++ The Harrowing - An Alpha Legion Community ++

[Brom MKIV]

 

 

It would seem to be a Legion keyword, though I'd call it a renegade warband. Except renegade is its own Legion keyword. So

 

Yeah... not really the most elegant system at times.

I can't say I understand why they'd make the separate distinction between their original Legion and their current warband, since the Faithless are still Alpha Legion through and through.

 

 

FW has always been a bit janky with the rules. Their other special characters (Zhufor and Necroisis) have got similar buffs that they can only give to non-existent factions. The only way I think you could make use of them is by running your army as THE FAITHLESS or SKULLTAKERS and maybe use Renegade rules? Still stupid to the extreme and hopefully FAQ'ed.

 

If in the future Arkos is allowed to buff AL instead of "The Faithless" then I'm certain he'll be a mainstay in most Alpha Legion lists. His CP and free infiltrate are amazingly efficient in an army like ours (AL needs them CPs man...)

 

 

I'd get it if FW used a combined keyword for all the Heretic Astartes warbands on Vraks, such as "Defenders of Vraks" or something catchier. That way they could have multiple warbands synergising together under the same <LEGION> keyword.

 

Alternately, have Arkos automatically give the FAITHLESS keyword to all ALPHA LEGION in the same Detachment.

 

I apologize for being late to the party but I was infiltrated DEEP under cover.. on the rock heh heh. seriously its been years since my last visit.

 

Anyway is there some real issue here or just annoying that FW missed the connection?

Correct me if I'm mistaken but heres how I've been playing it:

 

The faithless is basically a successor to alpha legion -> use AL legion trait etc. No?

So in essence I am playing AL using arkos but on my excel sheet it says 'the faithless'.

 

What am I missing here?

[Extropian]

The successor rule isn't in the Chaos Codex is it? I think that's he issue.

 

Personally, I'd be very happy to let an opponent play them that way but maybe not all would.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The successor rule is not in the codex, but neither does it say that you must use the specific Trait-named Legion to benefit from the Legion trait.  In fact, if you look at Huron's datasheet, he has RED CORSAIRS for his Legion keyword but benefits from the Renegades Trait because the text tells us so.  So if we can name our warbands without needing to actually take the ALPHA LEGION keyword, then Arkos is a fantastic choice: take the FAITHLESS as your Legion keyword and use the Alpha Legion Trait.  If anyone calls you out on it, show them that Huron takes RED CORSAIRS as the Legion keyword but uses the Renegades Trait.

[Extropian]

As I said, all good with me. I feel that's he way it's supposed to work anyway tbh.

[micahwc]

The Faithless are not even a successor. They are an Alpha Legion warband. They are still very much a part of the Alpha Legion in everything except keywords.

[Khornestar]

I wouldn't put it past FW to make you choose between Arkos's buffs and Alpha Legion traits/etc., but perhaps that's overly cynical and it's just an oversight. Though, Zhufor was corrected in the same manner Arkos "should" have been, not sure why they didn't do both. They don't answer facebook queries the way GW does, so who knows?

[cmstea0]

Hey guys, can you check me on this tactic:

 

1. Outfit an elites choice with TEN termies with icon of slaanesh, powerfists and chainfists, and combi-plas and meltas.

2. "Forward Operative" most of them onto the opponent's biggest, meanest unit at game start, along with an Exalted Champion.  Leave a few strung out towards the start point.

3. Get lucky and go first.

4. Move Termies and Champ up.

5. Deep strike either a jet pack or termie sorceror to within 3" of the rearmost termie.

6. Cast Prescience and Diabolic Strength on the Termies.

7. Termies shoot the piss out of everything except the biggest, meanest unit.

8. Fire off "Endless Cacophony" and repeat step 7 for the lulz.

9. Charge the opponent's nasty unit.  Should only need to roll a 4 since the termies moved up.  Due to "pile on" most Termies should make contact.  

10. Up to 31 power and chainfist attacks at Strength 12 (Diabolic Strength buffs strength and adds attacks), with DTFE on a 4+ thanks for Prescience + Icon

11. Reroll failed wound rolls thanks to Exalted Champion Aura.

12. Profit?

[micahwc]

Diabolic Strength doesn't effect units, only an individual. I had the idea to do it with 40 cultists and was corrected. You could save points by skipping the exalted champion and using Veterans of the long War for 1 command point to re-roll your wounds.

