[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[Withershadow]

Yeah but I'll play versus a warhound at 3K one time and one time only, next time I'm throwing a shoryuken at your testicles.

[Purge the Daemon]

Yeah but I'll play versus a warhound at 3K one time and one time only, next time I'm throwing a shoryuken at your testicles.

I mean you can always give it something other than dual turbo lasers and it's much more balanced.

[Runefyre]

Yeah but I'll play versus a warhound at 3K one time and one time only, next time I'm throwing a shoryuken at your testicles.

I have to deal with a warhound @2000 points in 40k. So dealing with one @3000 points in HH matches isn't so bad.

 

but the guy who runs it insists on always proxying his plasma blaster and vulcan megabolter as turbo-lasers. Annoying as heck.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hey guys I'm pretty new to 30k and know nothing about mechanicum (no one I see plays them). I'm thinking of adding a small mechanicum allied force to my legion list. What I'm really looking for is something that can point efficiently threaten heavy tanks like Spartans and Typhons. Any suggestions on s good, small, mechanicum unit/detachment that can do that? 

 

1-2 Vultarax, Krios Venators are also good just less reliable and you need to flank to avoid flare shields. And of course, old faithful the Lightning-Primaris with kraken missiles works just fine. Secutarii Peltasts with arc rifles also work, just need to get in rapid fire range. 

Am I missing something with Vultatax? 2 haywire hits a turn that must somehow stay within 12" of a cortex controller while flying for 175 doesn't seem that great. 

 

That's why you run them in Legio Cybernetica, where you have 24" cortex range. 

Well its 3x S6 AP5 Haywire shots, 6x if you cast 'Rite of Destruction' on it. Not to mention, it can Skyfire enemy Flyers due to being an FMC, and it also can enter Swooping mode itself to become largely immune to ground fire. They've also updated its rules in 'Inferno' to be T6, but its flare shield works on all facings now (so its effectively T7, and T8 against blasts or templates). 

I'd suggest to head over to the Legion threads, rivers of salt get generated when you bring up Vultarax with them. 

The new titan guard throw out 10 haywire shots for around the same price, but they need a ride 

 

I actually like Peltasts more in that role. Hoplites seem better in ZM or a terrain heavy board. But Peltasts can swap out the galvanic caster for arc rifles. It is an expensive upgrade, but they'll drop any non-Titan vehicle if you get them in rapid-fire range. Chuck 10 of them in a Triaros or Arvus shuttle, get them within 12" and RIP enemy Superheavies. I think they're actually better than Vultarax, because you can run them in Taghmata and Reductor as scoring Troops (just can't be Compulsory choices), and S6 AP5 Rapid Fire will still hurt Marines and robots. 

[Withershadow]

Peltasts are already bad for their cost, adding 15" arc rifles doesn't really help. A truly awful unit.

[Leman Russ SW]

Arc rifles have 24" range same as in 40K.  Apparently it was copy paste error someone asked Alan Blight at the weekender.

[Castellan Cato]

Arc rifles have 24" range same as in 40K.  Apparently it was copy paste error someone asked Alan Blight at the weekender.

I wish that was FAQ or something official... it's going to be hard to convince someone in a pickup game.

[Brofist]

I ran some vorax this weekend in a couple of games. Not impressed, which sucks considering the amount of work I put into the models. Even with bio ammo and salvo 4/5 (house rules) the rotor cannons didn't do much. I think the effective way to use them is naked with outflank. Get into melee as fast as you can go. I didn't have much success with the scout moves. Edited February 20, 2017 by Bulbafist

[Withershadow]

Scout move is only if you want to scoot a combat Magos up (like Scoria.

 

I was enamoured by the rotor cannons but without an AP a lot of shots do bounce off, and are a lot less useful against other Mechanicum than I initially thought since you have to reroll successful wounds. So most often you are paying points to wound marines on 4+ rather than 5+. By the time you upgrade the unit, you half bought another Vorax! Maybe if you have a proliferation of Myrmidons and Custodes in your group, the poison is worthwhile.

