[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[betrayer41]

Good lord this is depressing

[Baluc]

If you are taking Russ, I think you should definitely take vets. You don't have to take a full 10, either. 

 

For example:

 

6 vets

w/ Powerfist, 2x power weapons, 2x combi weapons

Rhino

w/ Multimelta, extra armour

 

Is 222 points.

 

It has 2 less profile attacks, but can outflank naturally with sniper, or if you want to scout up the board can take machine-killers, or Weaponmasters.

 

Where as the 10 man Grey Slayer sqd is 220.

 

Outside of Bloodied Claw the Vets are going to provide more going into combat with power armoured units. Against 2+ they both lose anyway so the difference is negligible there.

[Purge the Daemon]

If you are taking Russ, I think you should definitely take vets. You don't have to take a full 10, either.

 

For example:

 

6 vets

w/ Powerfist, 2x power weapons, 2x combi weapons

Rhino

w/ Multimelta, extra armour

 

Is 222 points.

 

It has 2 less profile attacks, but can outflank naturally with sniper, or if you want to scout up the board can take machine-killers, or Weaponmasters.

 

Where as the 10 man Grey Slayer sqd is 220.

 

Outside of Bloodied Claw the Vets are going to provide more going into combat with power armoured units. Against 2+ they both lose anyway so the difference is negligible there.

I always liked more bodies just for when I get shot maybe I still can hold an objective. But I won't lie that's pretty cheap.

[Runefyre]

Good lord this is depressing

Yeah unfortunately it's pretty obvious that the Wolves got the short end of the rules stick....

 

Our rules are just so wonky, and sometimes just downright worse for the same thing when compared to other legions (like White Scars RoW granting infantry gaining FULL Hit and Run AND outflank)

 

Then there's rules conundrums like Frost Weapons. And blatantly overcosted units like Varagyr. And almost good units like Deathsworn (all they need is a pip in WS and combat shields stock imo).

[b1soul]

I've been hearing SW rules are some of the strongest in the game...

[Purge the Daemon]

I've been hearing SW rules are some of the strongest in the game...

From where lol.

 

People complained about Russ' leaked rules but this is Russ at his peak by the end of the heresey I assume most traitor primarchs will hand him his own arse. And really he only excels at fighting there primarchs he's worse vs basically anything else.

[Nightmare84]

Good lord this is depressing

I presume you are talking about the moaning in here rather than the rules. And yes it is.

[Ave_Dominus_Nox]

I'm not really understanding the Woe-is-me attitude about these rules. They're fairly straightforward but strong rules. The only duds for me are the Varangyr Terminator dudes and the whole mix up on the Frost Weapons.

 

Both of the Rites are usable.  

 

You even got a good troops choice at a great points cost in the Grey Slayers.     

 

Russ is a powerhouse, no he doesn't buff his army, but that's not really what you would expect from Russ is it?  

[defl0]

I don't get it either... You can build some nasty lists with this Legion... 

 

What's the mix up on frost weapons? 

 

It seems like you take 2 frost weapons and swap a front weapon for a powerfist, right? Now you have 3 attack termies with a choice of attacking at initiative or at i1 and hammer of wrath hits. 

 

4 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3's, and layering on rad grenades, ROWs, preferred enemy, etc. seems really powerful. 

 

At 54 pts each though, it would have been nice to have 2 wounds. That said, the additional models are pretty cheap. 

[Jackalwolf]

 

Good lord this is depressing

I presume you are talking about the moaning in here rather than the rules. And yes it is.

I'm not really understanding the Woe-is-me attitude about these rules. They're fairly straightforward but strong rules. The only duds for me are the Varangyr Terminator dudes and the whole mix up on the Frost Weapons.

 

Both of the Rites are usable.

 

You even got a good troops choice at a great points cost in the Grey Slayers.

 

Russ is a powerhouse, no he doesn't buff his army, but that's not really what you would expect from Russ is it?

Exactly! Ask any CC army players if they'd like to have hit and run and +1 to reserves in a rite or furious assault and +1 to combat resolution in another rite, feel no pain and preferred enemy infantry in a handy package with ap2 at initiative 3 for 20 points more than a primus medicae, a unit of 10 despoilers with 10 (!) power weapons and sergeant with Artificer armor for 185 (!!) points that can run and charge on the same turn, the most brutal CC Primarch who can let you reroll run and charge once per game and gain 8 more wounds for 100 points, a unit that's basically fixed destroyers, counter attack plus +1 WS on charge plus +1 to run plus counter-attack plus negate infiltrate (AL) plus negate night Lords army wide for just showing up.

 

Quite sure the answer will be yes.