 

Since Diabolic Strength only works on one model, I'd suggest using Delightful Agonies instead to give them all a 5+ FNP roll.

[cmstea0]

Ah! Good catch.  Thanks for that.  Bummer, although a bunch of Strength 8 power fist attacks is still no joke.  

 

My 1500 build has a battalion and a vanguard, so i need 3 HQs.  I'm running an Exalted Champ w Hydra blade relic with the Termies, a jet pack sorceror to deep strike and buff the termies, and a Lord in the back to give re-rolls to my long range shooty squads.  

 

That 5 up FNP will be helpful too.  My real concern is that the strategy really hinges on getting the first turn.  with 9 units in my list that's a real toss up.  Forward Operative is really great if you go first and really really bad if you don't.

[mika_angelus]

Infiltrate happens after the seize roll so you can always put them in a safe spot if the opponent gets the first turn.

 

But if you are taking terminators why do you want to infiltrate them in the first place? Just deep strike and use warp time.

[cmstea0]

i currently use Deep Strike and Warp Time but F.O. strategem is less risky, and that frees up a psychic spell.  Prescience is really important for PFists, especially since they won't have a Lord nearby to give rerolls on 1s or keep them from exploding when they overcharge plasma.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Plus, Warp Time is fickle.  You could fail the psychic test, or it could be denied.  Forward Operatives can't be countered.

[mika_angelus]

Are we still talking about that almost 600 point terminator unit?

 

Sure, F.O. is the most reliable way to deploy them. Thing is you don't know who starts the game when you declare it. So it may often happen (especially with the new rule who goes first) that you don't have the first turn.

A unit that costs 600 points (or even a smaller one for 250-300) and relatively short range/combat needs to have the alpha strike. With deep strike you will always have the alpha strike, and you can use your CP for veterans stratagem, or the slaanesh one.

 

On a different note, what do you guys think about a null deploy list?

[Panzer]

Are we still talking about that almost 600 point terminator unit?

 

Sure, F.O. is the most reliable way to deploy them. Thing is you don't know who starts the game when you declare it. So it may often happen (especially with the new rule who goes first) that you don't have the first turn.

A unit that costs 600 points (or even a smaller one for 250-300) and relatively short range/combat needs to have the alpha strike. With deep strike you will always have the alpha strike, and you can use your CP for veterans stratagem, or the slaanesh one.

 

On a different note, what do you guys think about a null deploy list?

Null deploy? Not in matched play, my friend. You have to have at least half of your units deployed regularly. ;)

 

Also to the 600p unit...you know what you'll start seeing if you keep having success with such a unit? T'au with interceptor on everything. Have fun dropping within 12" then. ^^

[mika_angelus]

Null deploy? Not in matched play, my friend. You have to have at least half of your units deployed regularly. ;)

 

 

Infiltrate + deepstrike.

It would eat trough most of the CP even before the game starts, but it could be an interesting concept.

[Panzer]

Heh, okay that would work but I don't think it's worth it. Especially since you often want the enemy to leave his deployment zone so your reserves have enough space to arrive behind his lines. ^^

[mika_angelus]

After re-reading all the rules yesterday I don't think it works sadly. It looks like infiltrate doesn't count for unit on the battlefield in matched play.

[micahwc]

I think the infiltrate would work better for a unit of plasma chosen or plasma havoks and a librarian to cast prescience on them. Only 2 command points to drop both. With a max unit of plasma chosen you could get a lot of shots off. And then if you could use endless cacophony if you wanted to and fire again.

[Sception]

unless you mean to also assault with that sorcerer, you could just give him a jump pack or terminator armor and save a command point.

[Commissar K.]

What are your guys thoughts on the potential best unit of Alpha Legion (with Legion Trait) with Nurgle Keyword supported by Nurgle Keyword Psyker that casts Miasma of Pestilence on them? That -2 to hit provided your opponent is 12" away seems to be a great choice in theory for Havocs or perhaps another unit? 

[Dallas Drake]

What are your guys thoughts on the potential best unit of Alpha Legion (with Legion Trait) with Nurgle Keyword supported by Nurgle Keyword Psyker that casts Miasma of Pestilence on them? That -2 to hit provided your opponent is 12" away seems to be a great choice in theory for Havocs or perhaps another unit? 

