++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[MoGuy]

What do people think would be the best support choices for Thousand sons as the sorcerers are now more likely to blow themselves up then actually do anything?

What weapons do people think would be best for dreads ect?

I think that's a bit too negative of a view on the Sorcerers. They merely shifted over from being good at CQC and magic to being more of a support character that buffs guys around themselves and helps out with magic. We got Lords now if we want to bring the hurt in melee.

 

For support choices it depends on what you want. In 7th edition I always took a pair of Maulerfiends. I think taking a Mauler/Forgefiend is also good now as they help us out against vehicles/walkers. Otherwise I would go for vanilla Terminators with fists and Combi-Melters if you want to have something against units with good armour or vehicles with lots of HP. For dealing with hordes I would either go with Flamer-Raptors or Termis with Combi-Flamers and some LCs.

[Xenith]

I'm pretty sure a roll of one on the dice still constitutes a failure.

 

Yes, a roll of a 1 is a fail on a 2+ save, but rubrics can never roll a 1 vs D1 weapons as you add 1 to the dice roll, giving a range of 2 - 7. 

 

Really liking the look of TSons this edition. Bolters are powerful, combines with a chaos lord rerolling 1s to hit. Seems good. 

[Scammel]

Unfortunately, the rules for saves are clear - a 1 is a failure regardless of modifiers.

[Paladin777]

I'm actually really looking forward to trying out my defiler again! At 14W he should actually be pretty surviveable!!

[Raibaru]

I'm looking at Magnus and his Fly ability and I can't see this adding survivability to him aside from having hit and run. Can anyone confirm if having fly make you harder to hit or not. I am trying to figure out what the point of Fly is aside from leaving CC and being able to fire.

 

Fly just gives you the ability to avoid terrain. Airborne is what gives you the defensive benefits but Magnus doesn't have that. For some reason the Helldrakes don't either though. 

[Paladin777]

Fly also gives you the ability to leave combat without penalty.

[Paladin777]

Question for you guys, is there any reason at all at this time to use a regular sorcerer (excluding termies armor, bike, etc) over the exalted sorcerer other than his melee weapon? If so, I can't find one.

[Prot]

Just to be clear, there's still a penalty for units leaving CC even if they have fly, but they can still shoot normally.

 

So Fly is really weird to give to Magnus. He got a few more wounds making him very target-able and with no "jink" or hard to hit rule, he's very, VERY subsceptible to poison rounds and the like of. It's just worth noting that his survivability is looking turned down a lot.

 

 

Question for you guys, is there any reason at all at this time to use a regular sorcerer (excluding termies armor, bike, etc) over the exalted sorcerer other than his melee weapon? If so, I can't find one.

 

I've looked at that a few times myself, I just don't see why you'd do it unless you absolutely had to have an axe? Not sure but perhaps this is a bone thrown to Thousand Sons saying, 'here's a decent Sorc for 4 points cheaper, but he can't take a bike , Jump pack, or axe."

[Paladin777]

Agreed with the survivability of Magnus. With a lot of weapons capable of removing a lot of wounds, 14 doesn't seem like that much for a super high priority target like he's likely to be. That being said, it looks like he would hit like a truck in combat anyway and has no drawback for being there. (7x Str 16 attacks!!!!!!!??!?!!)

I'm really quite ok with the exalted sorc as well. He's really a lot better than the regular one in every way outside of some of the options.

[Archaeinox]

TS vs. Death Guard starter and Typhus instead of the lord guy.

 

-I have underestimated the power of warp flamers. Move rhino 12+d6" and next turn hop out 3, move 5, ensure that flamers are in range while still rapid firing another target if you want and of course the Soulreaper hits distance targets. In this game, Flamers on poxwalkers, bolters on Bloat Drone, Soulreaper on Plague Marines at a distance. It was about 900pts give or take and 45 Power Level ish.

 

-Plague Marines on foot no good. Need Rhino. But it's nice to take the 5+ roll against Mortal Wounds. It worked A LOT in the game. 

 

-Speaking of Mortal Wounds, "mini smite" from Scarab Occult and Rubric Marines did some work.

 

-Speaking of Psychic Powers, Ahriman's bonus is great. I would have failed powers at least once a turn attempting three of them, and the +1 bonus saved me.

 

-The Contagion powers are great.. But being able to stop them at +1 is better. You will want Ahriman or Magnus in a list.

 

-I need a Disc sorcerer for Warp Time in bigger games since it's only 3".

 

-Exalted is the way to go. WS & BS 2+ over the Sorcerer's 3+.. It's great.

 

-We need cheap bubble wrap. I wanted the Scarabs to walk around and do work but they had to extend their formation a bit to prevent Typhus from being able to teleport in and charge Ahriman.. That massive threat made my change my thinking. 

