++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Prot]

True enough. I'm hoping we get the shooting angle somehow because there's no way we will contend with GK assault.

 

Looking at Deathguard stuff though... wow... I thought at first Thousand Sons were a little too reliant on Mortal Wounds then GK came out and they easily get that award... now Deathguard! Gees, these guys fart and it's mortal wounds for days.

 

It will be very interesting to see what level of 'creativity' comes out of GW for us to handle this sort of stuff from DG and GK. (I mean without just saying Thousand Sons can do even MORE Mortal Wounds. I'm not really digging that direction)

[Grendaxe]

I know! i just read the article holy  . I haven't played against death guard but i thought they were holding their own even without traits etc.

With amount of mortal wounds they're going to get they're going to be really scary.

[Prot]

Agreed. I played a few games using my DG, but mostly against them. The T5, 3+, then 5++ gets really... frustrating after a while. lol

 

They give my (codex) Ultramarines a very good run (admittedly I'm not running Guilliman to be fair). With a codex I can't see DG being outside of top tier. Seeing all the attention they're getting (collector's limited stuff, etc) makes me a bit jealous for sure. I am still hopeful Thousand Sons get more than just a book. But I"m not sure what.

[Raven1]

I thought today's information release would give us a hint for what to expect with TS, but now I'm just more confused. I thought TS would be mortal wound kings but DG certainly dish them out very well.

 

I can certainly see stratagem or traits at improve the icon, auto pass a pychic test, but what direction will the army take when the codex drops.

[Prot]

I'd actually prefer if we're not 'Mortal wound kings'. It is a round about way of getting things done that as of now is nearly unblockable aside from special rules and ironically.. DG resilience rolls.

 

I have a feeling something is coming that is going to knock out this type of massive Mortal wound dealing... I could see Necrons ignoring it. Something like a 5+ 'immortal' save. Something like that. I don't want to have to rely on one mechanism so heavily like that. DG will have many weapons though.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Anyone else kind of feeling DG make TS obsolete? pretty much anything we can do, they can do better, I'm just sick and tired of Nurgle and DG players getting an I win button every edition.
 

That said I'm reading Talon of Horus, has to be one of the best books to depict TS/rubricae there is.
I admit I've switched to my GK as like others have said, playign an index army against those with a codex is frustrating to say the least.

[Gosford]

I would really like to see some sort of Psychic Battery ability with TSons. Think about the old Blood Tithe system from KDK, but for psychic powers. Maybe call it Orbs of Power or something (just a silly name for the purpose of this post.)

 

 

Psychic Mastery - Thousand Sons may cast a single power twice in each phase but each unit cannot cast the same power more than once. 

 

 

Orbs of Magnus

 

Each time a Psyker successfully casts a psychic power, you gain 1 Orb. If you cast a power and the result was an 11 or 12, you gain D3 orbs instead. In addition, each time a psyker from this army successfully denies an enemy psychic power, you gain 1 orb. If Magnus is in your army and alive, reduce the cost of each Orb Mastery by 1, but if he dies, increase the cost by 1. 

 

1-3 Orbs - Add +1 to your next casting roll. 1 orb = +1   2 orbs = +2   3 orbs = +3

 

1 Orb - The next successful psychic power you manifest generates D3 Orbs of Power but the target number on the spell is increased by 1. This Gift may only be used once per psychic phase.

 

2 Orbs - Double the range of the next psychic power you cast.

 

2 Orbs - Pick a unit that has already successfully cast a psychic power. They may cast that psychic power a second and final time this phase, but the unit must increase its power target number by 2.

 

D3 Orbs - Gain D3 Orbs

 

3 Orbs - Teleport a unit 9" away from an enemy unit...etc.

 

4 Orbs - All TSons units within 18" of the casting unit gain a 5+ save against Mortal Wounds

 

5 Orbs - Ignore a Perils of the Warp

 

7 Orbs - Choose one of your psychic powers and one of your opponents psychic powers. Both players roll a d6. If the TSons player wins, the players swap power. If the enemy does not have the CHAOS keyword, they will suffer a Perils of the Warp on ANY double rolled when attempting to manifest the TSons power.