 

EDIT: And for the negatives we need to take an amazing HQ option like a primus medicae with preferred enemy infantry every 1000 points or a named Praetor that grants scout to three units, ap2 at initiative with armorbane and preferred enemy infantry for 210 points? Oh damn! I would have never chosen these amazing options if I wasn't forced to :)

Edited March 8, 2017 by Grieux

[defl0]

^^^^^^^

 

THIS

[b1soul]

 

I've been hearing SW rules are some of the strongest in the game...

From where lol.

People complained about Russ' leaked rules but this is Russ at his peak by the end of the heresey I assume most traitor primarchs will hand him his own arse. And really he only excels at fighting there primarchs he's worse vs basically anything else.

From here...

 

http://warpstoneflux.blogspot.tw/2017/03/horus-heresy-review-space-wolves-legion.html?m=1

 

This guy off his rocker?

[Brofist]

I've been hearing SW rules are some of the strongest in the game...

They have strong rules, but you wouldn't believe it from reading this thread. People are upset they play differently than they expected.

[Dantay VI]

Playng differrently is fine.

 

Being locked into limited competitive builds because of nonsensical restrictions. Not fine

 

Looking at how OP the Magnus & the T-Sons are. Totally raging!!

 

So what kind of list would you put together Bulbafist?

Edited March 8, 2017 by dantay_xv

[Jackalwolf]

Playng differrently is fine.

 

Being locked into limited competitive builds because of nonsensical restrictions. Not fine

 

Looking at how OP the Magnus & the T-Sons are. Totally raging!!

 

Fair point but everybody looses the comparison against Sekhmet terminators (new best unit in game) with best Primarch in game with a RoW that lets you take said best Primarch as HQ and still have another LoW whilst making said best unit in game as compulsory troops :)

 

But all in all, we're not that bad off :)

[TheWolfLord]

Keep in mind thanks to the latest WH40k FAQ scout doesn't happen until after sieze the initiative.

That was the draft FAQ, the final FAQ reversed that answer.

[Runefyre]

 

Keep in mind thanks to the latest WH40k FAQ scout doesn't happen until after sieze the initiative.

That was the draft FAQ, the final FAQ reversed that answer.

 

That sucks.

 

 

I've been hearing SW rules are some of the strongest in the game...

They have strong rules, but you wouldn't believe it from reading this thread. People are upset they play differently than they expected.

 

It's not for lack of trying.....I've been list-building in my head like non-stop lol. I always end up feeling like I'm just a couple rules adjustments away from being truly versatile....as is we're extremely restricted in what we can bring because of all the HQ's, but alot of the time there's not enough places to put them....

[Runefyre]

For kicks and giggles I've thrown together what I consider a decent Orbital Assault list.

 

Note: My group plays null deployment as legal and Dreadnought Talons are treated as a single pod for the purposes of DPA.

 

2500 points Orbital Assault

 

Praetor (Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, aetherune armour, melta bomb)

 

Command squad (combat shields, power weaopns, dreadclaw DT)

 

speaker of the Dead (great frost blade, artificer armour)

 

(2x) grey slayer squads (2x power weapons, 2x combi-weapons, nuncio vox, Huscarl: AA, GFB, Drop Pod DT)

 

Legion dreadnought talon (3x legion dreadnoughts, 3x flamestorm cannons, 3x graviton guns, 2x HK missiles each, Frag Assault Launchers, Dreadnought Drop Pod DT)

 

Deathsworn squad (9 dudes, rad grenades, power fist, dreadclaw DT)

 

Legion Terminator squad (5 power fists, 5 combi-weapons)

[sturguard]

I'm not really understanding the Woe-is-me attitude about these rules. They're fairly straightforward but strong rules. The only duds for me are the Varangyr Terminator dudes and the whole mix up on the Frost Weapons.

 

Both of the Rites are usable.  

 

You even got a good troops choice at a great points cost in the Grey Slayers.     

 

Russ is a powerhouse, no he doesn't buff his army, but that's not really what you would expect from Russ is it?  

Please provide a strong list using Pale Hunter, I for one would love to see it. You know you guys are quick to judge the four or five of us that are trying to piece together lists, page by page- that should tell you something.

[sturguard]

 

 

I've been hearing SW rules are some of the strongest in the game...

From where lol.

People complained about Russ' leaked rules but this is Russ at his peak by the end of the heresey I assume most traitor primarchs will hand him his own arse. And really he only excels at fighting there primarchs he's worse vs basically anything else.

From here...

 

http://warpstoneflux.blogspot.tw/2017/03/horus-heresy-review-space-wolves-legion.html?m=1

 

This guy off his rocker?

 

 

This guy just takes the rules in isolation but doesnt try to put together a competitive build. Again, I'd love to see him put a list together for Pale Hunter that would compete with the better builds out there. Its very easy to criticize other folks or simply say "no, the rules are so strong" but then not go through the process of actually putting a list together.