[Tiger9gamer]

Arc rifles have 24" range same as in 40K.  Apparently it was copy paste error someone asked Alan Blight at the weekender.

is this not official yet? also, are the points the same?

Edited February 21, 2017 by Tiger9gamer

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Peltasts are already bad for their cost, adding 15" arc rifles doesn't really help. A truly awful unit. 

 

Rapid fire S6 Haywire on scoring dudes who can be BS5 for free (cheap upgrade on squad leader for -1 to enemy cover saves) and take Triaros as dedicated. Or take Assault 3 radium carbines to make multi-wound cry.

Compare them to Thallax, Scyllax or Tech-Thralls and I don't know how you can say they are awful. They make all our other Troop choices look like garbage. Their mini-flare shield rule is also kinda hilarious, puts bolters down to S3 against them and you need S7+ to shut off their FNP. 

I ran some vorax this weekend in a couple of games. Not impressed, which sucks considering the amount of work I put into the models. Even with bio ammo and salvo 4/5 (house rules) the rotor cannons didn't do much. I think the effective way to use them is naked with outflank. Get into melee as fast as you can go. I didn't have much success with the scout moves. 

 

They're a really oddly designed unit. It's the 4+ armour and medicore shooting that hold them back I feel. They're quite competent in melee (especially at I5 in Cybernetica), getting there can be a bit of a challenge. Outflank is probably the best way to go. If you can get side or rear arcs on backfield artillery with your lightning guns, or charge into melee the turn after, they can be pretty annoying and effective. Yeah poison ammo is fun but it is a bit expensive. Also you have to pay for frags, which is dumb. 

is this not official yet? also, are the points the same?

 

'Inferno' will need a pretty comprehensive FAQ I think. Lot of issues, not just with Mechanicum new stuff. The new Secutarii leader needs IC status, they made the same dumb mistake with Domini the first time round. And the Karacnos needs AP3 on its battery, bit mediocre otherwise. 

[Iron Bars]

The peltasts can exchange their grenade launchers for arcrifles (all of them) or radiumcarabines, no other options?

[Runefyre]

The peltasts can exchange their grenade launchers for arcrifles (all of them) or radiumcarabines, no other options?

Other than purchasing kinetic rounds for the grenade launchers, there's no other rifle options.

[Withershadow]

@Darius - If you're giving them arc rifles, that's 320 points for 10 guys, that's why I don't like them. The flare shield goes away as soon as they are less than 10-strong.

 

Maybe because you're obsessed with giving every troop unit a triaros, you consider our troops garbage. Tech-thralls are dirt cheap objective holders for me, and Thallax are mobile enough on their own and can get where they need to go. They've always served me well, we can just agree to disagree here because we play very different games.

[Purge the Daemon]

@Darius - If you're giving them arc rifles, that's 320 points for 10 guys, that's why I don't like them. The flare shield goes away as soon as they are less than 10-strong.

 

Maybe because you're obsessed with giving every troop unit a triaros, you consider our troops garbage. Tech-thralls are dirt cheap objective holders for me, and Thallax are mobile enough on their own and can get where they need to go. They've always served me well, we can just agree to disagree here because we play very different games.

Tech thrills while I hate the idea of them personally are undeniably super good. For 100 points you get 20 man fearless 4+(not denied by bolter save) and feel no pain 5+. You could obviously run them even cheaper but they are an immovable objective camping machine and objectives win games.

[SydonianDragoon404]

The new rules are finally motivating me to paint my Hoplites. I've struggled with anti-armor for anything above AV12 for a while now, 10 hoplites in a Triaros will make that problem go away real nicely. 

[Emperors Teeth]

@Darius - If you're giving them arc rifles, that's 320 points for 10 guys, that's why I don't like them. The flare shield goes away as soon as they are less than 10-strong.

