[HH1.0] Mechanicum Tactica

[TURBULENCE]

Hey all, after much soul searching and thought on what heresy forces I want to start up with I've landed on legio Cybernetica as a loyalist force. But I'm having a lot of trouble with list building, any advice on a good starting point for me? I love me some robots but an army of monsters is hard to make work

[Brofist]

Cybernetica started as a very powerful army, but has been balanced out over the last couple years. These days we don't have as many options as the other admech factions and are better as an ally. We do have Scoria, it's true, but you can take him in a regular admech army.

 

When you build a Cybernetica army you should start with what you 'must' take followed by any scoring options. That means two squads of double Castellax (still a good choice) and one or two Vultarax for taking down armour (a top tier choice). Your HQ will be an archmagos or two unless you plan to take Scoria. That right there is your core army and already about 1200 points. From here you need to decide what your scoring troops choices will be (you probably want two). Whatever points you have left over you can use to fill out the rest of your army.

[Withershadow]

^Never a generic archmagos, ever!

[SydonianDragoon404]

So I tried out a squad of Hoplites in a Triaros this past weekend in a 2000pt game against World Eaters. They were mostly killing Rhinos and Dreadnoughts so it kind of felt like overkill. Regardless, I'm going to give them another shot very soon and see if it's worth the points paid. I can say that the Axiarch is probably not worth the points given the weapon options he has, and he feels kind of unnecessary when the squad alone is sufficient for dealing with any threats. The buffs aren't really that great in a Hoplite squad. Maybe if you really wanted some kind of killy death squad of Peltasts he could augment them somewhat but that would be a pretty expensive unit. 

[TURBULENCE]

Cybernetica started as a very powerful army, but has been balanced out over the last couple years. These days we don't have as many options as the other admech factions and are better as an ally. We do have Scoria, it's true, but you can take him in a regular admech army.

 

When you build a Cybernetica army you should start with what you 'must' take followed by any scoring options. That means two squads of double Castellax (still a good choice) and one or two Vultarax for taking down armour (a top tier choice). Your HQ will be an archmagos or two unless you plan to take Scoria. That right there is your core army and already about 1200 points. From here you need to decide what your scoring troops choices will be (you probably want two). Whatever points you have left over you can use to fill out the rest of your army.

While I get they are better as allies, it was more of a rule of cool choice than a tactical one. I love me some robots. What you've suggested is pretty much where I'm getting stuck. I'm starting at 1500(just for the sake of my wallet) and after 2x2 castelax +tech thrall mobs and the not-blight drone I've got very little left to fit in. I'm stuck trying to choose between an arlatax or a thanatar.

 

^Never a generic archmagos, ever!

Yeah before asking I did read the whole thread, and from what I can put together, for what you get over the regular dominus it's just not worth the extra points. For now I have my HQ as 2 magos dominus with survivability upgrades. I'm trying to avoid scoria as I wanted this to be a loyalist legio, but I feel like I may have to add him in once I scale up if only for rite of the Beast+ sweeping advance.

[Withershadow]

Axiarch is currently useless because he can't join units, but his preferred enemy buff is very nice.

[Brofist]

 

Cybernetica started as a very powerful army, but has been balanced out over the last couple years. These days we don't have as many options as the other admech factions and are better as an ally. We do have Scoria, it's true, but you can take him in a regular admech army.

 

When you build a Cybernetica army you should start with what you 'must' take followed by any scoring options. That means two squads of double Castellax (still a good choice) and one or two Vultarax for taking down armour (a top tier choice). Your HQ will be an archmagos or two unless you plan to take Scoria. That right there is your core army and already about 1200 points. From here you need to decide what your scoring troops choices will be (you probably want two). Whatever points you have left over you can use to fill out the rest of your army.

While I get they are better as allies, it was more of a rule of cool choice than a tactical one. I love me some robots. What you've suggested is pretty much where I'm getting stuck. I'm starting at 1500(just for the sake of my wallet) and after 2x2 castelax +tech thrall mobs and the not-blight drone I've got very little left to fit in. I'm stuck trying to choose between an arlatax or a thanatar.

 

^Never a generic archmagos, ever!

