k).

Inspirational Friday: Alpha Legion runs until the 25th of August.

Let us be inspired.

To whomever wins IF: Alpha Legion goes the Hydra Amulet...

BEHOLD!

Please submit all entries in the main IF2017 thread linked to above.

[shaun03]

Until FW decide to reply and give clear guidance on Arkos,he stuck in limbo. I still toss him in my list 1+ CP is worth it, and with our trait its not like were going to lose points if he killed, he makes for a ok distraction, simple because killing him removes a CP so he going to draw some fire power his way. 

[micahwc]

I will run him as Alpha Legion with a shooting based list. I'll just lose out on the extra charge benefits since I won't be running Faithless. He is kind of a beast in close combat and has one of the only damage 3 melee weapons available to chaos characters.

[TheMelancholic]

Greetings Legionaries!

 

I'm looking to start a Chaos warband and the Alpha Legion rules were just what I needed to push me over the edge and ensnare myself in the Hydra's coils.

 

I'm considering a shooting heavy list with a number of Havocs/Chosen with special weapons acting as fireteams using the forward operatives stratagem, backed up by rapier heavy bolters and dorito dreadnoughts in the backline.

 

My 1850 point list looks something like this:

 

Spearhead with 3 havoc squads and dual plasma pistol lord

 

Spearhead with 1 havoc squad, rapier batteries, deredeo and sorcerer

 

Battalion with 3 Nurgling units and two nude lords

 

I still have quite a few points to play around with after all this, but I feel that this makes a solid and tactically flexible core.

The havoc squads deploy up front and hopefully eliminate the enemy's prize units with plasma/melta fire while the Nurglings get their free infiltrate and squat on objectives/deny deepstrikes/tie up shooty units. Rapiers and deredeo can punish units at range (especially hordes of cheap infantry) while taking advantage of the -1 to hit from the Alpha Legion trait.

 

My only concern with this list is that it has limited CC capacity and relies heavily on the Alpha strike of Havocs shooting away. Of course I'd be looking at what the enemy is bringing first before deciding how to deploy. If he's running something like 90+ Ork Boyz or a boatload of Conscripts my Plasma/Melta might be wasted and I might be better castling up and saving my CP for stuff like Veterans of the Long War/Endless Cacophony or Fire Frenzy for the Dread.

 

I have about 300 points or so to play around with to fill out the list and I want your opinion on how I can make it more well rounded. I'm pretty certain the list would do well against an elite force like GK, Deathwatch or even just regular Marines, with potential for a lot of high power shots and area denial with Nurglings. What worries me more is massive horde lists that the first strike can't adequately cripple, which is why I've included the Rapiers and the deredeo (though I still think they may not be enough to really deal with mass infantry).

 

As for what could make the list more well rounded, these are some of my ideas:

 

• 15 Khorne Bezerkers (Chainsword + Axe) and swapping one of the naked lords to an Apostle. AFAIK forward operatives does not prevent a unit from acting normally after they deploy, so the Bezerkers can get an easy charge after infiltrating in. I'm confident Bezerkers can beat damn near anything as long as they get the first swing, especially if backed up by an apostle.
• Some more shooty units (Havocs with heavy weapons, Rapiers, Contemptor with Kheres cannons e.c.t.). Not as flashy as Bezerkers but may be a better option for Alpha Legion, making the most of their trait and generally providing a better fire-base. Havocs with heavy bolters are comparatively cheap and I could fit three more rapiers in for less than 300 points. The Contemptor is also an option I'm considering, being a tougher nut to crack and more accurate with his guns.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I'd really like your input.

 

Hydra Dominatus!

[adreal]

I have been playing with havocs as a main core of my army, 2 units of 5 plasma and 1 unit of 5 melta, supported by a lord they wreck most of what they come up against.

 

I have mine in rhinos (due to the index being a index) and I don't see that changing much tbh

 

I support them with two contemptors, a sicaran, lascannon havoc squad and some sorcerers, works fairly well for me

[TheMelancholic]

I have been playing with havocs as a main core of my army, 2 units of 5 plasma and 1 unit of 5 melta, supported by a lord they wreck most of what they come up against.

 

I have mine in rhinos (due to the index being a index) and I don't see that changing much tbh

 

I support them with two contemptors, a sicaran, lascannon havoc squad and some sorcerers, works fairly well for me

 

Do you find that the three havoc squads plus fire support is enough of a core to take most lists? Obviously it's a hefty amount of firepower, but havocs are just marines at the end of the day and I fear that 15-20 special weapons dudes is pretty easy for an opponent to take out.

 

To me, Alpha Legion (both in fluff and gameplay) is all about teams of specialist operators killing priority targets with extreme prejudice. The infiltrate stratagem is perfect for this and allows you to be within effective range from the very start of the game.

 

That said, I feel like infiltrating special weapons works well against elite lists where plasma/melta is needed to take out hard targets but it's very much a glass canon army. Elite opponents are small in number and each loss hurts them more, allowing our special weapon teams to really cripple them out the gate. Against something like Orks or Nids, there are going to be swarms and swarms of cheap infantry which are the primary threat. Special weapon squads simply can't chew through 30+ guys no matter how well they roll.

 

My real question is, how do we deal with huge hordes in a legion that seems to favor glass cannons?