Unless I missed something (did you add his transport ideas in?), 10 Peltasts with Arc Rifles are 220pts.

[Tiger9gamer]

has anyone tried the peltasts out yet?

[Withershadow]

 

@Darius - If you're giving them arc rifles, that's 320 points for 10 guys, that's why I don't like them. The flare shield goes away as soon as they are less than 10-strong.

Unless I missed something (did you add his transport ideas in?), 10 Peltasts with Arc Rifles are 220pts.

 

Maybe my PDF is a bit blurry, but it looks like 20 points per arc rifle to me. 20*10 = 200 in gear alone.

[Brofist]

I think those AP3 bolts are the way to go. 5pts a pop gives you a 150pt 10 man scoring unit that throws out x10 AP3 shots. 30" range and I think you can shoot them indirectly.

[Runefyre]

I think those AP3 bolts are the way to go. 5pts a pop gives you a 150pt 10 man scoring unit that throws out x10 AP3 shots. 30" range and I think you can shoot them indirectly.

Only the ignis blaze shots are parabolic (ignoring LoS). But the kinetic hammershot looks great for stationary gunlines (thinking stationed behind an aegis defense line or something similar).

[Brofist]

 

I think those AP3 bolts are the way to go. 5pts a pop gives you a 150pt 10 man scoring unit that throws out x10 AP3 shots. 30" range and I think you can shoot them indirectly.

Only the ignis blaze shots are parabolic (ignoring LoS). But the kinetic hammershot looks great for stationary gunlines (thinking stationed behind an aegis defense line or something similar).

 

You're totally right.

 

My meta has swung very heavily into outflank hammer due to how cheap combi vets are. They are basically 275pt execution squads, especially with legions like SoH and TKSons. Admech's access to army wide interceptor is really the only hard counter I have. Hammershot peltasts are a good option for this I think, especially in an allied detachment.

[Withershadow]

They are BS5 and can get preferred enemy, so it's not bad, but they are T3 4+ models on a 30K battlefield.

[Purge the Daemon]

They are BS5 and can get preferred enemy, so it's not bad, but they are T3 4+ models on a 30K battlefield.

I think they have uses in an any built with them as a core but as an after thought are maybe to pricey. But damn are they cook looking.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

@Darius - If you're giving them arc rifles, that's 320 points for 10 guys, that's why I don't like them. The flare shield goes away as soon as they are less than 10-strong.

 

Maybe because you're obsessed with giving every troop unit a triaros, you consider our troops garbage. Tech-thralls are dirt cheap objective holders for me, and Thallax are mobile enough on their own and can get where they need to go. They've always served me well, we can just agree to disagree here because we play very different games. 

 

220 points, which is actually perfectly fine. 

Which is why you take a transport, like a Triaros. 

 

I just find most people have the tools to dismantle infantry from range. If you don't have high mobility, footslogging infantry will get ripped to shreds by plenty of things. As great as Secutarii are, they're still T3 dudes on foot in 4+ armour. Solar Auxilia can sort of do that because they get 20 dudes for 100pts (lasrifle sections), but your dudes cost more and aren't as disposable. 

Thallax need to have their damage output fixed. I'm fine with their cost and mobility, lightning guns should be Heavy 2 though (same change would also help Vorax be a bit better as a shooty unit). They're incredibly bad when outranged and outgunned, which is pretty much every matchup I deal with. 

My meta has swung very heavily into outflank hammer due to how cheap combi vets are. They are basically 275pt execution squads, especially with legions like SoH and TKSons. Admech's access to army wide interceptor is really the only hard counter I have. Hammershot peltasts are a good option for this I think, especially in an allied detachment. 

 

Chuck some Peltasts in a Triaros, that will prevent them killing you unless they bring combi-melta. Then in your turn hop out and kill them with BS5 kinetic rounds. Arc rifles will cause a lot of wounds too, but kinetic rounds ignore their power armour and let you hang back further out of their rapid fire or charge threat range.