++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Paladin777]

I think that the glaring absence of special rules specific to the individual legions gives me hope for a eighth edition version of traitor legions. Something else that indicates this to me (though to a lesser extent) is the fact that there is absolutely zero benefit to taking the Lord of the contagion as opposed to Typhus the traveller despite Games workshop showcasing the model. There's got to be something more to it especially after games workshop has said that chaos is going to be on the front burner for a while at least.

 

The Black staff is included in his points cost. Special characters have their Wargear included, it says so on the chart.

[1000 Sons]

Looking at the points costs, I can't see the Black staff of Ahriman under the points listings, so is it included in his base cost? I thought wargear the stuff the model came with, had to be paid for.

Look under war gear, most equipment is still included with the unit.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Ahh fair. In regards to the distinction of armies, I'd been thinking of building up a traitor Slaaneshi White Scars/Noise marine force to use an allied detachment to my Thousand sons, in part due to the fluff and in part after the Slaaneshmas special the idea of Ahriman and Lucius running around causing chaos being quite funny.
Would it still be possible to do this?

[Paladin777]

Most units points costs are without equipment but special characters listed points cost are. It says at the top of their respective tables.

[Zodd1888]

 

 

I can't figure out when you'd go Forge Fiend over Predator. Difference of very few points between ectoplasma Fiend and a Disco Pred.

 

Any ideas out there? Only think I can think of is the invuln?

#Whynotboth?

 

Id take either or, the dakka fiend and the disco pred are both good. Id be tempted to run both.

0_o that literally didn't cross my mind. I guess I'm stuck on 7th with having to bring double Daemon Engines to het decent mileage out of them. Disco Pred and Plasma Fiend actually sounds like a solid combo.

[Paladin777]

What is the load out of a disco pred? I've never heard it called that.

[Zodd1888]

Lots of Lascannons. I think it clocks in at around 200 or so with the side sponsons and twin on top. The Plasmafiend clocks in at around 200 also.

 

4 shots of 1d6 damage ST9 -3 Rend from Disco without combi or havoc. 3d3 shots of 1d3 damage ST7 -3 Rend on Plasmafiend. They're both pretty potent, but I feel like the Plasmafiend is pretty swingy. They definetly serve different purposes.

[Paladin777]

I dunno, given the better accuracy of the pred I would probably give that one the nod. If I was to use the fiend it would probably be for the hades autocannons, though giving it a plasma face does sound like it might be a good idea.

[Zodd1888]

I think doing the face is always the best option but I don't know if I'd ever go Hades for the 8/-1. That weapon seems geared towards taking out Rhinos/Drakes or infantry and I feel like our bolters have that covered. I won't know until I play more games or get some data regarding weapons, but the Disco Predator seems to be the best armoured support option even with consideration.

[MoGuy]

About the Tzaangors again:

 

I think their loadout (Tzaangor Blades vs. CS + Pistol) heavily depends on your local meta. I fight Orks and Space Marines the most. So against Orks I would probably go for the Chainswords and Pistols as most of their units only have 6+ armour. Against MEQs I would go for the Blades to reduce their armour to 4+. 

 

I'm also thinking about putting a Chaos Lord on a Disc and just fly him up the table with the Goats. He lets them re-roll 1s and you can give him Claws etc. so that he can help out against tougher targets. 

[Prot]

Is your choice of pistols over blades due to wanting the extra chainsword attack and ability to shoot in cc?

 

I'm still on the fence how I am going weaponize mine.

 

I have finished 2 x 10 man CC squads. (I Love the CC build). If you add in the Instrument you get +1 to Advance and Charges.

 

I needed an ebay order for bodies. I anticipate Tzaangors will go up a bit in price so I found a bits seller as I already have tons of the left over chainsword + Pistol arms.

 

I am doing 10 of the pistol variants because those ones will surround Ahriman and may have a need to overwatch/shoot deep strikers etc. But I anticipate my bigger issue will be close combat first turn charges, etc. So that's why I prefer the CC Tzangors to move up and support.... support Scarabs, and screen Ahriman/Forgefiend etc.

[Skerr]

 

Is your choice of pistols over blades due to wanting the extra chainsword attack and ability to shoot in cc?

 

I'm still on the fence how I am going weaponize mine.

 

I have finished 2 x 10 man CC squads. (I Love the CC build). If you add in the Instrument you get +1 to Advance and Charges.

