++ The Brotherhood of Dust - A Thousand Sons Community ++

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I have a start collecting helbrute waiting to be assembled; am I right in thinking the las cannon missile launcher combo is good? Or should I go auto cannon and scourge?

 

Also, do we have any input on the defiler? I love the model but would like to know if anyone is having any success with it.

 

Las and missile launcher is a bit of a waste. If you want a ranged fire platform, you're better using Predators or havocs.

The advantage of the helbrute is it's melee, and ability to threaten anything all around. Power Scourge is a must take imo. As for the ranged weapon, I'd go for cheaper options, as price is the big advantage. Reaper is nice and cheap but a bit lackluster still. I'd got with Scourge and Twin Heavy Bolter, or Scourge and Plasma cannon, depending on if you want it to be more anti light and medium infantry or heavy and vehicles. The only time I'd do a lascannon is if I had a lot of other heavy support and intended to use it to guard them.

[Prot]

I actually love the Helbrute in  Missile and Las build. Love it... cheaper than you'd think. Standing still and hitting on 3's plus prescience. I just hope we get the chaos strat that let's us shoot twice. That has been used against me now and it's a very efficient use provided the closest model is a good target. 

 

I've been using one since 8th and I have had 2 variants but the missile/Las is my personal fave. It's still okay in CC.

[Zodd1888]

Las/Missle and DP is optimal or Las/Scourge if they're marching forward.

In the case of TSons I personally prefer Las/Missle.

 

My intent when I use Helbrutes is as a firing platform without a degrading profile. Generally they're a little worse than a Heldrake in combat without a melee weapon, so I think the trade-off is worth it for all the Dakka and distraction. As more terrain is released with 8th in mind we'll see Helbrutes taking advantage of cover also.

 

We've been playing with attached foam bases to buildings done up with some debris for a footprint for cover, similar to being inside a forest. Cover just seems brutal this edition with how difficult and weak it can be. LOS blocking terrain, while always and especially important, may be being overvalued versus the actual issue of the cover mechanics lack of impact with the current accesories/rules widely available.

[Prot]

I think the cover issue comes from the abuse of cover, and the grey areas. Too many armies had 5-8 point models getting really good saves. I agree it can be harsh, but toe-in Wraithknights was crazy. I don't miss that stuff at all.

 

My Decimator is coming together though. I'm looking forward to that. He's not quite as tough as I thought statswise.... he's probably going to end up with a claw, heavy flamer, and Soulburner Petard keeping him at just under 200. Those Mortal Wounds should fit in nicely. Going with 2 Soulburners was a consideration but I feel he will be challenged in CC whenever possible and probably the first thing shot to death in my army.

[Souljet]

So it looks like DG are going from 21 units in the Index, to 33 units in the codex...

Can we dare to dream for a similar increase for the TS? Unlikely but it would be a very pleasant surprise.

[Raven1]

So it looks like DG are going from 21 units in the Index, to 33 units in the codex...

Can we dare to dream for a similar increase for the TS? Unlikely but it would be a very pleasant surprise.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

[Souljet]

Lol indeed. Still, we are sitting at 21 units in the Index as well. I'd be happy with access to even just a few more standard CSM units.

Anything completely new would be a huge bonus.

[Skerr]

what are some of the additional units they have access to that might not be new or unique?  Thanks! Not trying to derail or get off topic though it might give us a clue as to what TS might get expanded upon.

 

Thanks!

[Prot]

I agree. But I noticed DG didn't have access to a few things I would consider standard.... like a Heldrake.

 

I would love Obliterators lol. But I know that won't happen... a new heavy or super heavy is at the top of my wish list but I do believe a Psychic Helbrute would be super easy to implement and quite fitting. ( thinking of brother captain NDKs shows me GW is willing to use an existing model for a new unit entry).

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I've been thinking for awhile that GW should be giving everyone Contemptors, since kits exist for them already. Or perhaps make a rules distinction between Helbrutes and dreadnoughts again.

[Souljet]

what are some of the additional units they have access to that might not be new or unique?  Thanks! Not trying to derail or get off topic though it might give us a clue as to what TS might get expanded upon.

 

Thanks!

The white dwarf quotes "seven new characters such as the Foul Blightspawn and Biologus Putrifier, [and Mortarion]" and then goes onto say it has 33 datasheets.

The 7 characters would bring it up to 28 units if they were on top of the other new 8th edition characters they got in the Index. I would doubt that though?

Then perhaps it would be the new Terminator unit, the new tank, then at a complete guess they could get access to the Heldrake, Maulerfiend, Forgefiend and Vindicator again.

In saying all of this I have no idea. It could be anything.

 

I agree. But I noticed DG didn't have access to a few things I would consider standard.... like a Heldrake.

 

I would love Obliterators lol. But I know that won't happen... a new heavy or super heavy is at the top of my wish list but I do believe a Psychic Helbrute would be super easy to implement and quite fitting. ( thinking of brother captain NDKs shows me GW is willing to use an existing model for a new unit entry).

Obliterators would be much needed for heavy support and give us another deep striking option. But as you day, it won't happen sadly.

I know they will try and pick units that fit our fluff but funnily enough imo obliterators, mutilators, and possessed aren't too much of a stretch when they could be excused as the flesh change taking hold again on the non-rubrics. I guess this would be how they explain our access to spawn?

Then some Chosen, Raptor, and Havoc equivalents would be nice but again, highly unlikely.

A new psychic dread would be great and considering BA have one, and there's 30K TS versions, it's viable.