Yeah before asking I did read the whole thread, and from what I can put together, for what you get over the regular dominus it's just not worth the extra points. For now I have my HQ as 2 magos dominus with survivability upgrades. I'm trying to avoid scoria as I wanted this to be a loyalist legio, but I feel like I may have to add him in once I scale up if only for rite of the Beast+ sweeping advance.

 

Well there you have it! Like I said, we don't have that many options. Especially at lower points. Since you picked thralls for troops you're basically stuck with a fast attack flier to crack armour, some big robots for fire support, something to drive your tralls closer, or something for harassing their rear lines.

[Charlo]

Saw a very cool idea over on /tg/...

 

Arvus Lighters as transport for Secutartii!

 

You basically get a Rhino with Jink that can Deep Strike your crazy Haywire Hoplites into position. Even has a capacity of 12 so you can bring the Secutarii leader with them (assuming he is supposed to be an IC) and one more squad member to keep up the 10 man buff!

 

I think you can also disembark the same turn... So, goodbye any and all AV!

[LtDan]

Or grav myrmidons work with this too.

[Withershadow]

Problem with this is unlike Drop pods they don't come in automatically and you have no reserve manipulation unless you also bring a fortification with a comms relay. Also the Arvus is a large model and doesn't have inertial guidance, so unless you play on empty tables you will have problems finding a good landing spot.

[Charlo]

Problem with this is unlike Drop pods they don't come in automatically and you have no reserve manipulation unless you also bring a fortification with a comms relay. Also the Arvus is a large model and doesn't have inertial guidance, so unless you play on empty tables you will have problems finding a good landing spot.

All true, but, I think it's totally workable. You don't need to be all in on turn one, and for what amounts to around 3-400pts it's very deadly to anything AV.

[LtDan]

Marco exploritor for reserve rolls. They are oos on fw website too. Just something bit different to do i guess. Can the disembark the turn they arrive tho?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hey all, after much soul searching and thought on what heresy forces I want to start up with I've landed on legio Cybernetica as a loyalist force. But I'm having a lot of trouble with list building, any advice on a good starting point for me? I love me some robots but an army of monsters is hard to make work 

 

 

Starting point is your choice of Arch-Dominus:

- Scoria: Strongest choice by far, but in more casual games you might wanna drop him. He's basically a Cybernetica Primarch. 

- Satarael: The more balanced generalist choice. He's nice because of cyber-occulari (Interceptor bubbles wrecks a lot of Legion strategy), he can on a 3+ deny 'Slay the Warlord' when he dies (hilarious teleport ability), and his Archimandrite doctrine means any vehicles get IWND and you get +1 to Reserve rolls (plus he has a djinn-skein). He's good in pure or mixed Cybernetica, whereas Scoria only buffs robots. 

 

Don't take the generic Arch-Dominus, he's really bad for his points and gets wrecked by generic Praetors. 

 

Your other two HQ choices should be two Domini. I'd generally keep them cheap, at most give them augery scanners (good for preventing Infiltration and Deepstriking), maybe infravisors if you expect Night Lords. You don't give them guns because they'll never use them (you're either using Battlesmith or Cybertheurgy in your Shooting phase). Machinator array is nice, but not essential. 

 

Elites:

 

Trashbin central. Domitars are not salvageable in their current form. FW need to either fix their guns or give them some kinda of mobility buff (Fleet would be nice). 

 

Troops:

 

You have to take four Castellax here anyway (2x2 maniples), so you might as well make them useful. Enhanced Targeters and darkfire cannons are pretty much mandatory, unless you like watching 400pts+ of your army do largely nothing for several turns. I tend to have to deal with melee threats and mech lists, so I find Siege Wreckers are a handy upgrade (although its not 100% required, as you're mostly sniping from the backfield, slowly advancing). Flamers are a good pick against Militia but tend to do nothing to Astartes or Solar Auxilia, also you fire them like once per game at best. Frags I take in larger games but it's the first thing I trim in smaller matches (you're so slow you rarely get the charge anyway). This is where you attach your Domini, as Castellax make fantastic bodyguards that still contribute to the battle. Some people still moan about them, but they're actually quite balanced between their price increase, loss of scoring and things like phosphex and Medusas being common Legion choices. 