 

9 Orbs - Restore D6 models to a TSons unit that is still on the table. On the roll of a 1, no models are restored and the unit selected suffers D3 mortal wounds instead...

 

 

 

 

I dunno, it may be stupid, but this could be a lot of fun, or something like it.

[The Yncarne]

I would like options that do more than S4/5 at 24" or less. I'd also like something that reliably works around the Rule of One when it comes to casting psychic powers.

 

I'm at a loss as to what a Thousand Sons codex theme would be given the units to which we currently have access.

[Panzer]

Anyone else kind of feeling DG make TS obsolete? pretty much anything we can do, they can do better, I'm just sick and tired of Nurgle and DG players getting an I win button every edition.

 

That said I'm reading Talon of Horus, has to be one of the best books to depict TS/rubricae there is.

I admit I've switched to my GK as like others have said, playign an index army against those with a codex is frustrating to say the least.

Be patient. They didn't make TSons obsolete with just their Index rules and TSons are still waiting on their Codex unlike DG who just got theirs (or are about to). ;)

[Gosford]

...I'd also like something that reliably works around the Rule of One when it comes to casting psychic powers.

 

 

I can't see the codex working without this. They have to annul it for TSons.  :/

[Nym]

Tbh, the first thing TS need is either a cost reduction (Rubricae and Scarabs are too expensive for what they provide) or a 4++ across the board. Right now Plague marines are way tougher against S4-5 D1 weapons (which should be our thing) and dish out more pain than we could ever dream of.

 

Anyway, since our index is rather lacking and I don't want to stop playing until december, I've thought about including some allies to my 2000pts list. What do you guys think of it ?

 

Command points : 9

 

Bataillon detachment : Thousand Sons

Ahriman

Sorcerer (stock)

20 Tzaangors (w/ Instrument)

9 Rubrics (3 Warpflamers, 1 Soulreaper)

9 Rubrics (3 Warpflamers, 1 Soulreaper)

5 Scarabs (Helfyre rack)

 

Bataillon detachment : Alpha Legion

Sorcerer (stock)

Warpsmith (combi-plasma)

10 Cultists

10 Cultists

10 Cultists

1 Forgefiend

1 Heldrake

3 Obliterators

 

This idea is to take advantage of the Daemon Forge, Veterans of the Long War (and maybe Endless Cacophony, even though I'd like to keep the army Tzeentch-only) stratagems, which are incredibly powerful and could help us be a bit more competitive.

[Prot]

Nym I've lost track of the answer but I think you're safe to use adjusted costs in the Chaos codex. I don't know if that helps your issue. It certainly helps fill the gap for me for now.

[Khannis]

How do you guys feel about a metallic red heresy-era scheme for an Ahriman-aligned TS army? Could any of the other warlords in the Prodigal Sons have the old color scheme? I just like it better than the blue and gold, and I want to do a mixed 30k/40k army, but I'm one of those guys that takes the fluff very seriously :P

 

Any thoughts?

[Vilicate]

I'm not sure I'd say that Plague Marines are -much- tougher than than the sons against anti-infantry guns; they're just about the same (Plague Marines are like 1% better than 1ksons against S4 AP- weapons, and .3% better against S5 AP-), but the Rubrics have better weapons and are better able to utilize heavy weapons.

 

As for your list; why Alphas?  The only benefit I see is the -1 for the cultists and obliterators; plus infiltrate stratagem.  I mean, definitely take a legion other than 1ksons; but there's some other choices that might be more prime.  I also like Helbrutes over the various Daemon Engines at this time, personally.  Looks good otherwise though - you'll have to let us know how it does.

[Raven1]

GW could port fate dice from AoS?

 

You are safe using the new point costs.

[Vilicate]

GW could port fate dice from AoS?

 

You are safe using the new point costs.

 

I would be totally cool with that.

[Prot]

How do you guys feel about a metallic red heresy-era scheme for an Ahriman-aligned TS army? Could any of the other warlords in the Prodigal Sons have the old color scheme? I just like it better than the blue and gold, and I want to do a mixed 30k/40k army, but I'm one of those guys that takes the fluff very seriously :P

Any thoughts?

Sure you can do this. Originally this is what I eas gong to do.