 

I needed an ebay order for bodies. I anticipate Tzaangors will go up a bit in price so I found a bits seller as I already have tons of the left over chainsword + Pistol arms.

 

I am doing 10 of the pistol variants because those ones will surround Ahriman and may have a need to overwatch/shoot deep strikers etc. But I anticipate my bigger issue will be close combat first turn charges, etc. So that's why I prefer the CC Tzangors to move up and support.... support Scarabs, and screen Ahriman/Forgefiend etc.

 

 

 

Those are good insights, had not thought of overwatch bubble wrap.

 

Also good points on loadouts for TEQs and MEQs.

 

Back to our spell list and upcoming goodies makes me think of a few possibilities.

 

New codex means new spells/ rules (as we all hope).  However getting a unique spell list would have been easy.  It was there and just about all other factions have theirs so it is strange we got a generic one.  They took the two main spells i wanted from our 7th list and gave them to Deamons for some reason but I still think it would have been easy to give us one.

 

This makes me think that we either

 

1. Get new lore in conjunction with a big step forward and/ or evolvement of the psychic phase in 8th.  Not sure what that would be, though any example of expanded overall rules would fit.

2.  We may be getting expanded rules but keep the generic Dark Herticus list only and be content that our distinction of being psychically gifted is that we have a generic smiter/ denyer in each marine built in to the squad.  As unsexy as that sounds it does demonstrate kson being psychically gifted.  If that's the case I guess there is a lot of Dust on huge sections of scrolls in our libraries due to lack of interest.  "In this section you will find the 3 spells most popular among Exalted Sorcerers.  For some reason no one ever checks out scroll from those other sections."

3.  We get new lore and no real rhyme or reason as to why we are on of the few factions that did not get one at launch,  Which would seem weird but a possibility.

4.  Just having additional access to Tzeentch in conjuction would have made me a happy camper.  do DG get access to Dark Hereticus also?

 

Jaws might be powerful compared to our Infernal Gaze as a balancing measure since we can cause a lot of lesser smites and get lucky with Icons.  I would have loved for infernal gaze to spawn spawn, but you gotta be of the warp for that.

[MoGuy]

 

 If you add in the Instrument you get +1 to Advance and Charges.

 

 

This is actually HUGE. Think about it! The average roll on 2D6 is 7" and you only need to get within 1" to engage an enemy unit. That means that the goats will have an average charge range of 9". Now put 10 in a Rhino, drive up the board 12", disembark 3" on your next turn, move the goats 6" and charge 9". That's 30" covered! You can even advance the Rhino as well, so you are looking at about 34". 

 

That's far enough to reach even backfield units. Experience taught me that my opponent moves at least one or two units towards my lines so getting a Turn 2 charge with the goats is very realistic. Also don't forget that you have your Command Points to get that re-roll if you really need to make that charge! I also gave my Goats the Icon of Flame just for the lulz.

 

With scatter on deepstriking/teleporting units gone, it seems to me that an actual coordinated attack is quite possible. I have five Scarab Occult Termis and two Squads of Vanilla CSM Termis, as well as 15 Raptors. Depending on the situation and enemy I'm fighting, I can now decide when and where my other squads drop down. Are there a bunch of Killa Kans comming towards my line? No problem, I have five Termis with Combi-Melters and Chainfists in reserve. 30 Boys are looking at my Gits - eh, Goats? Okay, I can drop in 10 Raptors with some Combi Flamers, Scarab Occult Termis or Vanilla Termis with LCs and Combi Flamers. 

 

All of this gives me something I've always missed when playing 7th editon: The feeling of being a general and actually conducting the symphony of war! Now I can bait enemy units to charge my stuff only to drop down some Termis behind them etc.

[Paladin777]

I definitely agree that seventh edition had too much random in it to properly conduct a "symphony of war!"

[MoGuy]

7th edition never felt like I had to use much strategy at all. It was always just a chain of reactions to what my opponent did and always in a very limited scope because only certain units were good against certain others. Example: My opponent drops a Dreadnought in a Drop Pod next to my units. In 7th edition my only viable course of action was to turn around my Discopredator and hopefully shoot it to bits, since neither my Rubrics nor my Maulerfiend could hurt it (the Dread has more Ini than the Fiend so he would probably just rip it to shreds before it can swing at him). Or I had to use Ahriman to spam Scrapcode Curse at it etc. But now I could just drop some Melter Units from reserve next to it or actually charge it with different stuff. Heck, even shooting at it with my Rubrics would be alright since they have -2AP weapons! 