 

For auxilary Troops ie scoring, Tech-Thralls and Thallax are best. Thralls because they're cheap as hell and will attract zero fire normally, Thallax offer anti-Infiltrate utility and can be used to harass. Personally I prefer Thralls because Cybernetica is an extremely point-hungry army and Thallax kinda work better in Taghmata or Reductor. 

 

One other interesting option is sacrificing a HQ slot to get a Magos Prime Macrotek, which then unlocks Enginseer Tech-Auxilia squads as Troops. You also get an extra Fortification slot as well. Like with Thallax, I feel you end up spending too many points to unlock this combo, and you're not getting any benefit from the Cybernetica Cohort bonuses. However, for some cheap repair crew (if you give the Adepts cortex controllers they can repair robots) and heavy bolters on the servitors for massed anti-infantry, they can be quite solid. 

 

Fast Attack:

 

Ironically our most contested army slot. You have three fantastic choices, one of which doesn't have a model out yet (but will soon)

- Arlatax: You have to proxy or count-as for now. This is what the Domitar should have been, a close combat powerhouse with a jump pack. It hits native I5 in Legio Cybernetica, and with arc scourge you can kill enemy Dreadnoughts before they can swing. They will attract a tonne of fire though, so expect them to die. Also T5 multi-wound like Gal Vorbak or Ogryns will wreck you, as the S9 Shred claw won't instant death them. Pick your combats, Legion Terminators can randomly kill you too (as you only have a 3+ armour save and 6+/6+). 

- Vultarax: Legion players produce rivers of salt when they see the angry bee across the table from them. These are the fastest models in your army bar none. Keep in mind that I wouldn't field more than 1-2 in most matchups, as they're actually quite average at killing anything non-vehicle. On the plus side, no enemy armour will remain on table if they don't deal with these. 

- Vorax: Arguably the weakest robot (no invul, only a 4+ armour save, and only 3W), but their ability to Outflank means you can threaten annoying backfield artillery. They're fantastic at clearing chaff and attacking static units, plus they can slice up Terminators on the cheap. Basically be a bully and pick on phosphex mortars, Medusas and heavy weapon squads camping. Like Arlatax, they will eat a lot of fire and die, but they require AP4 and decent Strength firepower to deal with. Frags are an essential upgrade (they should just roll it into their cost and make them 70pts base), bio-rounds can be good but aren't 100% required (they're a far better melee unit). 

 

Heavy Support:

 

Increasingly I'm not convinced Thanatars are worth it anymore. 250 points base is very expensive, even by Cybernetica standards. Two of these eat a third of your army points at 1500. You can get six Vorax with bio rounds and frags cheaper (or seven with just frags). That said, their psychological value is great, and being able to vapourise annoyances like jetbikers and multi-wound Terminators is handy. My other issue with Thanatars is they tend to die as easily as a Castellax to lascannons, but cost over twice as much. With the advent of Custodians (who laugh at artillery blasts and require S10 to easy-bake oven), I personally feel like more cheaper robots is better. 

 

Some other options in Heavy are Krios Venators and Myrmidon Destructors. For the same price as two Thanatars, you can get a whole squadron of Krios Venators to flank and hit side armour. Myrmidon Destructors can be geared towards anti-Primarch with grav-imploders, mass infantry clearance with irad-engines, or horde control with volkite culverins. You probably wanna give them a Triaros unless taking culverins, so they can get in range without dying. 

 

Arvus Lighters as transport for Secutartii!

 

You basically get a Rhino with Jink that can Deep Strike your crazy Haywire Hoplites into position. Even has a capacity of 12 so you can bring the Secutarii leader with them (assuming he is supposed to be an IC) and one more squad member to keep up the 10 man buff!

 

I think you can also disembark the same turn... So, goodbye any and all AV!

 

A lot of moving parts to that strategy, but provided you make it happen (Aegis Line with Comms is essential to getting it on Turn 2 when you need it most), its kinda hilarious. Also the Hoplites will be annoying to kill for Legion, as they require quality firepower to melt (regular bolters won't do all that much, especially if the kyropatris field is active). 