[sturguard]

For kicks and giggles I've thrown together what I consider a decent Orbital Assault list.

 

Note: My group plays null deployment as legal and Dreadnought Talons are treated as a single pod for the purposes of DPA.

 

2500 points Orbital Assault

 

Praetor (Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, aetherune armour, melta bomb)

 

Command squad (combat shields, power weaopns, dreadclaw DT)

 

speaker of the Dead (great frost blade, artificer armour)

 

(2x) grey slayer squads (2x power weapons, 2x combi-weapons, nuncio vox, Huscarl: AA, GFB, Drop Pod DT)

 

Legion dreadnought talon (3x legion dreadnoughts, 3x flamestorm cannons, 3x graviton guns, 2x HK missiles each, Frag Assault Launchers, Dreadnought Drop Pod DT)

 

Deathsworn squad (9 dudes, rad grenades, power fist, dreadclaw DT)

 

Legion Terminator squad (5 power fists, 5 combi-weapons)

 

Runefyre-

So this was a question I asked in the rules section and never really got a definitive answer for.

 

Lets say I am using Orbital Assault and take a Contemptor Talon of 3 pods.

Lets also say I have 3 other squads using drop pods.

So thats a total of 6 pods right.

So turn 1 do 3 drop pods come down

Or

Do the 3 Contemptor pods come in the same turn and count effectively as 1 drop, then I would drop 1 of the remaining 3 pods, so essentially it would be 2 pods dropping and 2 still in reserve?

 

Or is this one of those rules that folks are split?

[Runefyre]

 

For kicks and giggles I've thrown together what I consider a decent Orbital Assault list.

 

Note: My group plays null deployment as legal and Dreadnought Talons are treated as a single pod for the purposes of DPA.

 

2500 points Orbital Assault

 

Praetor (Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, aetherune armour, melta bomb)

 

Command squad (combat shields, power weaopns, dreadclaw DT)

 

speaker of the Dead (great frost blade, artificer armour)

 

(2x) grey slayer squads (2x power weapons, 2x combi-weapons, nuncio vox, Huscarl: AA, GFB, Drop Pod DT)

 

Legion dreadnought talon (3x legion dreadnoughts, 3x flamestorm cannons, 3x graviton guns, 2x HK missiles each, Frag Assault Launchers, Dreadnought Drop Pod DT)

 

Deathsworn squad (9 dudes, rad grenades, power fist, dreadclaw DT)

 

Legion Terminator squad (5 power fists, 5 combi-weapons)

 

Runefyre-

So this was a question I asked in the rules section and never really got a definitive answer for.

 

Lets say I am using Orbital Assault and take a Contemptor Talon of 3 pods.

Lets also say I have 3 other squads using drop pods.

So thats a total of 6 pods right.

So turn 1 do 3 drop pods come down

Or

Do the 3 Contemptor pods come in the same turn and count effectively as 1 drop, then I would drop 1 of the remaining 3 pods, so essentially it would be 2 pods dropping and 2 still in reserve?

 

Or is this one of those rules that folks are split?

 

RaW Talon pods are treated as separate pods, but whatever turn they happen to arrive on they still must attempt to land within 6" of the other pods from the Talon.

 

Some groups (mine included) have ruled that a talon of pods is treated as a single drop pod for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault special rule for the simple reason that it makes fluff sense.

 

But if you're up against a by-the-book opponent, in your example you would have to treat the Talon pods as separate. That's not always a bad thing btw.

[Runefyre]

I'm not really understanding the Woe-is-me attitude about these rules. They're fairly straightforward but strong rules. The only duds for me are the Varangyr Terminator dudes and the whole mix up on the Frost Weapons.

 

Both of the Rites are usable.  

 

You even got a good troops choice at a great points cost in the Grey Slayers.     

 

Russ is a powerhouse, no he doesn't buff his army, but that's not really what you would expect from Russ is it?  

Russ's whole shtick is he's a Barbarian on the outside, but it's just a rouse covering a cunning and brilliant warlord.

 

I'm very disappointed he doesn't do much to aid his men. Some of his rules just don't make sense. Like him having Acute Senses but no way to actually outflank (other than Red-blade, but that just feels really stupid, a Jarl ordering Russ around!?).

[Nova_chron]

Pale hunter would be much better idea we got outflank/scout for taking the RoW. Edited March 8, 2017 by Nova_chron

[Baluc]

If you cherry pick rules in isolation rules for assault always look strong.

 

SW could probably be one of the best Primarch in a Spartan army, if you assume that is a strong list. If you don't want to play that way I would very much like to see the "SW are strong" people come up with a list.

 

The easiest way to make OA dread talons work is they count as 3 pods but have 1 reserve roll for all 3 pods.