 

-Speaking of teleport, I will always be taking advantage of that rule on at least one unit of Scarabs in bigger games. Previously it was a HUGE no-no because I am not a fan of spending all this money just to have my crap sit on the sidelines until turn 4 because of bad rolls.

 

I would like to say that while I will personally be running 10 man Rubric Marine units most of the time, it is very tempting to run 9man and stick an exalted in the Rhino with them. 

 

After seeing it in play, I'm not much interested in giving up the re-roll failed Invuls of 1 because clever players will be isolating our sorcerers and you will be taking hits with the heavy stuff. 5++ re-rolling ones would have been meh in 7th ed on exalted but now with 5 wounds that changes things. 

 

At the end of turn 5 there was Ahriman, Typhus, the Bloat Drone and a Rhino remaining. Everything was down to 2 wounds except the Rhino, which was at 8. There was no reason for the Death Guard to really target it once it did its job. The starter set does not have efficient anti-tank.

 

If you have any questions about the game, ask away. I had a lot of fun

[Sonoftherubric21]

uhhhh Gents; Magnus is 18 wounds. NOT 14. 

The DEFILER is 14. Magnus is 18, staring at the sheet. 

[Skerr]

Not to mention Magnus might have a nice menagerie of chaos spawn after a round or two of combat to sic on foes...

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

Question for you guys, is there any reason at all at this time to use a regular sorcerer (excluding termies armor, bike, etc) over the exalted sorcerer other than his melee weapon? If so, I can't find one.

 

I've looked at that a few times myself, I just don't see why you'd do it unless you absolutely had to have an axe? Not sure but perhaps this is a bone thrown to Thousand Sons saying, 'here's a decent Sorc for 4 points cheaper, but he can't take a bike , Jump pack, or axe."

This! 

 

I have been having issues with that myself; barring TERMINATOR armor being the only thought, every other instinct in me is "Exalted, all day, errryday" 

 

better WS, 1 more wound, a natural buff to itself and others for invul saves.....Its like if you play 1k sons there's no real choice here. it should almost automatically be the Exalted barring a need for Terminator sorcerer. (deepstrike / combi bolter combo being a half decent option as well if need be) 

[Skerr]

Great write up Archie!  Thanks for sharing your bat rep.  Who won? lol.

 

Guys I am really considering buying Magnus now to add to my army.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Not to mention Magnus might have a nice menagerie of chaos spawn after a round or two of combat to sic on foes...

 

Does it even work in Matched play without spending points pre-game on reinforcement reserves?  A worthy question for FAQ because in Sigmar thats how it works; you need to pay points for it. 

[Paladin777]

My bad, sorry about that. that makes it a bit better as long as your opponent doesn't get some lucky lascannon rolls (or uses a strategem to reroll...)

[Zodd1888]

Magnus is, I believe, going to be moving into melee more to protect himself.

 

Magnus assaults into combat to protect himself from shooting attacks, flys out to pop off Psychic powers, and assaults back for insulation from fire. Seems viable to me, especially if spawn pop off.

 

Edit: I really hope you don't have to pay points for this. Paying points for a chance at not getting a Spawn? Lame!

[Paladin777]

I know I was kinda complaining about the way psychic powers were changed, but after having thought about it for a while, I'm really pretty ok with it. Ahriman and Magnus seem to be some of the best casters and our powers to choose from are still pretty good! I'm also pretty happy that they made Ahriman a better psyker than either tigurius or mephiston, though I would have liked Magnus to have some sort of built-in perils protection. I guess that's what stratagems are for.

[Zodd1888]

As is I'd still say we, along with most other legions, are an incomplete force. The big difference in editions though is that at this point I'm fairly certain we're playable. We don't have legion benefits or specific disciplines yet, and may be limited in our options for a core TSons army, but we can still roll with it and be successful to greater degree than the past.

 

That all said, needs more mind bullets.

[Paladin777]

Agreed on all counts.

[Prot]

Arch, what was your thought on the actual Death Guard as an army? I feel like on paper the Thousand Sons have a good rule set compared to them.

 

I think with your little batrep and my own Tzaangor / Planet of Sorcerer infatuation, I am leaning towards lots of Goats.

 

Did you perils? (Just curious how bat it was).

 

I am playing a 1000 points (ironic?) tomorrow. :)

 

Ahriman + Scarabs + 10 man Rubrics + Exalted (I'm using Disks though.) + Tzaangors and perhaps Forgefiend if I can squeeze it in (they look great to me.)

[Archaeinox]

I think, assuming you aren't taking any outside "generic" units such as predators and the like, that Thousand Sons have the upper hand with their utility and damage output. However, the basic Lord of Contagion alone makes me want to make a list.