 

At the moment though my gut's telling me it will just be the existing 21 units plus new warlord traits, relics, stratagems, psychic powers, objectives, and hopefully point reductions. I'll take it but something new unit wise would be nice.

[Raven1]

If you want to look at datasheets. C:SM has like 85, C:CSM 45, C:GK 32, and C:DG apparently 33. It makes sense Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines have the most so if DG and GK are nearly the same I would expect TS to not be much different.

[Souljet]

If you want to look at datasheets. C:SM has like 85, C:CSM 45, C:GK 32, and C:DG apparently 33. It makes sense Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines have the most so if DG and GK are nearly the same I would expect TS to not be much different.

I hope you're right. What would be your picks for the extra dozen or so units though?

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Guys,

 

Working with what we know today, allow me to switch gears abit. with the new Defiler cost, is anyone trying it?

Used one with the Twin Heavy Flamer and Reaper. Did fine (killed a Rhino and some Grey Hunters and scared my opponent into focusing it with over half his army). Took a lot of killing with the Changeling nearby. Totally worth the cost if you exploit the available synergies.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I agree. But I noticed DG didn't have access to a few things I would consider standard.... like a Heldrake.

 

I would love Obliterators lol. But I know that won't happen... a new heavy or super heavy is at the top of my wish list but I do believe a Psychic Helbrute would be super easy to implement and quite fitting. ( thinking of brother captain NDKs shows me GW is willing to use an existing model for a new unit entry).

Rubric Dreads used to have special rules of their own. Maybe time to bring them back in some way.

 

Also, units of Marines riding disks. Used to have those back in the Rogue Trader days I think (brotherhoods of mini-sorcerers).

 

Fire Lord, Doomwing (if the Heldrake isn't meant as a replacement), Silver Towers, and either the Hidden Ones or the Order of Ruin might be cool to see.

 

The existence of Credence in the John French books indicates that there are perhaps few Battle Automata left after all....maybe pull a "Blight Drone/Bloat Drone" and come up with a non-FW variant.

[The Yncarne]

While you could take discs on some Rogue Trader models, they were never packaged as units nor were there rules for a unit that I remember. It was more of a character or warband equipment.

[Archaeinox]

 

Rubric Dreads used to have special rules of their own. 

 

Huh?

[Aasfresser]

 

 

Rubric Dreads used to have special rules of their own. 

 

Huh?

 

More or less. In 3.5 if a chaos dread had the mark of Tzeentch, he simply wasn't  affected by the crazed rule.

[Paladin777]

I've been playing since third edition, but I don't remember ever seeing a rule like that. In the 3.5 codex, if a vehicle was dedicated to change, than it had the coruscating warp flame which damaged attackers in the assault face. ( fun fact, my voice recognition identified "tzeentch" as "change"

[Aasfresser]

I've been playing since third edition, but I don't remember ever seeing a rule like that. In the 3.5 codex, if a vehicle was dedicated to change, than it had the coruscating warp flame which damaged attackers in the assault face. ( fun fact, my voice recognition identified "tzeentch" as "change" ) Could you be possibly talking about a forgeworld rule?

Yeah, my bad. I just skimmed through the 3.5 codex and couldn't find anything. Must have mixed it up with the old forgeworld rules for the TS dread.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

Rubric Dreads used to have special rules of their own. 

 

Huh?

 

More or less. In 3.5 if a chaos dread had the mark of Tzeentch, he simply wasn't  affected by the crazed rule.

 

In 3.0 Index Astartes they were 25 points more, got Daemonic Possession automatically, and did not frenzy. This was PRE 3.5 using the 1998 codex and the Index Astartes articles. The same article had Tzeentch Possessed that got "Fast" and then rolled 2 other results, along with rules for the Thousand Sons being able to take large numbers of Sorcerers (Aspiring Sorcerers weren't a thing yet and the 3.5 era kit had not yet come out).

 

While you could take discs on some Rogue Trader models, they were never packaged as units nor were there rules for a unit that I remember. It was more of a character or warband equipment.

Thanks. I guess I remembered the units of disk riders from the card game, where they used some of the Rogue Trader styling. Also, Disks of Tzeentch (without riders) were a Daemonic Cavalry unit in the 3.0 codex.....before Screamers existed.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Also, if anyone's interested, I believe it was White Dwarf 267 where the article first appeared. It was also reprinted on pg. 40-47 of "Index Astartes III." That was in April 2002. 3.5 came out in 2003.

[Zodd1888]

Saying it again: Gimme Rubric Disc Havocs!

[Raven1]

I hope you're right. What would be your picks for the extra dozen or so units though?

Part realistic part wishlist

Realistically we can expect no new kits. That being said existing models that require little or no alteration might get multiple datasheets. Say sorcerer Lord, exalted champion type and a lowly sorcerer or a "cabal" or unit of sorcerers. Some demons, GW knows Tzeentch demons are popular with TS C:CSM got some I figure we will get them plus maybe an elite or HQ or two. Also we will probably see things we had options for before the Index namely possessed, Obliterators, and multilators.

 

Also it's a bit of a stretch but Tzaangors are good so maybe a port of the Shaman, enlightened or skyfyres.

 

I dont see why GW wont port over other simple choices like the contemptor specifically. CSM already has access to imperial vehicles so why not expand the purchasing base a pyschic dread or rubric dread would be out of place.

 

Again we will have to see what death guard gets as it will i think tell a lot about the design theme for TS

[1000 Sons]

I want a psykic dread riding a disc. That would be my ultimate dream unit.

 

Would love to see the firelord or silver towers from epic. Could see thousand sons pushed to being the legion in the sky motif.