 

Now it also suddenly matters where exactly I put my characters, instead of "spam Psychic Powers, then turboboost behind LOS blocking terrain, rinse and repeat" etc. 

 

On another note:

 

It kind of bothers me that the Scarab Occult Sorcerer can only cast Smite and nothing else. I mean, have they read their own fluff on the Sekmeth Conclave? They are Magnus' personal honour guard and each of them is an extremely potent psyker. Meh.

 

I hope we will get some more flavour in the psychic department when the codices drop. I fully expect to see a Tzeentch/TSons lore with 6 powers (look at AoS, once the factions got their own books they also got lores with 6 powers each), an artefact that gives us +1 to casting/denying (or a Warlord Trait of the same kind) and maybe an army special rule that helps us out a bit with casting stuff. Like only suffering perils on a double 6 instead of double 1 or 6 etc.

[Prot]

Oh I strongly believe the powers are coming. I mean they literally re-wrote every codex and added a few for this!!

 

They are saving it for codexes. Let's be honest what else can they give us? Magnus in Primaris armour?!?!

 

My concern is I never want to see us with a Psychic phase that drowns out anything else we do. While I welcome new powers I love it he idea of having functionality in our units too!

[Scammel]

Let's be honest what else can they give us? Magnus in Primaris armour?!?!

The sky darkens. Thunderclouds rumble. Crows screech.

 

And the GW Exec convenes.

[Archaeinox]

Tabling dreadnought armies left & right.. Never happened in 7th. In 2 games today, it was pretty much over by turn 3. Thanks Smite

 

"Thousand Sons suck now" - Random FB comments

[Raven1]

What else could they give us?

 

Psychic dreadnoughts....its not like FW doesnt already make one...

[Archaeinox]

Someone help me use Screamers.. They hit on 4+ and I was using them as anti-tank so that means critical damage to vehicles didn't happen. -2 AP, 2 damage is nice, but I couldn't get 'em to hit. Was using Fateweaver and 3 units of 3..

[Paladin777]

Well when the dice hate you, there's really nothing you can do…

[Sonoftherubric21]

Tabling dreadnought armies left & right.. Never happened in 7th. In 2 games today, it was pretty much over by turn 3. Thanks Smite

 

"Thousand Sons suck now" - Random FB comments

 

Tell me about it; seen a couple of random Facebook scrubs going about that, I just cant fit in that headspace.  At least last edition I understood the arguments....now? We have sternguard level basic infantry that are more survivable as troops..... Cultists +1, A giant red winged wrecking ball, and terminators that are fantastic damage output. 

 

I really dont know whats up with some people. 

[Raven1]

Becuase those vocal players 1) want to complain 2) want easy netlists that take little thought or tactics. Although Thousands Sons is a poor example because they are the best they have ever been

They sucked prior to wrath of Magnus. Got better with WoM and now have a from what I see a niche that works well in the game. Mid range firepower with good charge/counter charge hoards and can easily do multiple mortal wounds against a variety of targets.

 

I think what they mean is not Thousand Sons now suck, but the psychic phase now sucks because it's no longer a phase that can single handedly win you the game.

 

That being said I wouldn't mind a tzeentch power list. Icon of Flame roll for each model in the unit rather than the unit itself and maybe some more Tzaangor stuff. I really like the whole range of tzaangors...have i mentioned the Osiron dread yet. I think I have a quota to mention it at least once per topic.

[RapatoR]

Well, keep in mind that "Smite" might be an umbrella term for huge variety of psychic powers - some sorcerrers might "smite" by bolts of arcane energy, others by pulses of telekinetic force, or by changing the foes to insects.

So I wouldn't call it a single power, but a variety of powers with the same result - dead enemies.

[Prot]

Well I had an absolutely horrible game yesterday. 

 

While I'm not going to labour on how badly it went, I will say a few units really let me down, and the best match up I can think of is probably going to be space marines... or so it appears. I also was shocked how much -less- survivable Rubes and Scarabs are with All is Dust compared to my dearly missed 3+ invulns. 

 

I also came to realize some really, incredibly difficult Psychic hitches that I'm not sure what to do with in the future. I do know that in the future all command points will be saved for Perils.