[adreal]

Granted it wasn't a tooled ork list, and I did loose cause stompas hurt, but with combat, combined shooting, and some luck I managed to thin down all 90 orks and take out ghaz

[oreaper84]

I am considering the hidden gem that i honestly overlooked like 7 times from the book....5 mans CSM squads can take a heavy!!! I the loyalist dogs have had this for a while, but i thought that this might play perfectly into our trait. I am in an escalation league and we just jumped up to 1250. Since this is the 1st week of the new Dex i am excited to try some stuff out. Mt list looks like this.

 

Deamon Prince (wings, 2x talons, bolter)

Lord (Hydra blade, ppistol)

30 cultists (3x flamer) this unit is a star thanks to infiltrate and regen-aport strats

5 CSM (auto cannon, psword)

5 CSM (missle. psword)

6 chosen (combi-flamer, 5x flamer, pfist)

pred annihilator

Bale drake

rhino

 

Seems a bit mixed bag....but luckily we are the leagon of tactical flexability.....thoughts?

[shaun03]

Reaper quad bolters are one top unit in FW idex cheap and when 3 to unit putting out 36 shots, that's more than enough strip wounds off just about anything. I looking at plausibility of adding 2x3 of them for back field support 72 shots. AV 14 and flyers can be threatened by them, not the best way to target them but if you need to in pinch it's not pissing in to the wind too bad.

[TheMelancholic]

I am considering the hidden gem that i honestly overlooked like 7 times from the book....5 mans CSM squads can take a heavy!!! I the loyalist dogs have had this for a while, but i thought that this might play perfectly into our trait. I am in an escalation league and we just jumped up to 1250. Since this is the 1st week of the new Dex i am excited to try some stuff out. Mt list looks like this.

 

Deamon Prince (wings, 2x talons, bolter)

Lord (Hydra blade, ppistol)

30 cultists (3x flamer) this unit is a star thanks to infiltrate and regen-aport strats

5 CSM (auto cannon, psword)

5 CSM (missle. psword)

6 chosen (combi-flamer, 5x flamer, pfist)

pred annihilator

Bale drake

rhino

 

Seems a bit mixed bag....but luckily we are the leagon of tactical flexability.....thoughts?

 

I wouldn't worry about being super competitive in an escalation league. It'd be very hard for anyone to be really cheesy if they're building up one or two units per week.

 

As for your list...it seems solid enough. The two 5 man CSM squads with a heavy weapon seem a bit weird though. They don't seem large enough to be a threat on their own but they could be small enough to camp a home objective and provide fire support for the rest of your guys. Power swords also seem like a bit of a waste of points on a unit that isn't meant to be in assaults so I'd drop those unless you've already modelled the champ to have one.

 

I approve of the Bale Drake and winged DP, they make a nasty tag team and can be a real pain in the opponents ass to deal with. Two talons is the best loadout by far and I'd take diabolic strength and warptime for powers, just to help the DP get stuck in faster and make him that much more deadly when he's in the thick of it. Also keep in mind that your DP can't be shot at unless he's the closest unit, so some clever positioning can all but ensure he gets into the fray at full strength.

 

I'd swap the annihilator for havocs honestly. The havocs can take advantage of the Alpha Legion's -1 to hit trait and can use some of the better stratagems (Veterans of the Long War, Endless Cacophony, Flak Missiles) while the Predator gets...killshot, which it can't even use. The annihilator is a sturdier platform, but also one that degrades after being shot at, meaning that you are still seeing a loss in firepower as it takes damage.

 

A big blob of cultists are always fun and have great synergy with Alpha Legion. I'd recommend infiltrating them halfway up the board and using them as a large buffer to create space and deny deepstrikes. When the enemy moves forward to kill them you can use tide of traitors to "nothin personnel" backline shooty units, forcing the foe to split their attention. They also make great cover for your DP

 

Flamer chosen (in a rhino with the lord I'm presuming?) are a good choice for objective grabbing and capable in both melee and range. The lord with Blade of the Hydra is cheap as chips but doesn't really add anything to the unit. Also make sure you have a CP to burn (heheh) on Veterans of the Long War and make those autohits wound on 3+!

 

edit: Perhaps consider swapping flamers to combi-flamers on the chosen if you have the points. They are flat out superior (there's literally no downside to firing both the flamer and bolter) and they can actually take advantage of the Lord's re-roll to hit aura.

[Mister Feral]

It would seem to be a Legion keyword, though I'd call it a renegade warband. Except renegade is its own Legion keyword. So

 

Yeah... not really the most elegant system at times.

I can't say I understand why they'd make the separate distinction between their original Legion and their current warband, since the Faithless are still Alpha Legion through and through.

[TheMelancholic]

 

It would seem to be a Legion keyword, though I'd call it a renegade warband. Except renegade is its own Legion keyword. So

 

Yeah... not really the most elegant system at times.

I can't say I understand why they'd make the separate distinction between their original Legion and their current warband, since the Faithless are still Alpha Legion through and through.

 

 

FW has always been a bit janky with the rules. Their other special characters (Zhufor and Necroisis) have got similar buffs that they can only give to non-existent factions. The only way I think you could make use of them is by running your army as THE FAITHLESS or SKULLTAKERS and maybe use Renegade rules? Still stupid to the extreme and hopefully FAQ'ed.

 

If in the future Arkos is allowed to buff AL instead of "The Faithless" then I'm certain he'll be a mainstay in most Alpha Legion lists. His CP and free infiltrate are amazingly efficient in an army like ours (AL needs them CPs man...)