[The Yncarne]

@Nym I don't know how effective that list will be, but it seems to fill some of the holes the Index Sons have.

 

Are you using the cultists as backfield objective holders?

 

Otherwise your list looks similar to what I had considered. Only I'd run renegade and use the cultists as meat shields while the rubrics held objectives.

[Archaeinox]

How do you guys feel about a metallic red heresy-era scheme for an Ahriman-aligned TS army? Could any of the other warlords in the Prodigal Sons have the old color scheme? I just like it better than the blue and gold, and I want to do a mixed 30k/40k army, but I'm one of those guys that takes the fluff very seriously

 

Any thoughts?

 

A buddy of mine at the store painted all his TS in the 30k scheme and it looks great.

[Prot]

I'm not sure I'd say that Plague Marines are -much- tougher than than the sons against anti-infantry guns; they're just about the same (Plague Marines are like 1% better than 1ksons against S4 AP- weapons, and .3% better against S5 AP-), but the Rubrics have better weapons and are better able to utilize heavy weapons.

 

 

 

My experience just comes from playing against them and isn't math-hammer. All I can say with 100% certainty is if you offered me "all is dust" or T5, 3+, 5++ I'm taking the DG rule everyday. 

 

That's not a knock against Thousand Sons, but a tip of the hat to the baseline survivability of DG infantry. 

 

At the end of the day I'd rather have damage rather than improved resilience. I'm trying hard to focus on full Rubric squads and base a real strat around that. Since I refuse to have them walk up the board, the annoying thing is fitting HQ's in transports with them and still having points for other items.

[Zodd1888]

Flat chance to stop all standard wounds from a shot on 5++ vs. flat chance to stop each wound, mortal or not, from a shot on 5+++.

 

One is going to have a better curve due to more rolls getting closer to the true average. You're going to roll more often for the 5+++ because it does work on mortal wounds resulting in more wounds saved. DG is more resilient.

 

Slaanesh and Khrone are similar, Fast vs. Strong. I'm hoping DG and TSons take a similar balance approach of slow defence to fast offence. We'll have to wait and see.

[Skerr]

How do you guys feel about a metallic red heresy-era scheme for an Ahriman-aligned TS army? Could any of the other warlords in the Prodigal Sons have the old color scheme? I just like it better than the blue and gold, and I want to do a mixed 30k/40k army, but I'm one of those guys that takes the fluff very seriously :P

 

Any thoughts?

Do It! I almost went metallic red though ended up doing 15 SOT in metallic blue. Now i airbrushed my rubrics a cold white with gold, silver decor, red gems, black Tabards and loving it. (Think Grand Order of the Hermetic Blades but more white).

 

None of my armies really have traditional colors (especially my eldar aspect warriors of old), that's the beauty of the hobby!

[Paladin777]

Death guard are more resilient, but not as much as you'd think. With the condotions that the death card have the greatest edge in survivability (str 8/9, AP-2, D2) They are more survivable by about 15%. That being said, if your opponent is firing antitank weapons at your rubric Marines, that in and of itself is a victory! As was stated earlier, the gap between plague Marines and Rupert marines closest substantially when being fired up by anti-personnel weapons. Something that needs to be noted of with the disgustingly resilient rule is that you need to roll per wound so against a D2 weapon there is only a 1/9 chance of saving and only it decreases from there.

 

Against super high AP weapons at str 6/7 and even 8 (plasma guns!) at D2+, our invulnerable save actually ends up making us more resilient than the disgustingly resilient death guard!

 

As long as we get rules similar in power in our codex (warlord traits, relics, stratagems, psychic shenanagins) we should be just fine as I think our actual basic units are really pretty good.

[Vilicate]

How do you guys feel about a metallic red heresy-era scheme for an Ahriman-aligned TS army? Could any of the other warlords in the Prodigal Sons have the old color scheme? I just like it better than the blue and gold, and I want to do a mixed 30k/40k army, but I'm one of those guys that takes the fluff very seriously

 

Any thoughts?

 

Mine are red!  I really liked painting these guys, it was super easy.

 

[Skerr]

Those look great Vilcate, the clumps of snow and grass are a nice touch to the red scheme.  Thanks for sharing!