 

T5 makes a bigger deal in this edition than the last but the real winner is being able to stop any wound on a 5+. Poxwalkers were making saves like crazy. Dice rolls yes, but the potential for it to happen on a cheap unit that doesnt flee is incredible.

 

The plague sorcerer guy rolled double-1s and took 3 wounds but stopped 2 with his 5+ ignore.

 

Ahriman rolled double 6s and took 3. In Matched Play I would use a Command Re-roll for one of the 6s because even if you roll a 1 on the re-roll, our highest charge power is Prescience (7) AND Ahriman would make it an 8, thus harder to stop.. So command points will help our survivability on the casters who chunk lots of spells. Remember, it's limited to one C.R. per phase in Matched Play, so don't forget to re-roll that critical To Hit or something in the Fight Phase.

 

Please let me know how the forgefiend and the tzaangors do. I wanted to try and get one of the first 8th ed painted batreps up this weekend but I need to let the players have a go at the books and not be selfish.

 

Oh speaking of Command Re-rolls. Plaguewind went off on the Rubric Marines and he rolled 10 dice and got five 6s. Guess what happened when I rolled a morale test at the end of the turn? 

 

Don't forget about Command Re-rolls.

[Prot]

I think, assuming you aren't taking any outside "generic" units such as predators and the like, that Thousand Sons have the upper hand with their utility and damage output. However, the basic Lord of Contagion alone makes me want to make a list.

 

 

That's funny to hear. That's exactly how I felt when I read it. Truthfully the Thousand Sons models are just so good.. the background, etc. My problem is I'm almost done everything I have and keep looking at the DG because they seem like a fun infantry army, but that Lord of Contagion is really cool.

 

 

T5 makes a bigger deal in this edition than the last but the real winner is being able to stop any wound on a 5+. Poxwalkers were making saves like crazy. Dice rolls yes, but the potential for it to happen on a cheap unit that doesnt flee is incredible.

 

 

See I was very pro-T5. I think it's very, very big in a game with lots of anti-infantry, and CC at base Strength. Add that in with a super FnP that is immune to the fallbacks of 7th edition (double Strength, Force, etc) and it's a little better in some ways.

 

 

The plague sorcerer guy rolled double-1s and took 3 wounds but stopped 2 with his 5+ ignore.

 

Ahriman rolled double 6s and took 3. In Matched Play I would use a Command Re-roll for one of the 6s because even if you roll a 1 on the re-roll, our highest charge power is Prescience (7) AND Ahriman would make it an 8, thus harder to stop.. So command points will help our survivability on the casters who chunk lots of spells. Remember, it's limited to one C.R. per phase in Matched Play, so don't forget to re-roll that critical To Hit or something in the Fight Phase.

 

Please let me know how the forgefiend and the tzaangors do. I wanted to try and get one of the first 8th ed painted batreps up this weekend but I need to let the players have a go at the books and not be selfish.

 

Oh speaking of Command Re-rolls. Plaguewind went off on the Rubric Marines and he rolled 10 dice and got five 6s. Guess what happened when I rolled a morale test at the end of the turn?

 

Sorry.. .back to Thousand Sons! That Perils is what really scares me. I wish Thousand Sons got at least an 'ignore' save for Perils. It's going to be brutal especially without Brotherhood of Psykers. BUT thank you for pointing out Command Points can mitigate Perils (but what a cruddy way to use Command Points. :) )

 

Ouch on that Plaguewind!

 

BTW: I think Moral is so nasty this edition. I kept re-reading it, and it appears both sides take the Moral tests each turn if any models are removed. There is no 'I win CC so I don't test' anymore which is fascinating. "And they Shall Know No Fear" just got better.

 

I've been thinking of Spawns just for this reason alone. Spawns 'N' Goats. Sounds like a bad Disney movie, but I may have to try it.

[Skerr]

Not to mention Magnus might have a nice menagerie of chaos spawn after a round or two of combat to sic on foes...

 

Does it even work in Matched play without spending points pre-game on reinforcement reserves?  A worthy question for FAQ because in Sigmar thats how it works; you need to pay points for it.

[/quote

 

 

Not to mention Magnus might have a nice menagerie of chaos spawn after a round or two of combat to sic on foes...

 

Does it even work in Matched play without spending points pre-game on reinforcement reserves?  A worthy question for FAQ because in Sigmar thats how it works; you need to pay points for it.

 

I will need to double check though I thought I saw that any mortal wounds or 6s caused said opponent to turn to chaos spawn. If so it is to random to put points away for it. At work and cannot check.

[Paladin777]

The blade of Magnus says you get a spawn if you destroy a character with it.