 

Peltasts with arc rifles in Triaros are more expensive, but a more reliable version of that strategy. Mechanicum definitely don't struggle to deal with high AV anymore, between Secutarii, angry bees and Reductor Medusas. 

[Withershadow]

I find thanatars to be still solid, the anti-cover shanigans are useful.

 

Peltast blocks with rad carbines are also solid. With BS5 and PE that is a lot of dakka for generating stupid amounts of wounds.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Withershadow

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I find thanatars to be still solid, the anti-cover shanigans are useful.

 

Yeah they're still the best unit for killing anything relying on Jink or stacking cover bonuses (like Night Lords). It's the single shot that makes them so make or break. I think if the hellex mortar was Ordnance 2 or they went down to 220pts base, they'd be fine. They're just a tad overpriced for what they do IMO. 

Peltast blocks with rad carbines are also solid. With BS5 and PE that is a lot of dakka for generating stupid amounts of wounds. 

 

Yeah I'm quite concerned facing them with Cybernetica. I still get armour saves, but they can randomly crush robots. At least they are only 18" range, so long as their transport is dead I can kite them, or if they are too close to avoid, charge in and stomp them in melee.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Brother Tyler

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Something else to consider is that Vorax make a quite nice counter to Custodians, provided you give them 'Rite of the Beast'. I6 is fast enough to match their infantry squads, and re-rolling to hit means you'll hopefully force enough invuls to drag them down. Outflank so their attention is divided, and force them to deal with either the Vorax menacing their flank, or the Castellax rolling up the centre. Adrathite weapons and helio rounds still hate on them, but none of our robots get saves against it anyway, so their 4+ armour isn't as big a deal in that matchup. 

 

Arlatax would be great if the power claw was S10, sadly FW stopped short and its only S9. Most likely outcome (assuming either 'Rite of Beast' or 'Rite of Celerity' is up on it) is you kill 1-2 Custodians but get beat by return attacks. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Brother Tyler

[Tiger9gamer]

call me crazy but I prefer the archmagos to the dominus just a bit more for thematic reasons. I mostly like the 10 on leadership and the extra duribility of a 2+/3++ does help in most instances. (in fact I only think he died twice in all the games I played, once after receiving the brunt of a termicide unit and the other was a loss to fulgrim.)

[Purge the Daemon]

call me crazy but I prefer the archmagos to the dominus just a bit more for thematic reasons. I mostly like the 10 on leadership and the extra duribility of a 2+/3++ does help in most instances. (in fact I only think he died twice in all the games I played, once after receiving the brunt of a termicide unit and the other was a loss to fulgrim.)

Are we talking about the cybernetics Archmagos dominus or regular Archmagos.

 

The arch dominus is defintely strong in cybernetica. But losing cyberthurgy hurts on the normal Archmagos if you have a lot of bots.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

call me crazy but I prefer the archmagos to the dominus just a bit more for thematic reasons. I mostly like the 10 on leadership and the extra duribility of a 2+/3++ does help in most instances. (in fact I only think he died twice in all the games I played, once after receiving the brunt of a termicide unit and the other was a loss to fulgrim.)

 

If you're talking about the Archmagos Prime, he's for Taghmata. But the actual Archmagos Dominus (special HQ for Cybernetica) is just bad. He ends up being in the same price range as the named ones (Scoria and Satarael), but infinitely worse. You can get 2+/3++ on any of the Archmagi, that's not unique. The Arch Dominus is the worst in combat, as he can't even get a powerfist/chainfist or paragon blade. He adds nothing unique to the army and dies just as easily as a regular Domini to most things while costing twice as much. Take Scoria when you fight Primarch lists, take Satarael when you wanna be casual (he's still great, just not as salt-inducing as Scoria). 

[unerde]

I'd like to get 10-20 Secutarii in a Triaros. Or some for backfield Haywire Interceptor.

 

Would you guys take Hoplites or Peltasts and why?

 

The Hoplites are more durable and cheaper, but lower range. Peltasts are better range and rapid fire haywire could interceptor, the hoplites assault weapons may not.