 

Dare I say it but I'm not a fan of Nurgle here. You have to cast Miasma and it only affects one unit. ML/Las Havocs is the best non daemon option I guess.

 

I like my Daemons so I'm going Tzeetnch Alpha Legion Decimators with butcher cannons sat with the Changeling, 3 x 3 Tzeentch Oblits 9" away but still within 24" of the enemy (disrupting DS dops too).

 

10 x Slaanesh Chosen with 5 x combi-bolters, 1 x heavy bolter and 4 x bolters (62 shots with shoot twice) then charge. Take that 50 man conscript blobs!

 

That's what I'm doing anyway...

[micahwc]

I think all  three chaos god specific psychic powers are going to give you the best bang for your buck on large units. So large cultists blobs, large groups of cult troops, etc. I'm leaning towards the Slanesh power being the best of the three.

 

+1 to your invulnerable save is nice for characters who already have a invulnerable save,. A 5+ invulnerable can be nice, but I think its better used on something with an invulnerable save already. If you know a unit is going to get shot/attacked by something that will ignore their saves than it could be worth taking. Where it gets great is when you cast it on a chaos lord for a 3+ invulnerable save, or Kharne or Abbadon, or a daemon prince for a 4+ invulnerable save.

 

-1 to hit is nice, nothing wrong with it. Alpha Legion already have access to it on most things. Stacking it to get a -2 sounds like a great idea for lascannon havoks or a hellbrute/hellforged dreadnought of choice. This could certainly be a good contender, as you don't have to worry about weapons that can't hit you.

 

5+ FNP however seems the best to me at this time. This is why. If your character already has an invulnerable save it will get that save, and if that fails, they will still get a 1/3 chance to ignore wounds. FNP works on mortal wounds. So when Magnus inflicts 5 mortal smite wounds on your unit, you actually get a chance to mitigate damage. It's better for protecting against psychic attacks which wouldn't care about a -1 to hit.

 

I guess all 3 are situational and dependent on what you want to do with your army. If you have a gun line the nurgle power might be best for you, especially if you have a hellforged dreadnought firing at long range. If you are facing a strong psychic opponent you may be better off with the FNP. And if you want to buff a character to make them hard to remove than improving their invulnerable save is a good way to do it.

 

Edit: as far as the best unit to cast Miasma on, Hellforged Deredeo Dreadnought, hands down. Butcher Cannon Array, Twin Heavy Bolter, and Greater Havok Launcher. Use Hellfire Veil every turn, don't worry about moving as you are basically an emplacement now. -2 to hit with Miasma and the Alpha Legion trait.  Also grants a 5+ invulnerable to your havoks you put right next to him. For added fun spend 1 command point on Fire Frenzy to fire twice at the nearest unit. You will average 40 shots per turn you do this.

[Sception]

apart from mortal wounds, the tzeentch spell is about the same as the slaanesh one on cultists.  If you're running big cultist blobs, and want to keep the slaanesh spell available for a more elite power or terminator armored unit, it's something to consider.

 

Agree on dorito as the ideal target for the nurgle power.  That or a leviathan.  For other legions maybe a big transport like a spartan, but the XX don't really need to spend so many points on delivery.

[Brother Aiwass]

Sadly «hellbrute» in the fire frenzy strat isn't a keyword since is not in bold caps (until faq'd).

[shaun03]

Played few games, and tried out few options out, cultist die in droves nothing new using the CP to bring them back to life is ok distraction. Worked well in one match but once the word is out, the next game they weren't targeted as much as no one wants to waste a turn dealing with them and having them pop back up. Looking at way to make them more of a threat. Bloodletters are ok for cheap drop and screen supported with a spawn they can function like a speed bump, agsint shooting list, plaguebearers might be better option as harder to hit.  I'm thinking deamonetts might be better than bloodletters for the fact there going to hit first, but as of now all daemon type aren't what they use to be, but there a lot cheaper so have a place.

 

Forgetting to use CP is big problem i had, in few games it was the last turn and more CP than I could use, even in games i was winning. So need to make mental reminder to use them. 

 

Heavy weapons, so far HB and ML seem to be offering the most in the games, tried out lascannon, are 50/50, potential they can shine, but in both games the dice were not on my side.

3 man bike sq, keep it cheap just adding PF to sgt, and use them support spawns and daemons, it shame we cant use attack bikes.