 

Can't decide, please help :D

[Karl_von_Krieg]

Guys, i have two questions for you...

 

First, what do you think about the Thanatar Calix? 

I don't figure how to play it...His lascanon is cool but only 1 shot, and in combat against vehicules he's a monster but not against everything else....

 

Then, what do you think about the Thanatar Cynis?

He has a short range, but he looks like a real monster at short range.

 

Thanks for your help guys. :) 

[Purge the Daemon]

Guys, i have two questions for you...

 

First, what do you think about the Thanatar Calix?

I don't figure how to play it...His lascanon is cool but only 1 shot, and in combat against vehicules he's a monster but not against everything else....

 

Then, what do you think about the Thanatar Cynis?

He has a short range, but he looks like a real monster at short range.

 

Thanks for your help guys. :)

Calix is just bad needs a rules update it's okay vs buildings in melee but I mean that's not exactly a role you need to specialize in.

 

Cynis is okay but stock is better as its cheaper and a large blast is more reliable than small blasts as well as the long range is nice.

[MorgothNL]

Hi everyone, I would like to ask about your opinions here.

Today we had a casual 500pts tournament (lots of new players around so we wanted to play 4 small games with a nice variety of armies, so they could get to know the game and their chosen army). It was a 40k tournament in general, but it was for fun so nobody cared if anyone took a 30k army (and as far as I know, 30k is in disadvantage below 2k).

I decided to take my 30k mechanicum, for the sole reason that I had only played one game with the yet, and more so, it gave me motivation to paint my thallax.

 

500pts not giving much options, I just took 2x 3 Thallax (plasma fusil in both), 1 vorax (bio ammo) and 1 magos dominos (machinator array + abeyant). The list was build in 2 min, because this was WYSIWYG for the models I own and the points didn't allow something else.

 

I didn't count on winning any games, but I actually won all 4 (vs Space Wolves, Death Watch, Eldar and Ultramarines).

The ultramarine player was very new, the sw and eldar play quite often and the Death Watch opponent is a veteran player)

 

Everyone now said it was because I took 30k stuff, but I'm wondering about your opinions, was this army at 500pts over powered? 

Restrictions of the game were: no 2+ armour, max 3 wounds, max 33 armour total per model.

We had to stick to CAD.

I played 'The Relic', 2x 'Capture zones' (like the 30k mission with points for deployment zones and no-mans land) and 'King of the Hill' (5vp for the player with the model closest to the middle of a terrain hill).

 

In the end it doesn't really matter and everyone had fun, but I'd like to know for next events, that may be 750-800 pts. Is mechanicum OP for these types of games? I think the eldar player should have beaten me easily, but he kept at 18-24" range, which was perfect for me. The 40k wulfen came closest to winning.

[Brofist]

You took a pretty friendly list, dude. The validity in their argument is that they didn't know your army at all, since it is 30k, and so they didn't know what to expect or how to play against it. If you play again I'd walk them through your army before the game and give them some tips about strengths/weaknesses.

[Karl_von_Krieg]

 

Guys, i have two questions for you...

 

First, what do you think about the Thanatar Calix?

I don't figure how to play it...His lascanon is cool but only 1 shot, and in combat against vehicules he's a monster but not against everything else....

 

Then, what do you think about the Thanatar Cynis?

He has a short range, but he looks like a real monster at short range.

 

Thanks for your help guys.

Calix is just bad needs a rules update it's okay vs buildings in melee but I mean that's not exactly a role you need to specialize in.

 

Cynis is okay but stock is better as its cheaper and a large blast is more reliable than small blasts as well as the long range is nice.

 

Ok, the Calix is useless as expected.

 

I think that i'll take two thanatar plus a Cynis because i have a good conversion idea...

 

Thanks for your answer! 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

I have an other question.

 

How should i run Inar Satarael?

He seems to be more a support character, so i think i must keep it behind, but where?

Far behind with the Thanatar, or in the middle of a pack of Darkfire Castellax? Or alone, or near the front line?

 

Perhaps it's a stupid question, but voila! 

Edited March 12, 2017 by Karl_von_Krieg