[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Hrolf the Cunning]

Hey guys, is there a current list of Queries we are sending to FW for clarification? these are my thoughts anyway

Space wolves army selection –

·         Do command squads count as compulsory HQs

·         Do the Wolfkin count as compulsory HQs

ROW

·         Pale hunters

o   Clarification of artillery type units – legion artillery tanks?

·         Bloodied Claw

o   Does immobile include drop pods, as this is specifically mentioned in other ROW

o   What slow and purposeful units are actually in the Legion list? Cataphractii, no longer has this rule right?

Equipment

·         Specialist weapon on the frost blade and axe? Axe is literally pointless at present

 

Units

·         Deathsworn – combat shields option?

·         Vargyr

o   Priced as though they should all have 2 wounds, is this an error?

·         Grey slayers –

o   Can huscarl take Fenrisian great frost blade? (I don’t think so)

·         Priests of Fenris

o   Why do they only have initiative 4 when all other consul level characters have 5, please tell me this is a typo as I can’t think of a rational reason for it

o   Oversight not to include bike/jetbike/jump-pack options?

·         Russ

o   Does Russ’ Circle of the Varagyr rule override the LA: Space wolf rule with regards to compulsory troops choices?

[Runefyre]

That sounds about right.

 

I'd also like clarification regarding whether Hvarl and Geigor count as our mandatory praetor or centurion (Hvarl IS a Jarl and Geigor IS a Claw Leader, and the description for the mandatory HQ says that's what they're representing).

 

Also can Hvarl and Geigor take fenrisian wolves? Geigor has two with him in his entry picture.

 

Also why is the Caster of Runes so obviously worse than a speaker? The speaker grants fearless, fnp (5+), preferred enemy (infantry), and has a neat shooting attack. The CoR gets just ML1 to start and the ability to re-roll deny the witch, at the cost of only being able to use 4 warp charge dice at a time. seems a little bit disparate. Was the runic matrix supposed to grant some protection against perils of the warp or aid in casting (improving it to a 3+)?

 

Also why White Scars get to Hit and Run a full 3d6 inches in a chogorian brotherhood (even with terminators no less) while space wolves in a pale hunters cadre are forced to 2d6" and terminators are barred.

[Hrolf the Cunning]

Yeah, all good points man. I'm assuming people have sent similar lists along to FW already aye. I'll add the points you've made and send mine along, the thing is it's FWs best interests to address some of these queries as it is likely to dictate people's purchases to some degree. 

[Baluc]

Assuming the Dreadnoughts are mortis the only thing is a bit of a risky proposition is foot slogging Hvarl (With the 14 gs I assume) since you're a bad roll away from giving slay the warlord and loosing your main CC asset.

 

Other than that it's quite solid, it's like a death guard mixed with white scars, a lot of infantry coming your way with big gun support, but suddenly they're fast, scout, hit and run and pack a punch.

 

No regular dreads, I want to close combat ability to go along side any foot slogging unit. 

 

In someways footslogging unit is a target on purpose, the idea being making it difficult for the opposition to make choices. I definitely think a vigilator might be better in the long run for stealth and the additional scout for the unit, allowing me to outflank all 4 infantry units or some mix of the 4. Stealth against templates and fnp against things like frag mortars and small arms fire, and a 3rd great frost blade doesn't hurt in combat either. 

 

But to be honest the welfare of that unit is mostly unimportant its a compulsory troop and gives me a place to through red-blade. 

[Dantay VI]

Been reading more and more of Inferno and it makes quite a few eferences to seeker squads and pale hunter war packs being used against T-Sons in Tizca..

[Jackalwolf]

So just tried writing a list around the models I actually have.

 

The Rout (3000)

Vlka Fenryka

 

Bjorn Ironside (Hvarl Red-Blade) 210

 

Floki (Speaker of the Dead): Artificer armour; Great Frost blade 125

• 2 Fenrisian Wolves 20

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ 100

 

Hunters of Kattegat (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Power weapon); Warrior's Mettle; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 5 × Power weapon 230

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Raiders of Hedeby (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Combi-weapon; Power weapon); Machine Killers; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 6 × Combi-weapon; 2 × Missile launcher and suspensor web; Power weapon 310

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Kingslayers (5 Varagyr Terminators): 5 × Second Frost blade (axe, claw or sword); 4 × Power fist; Chainfist 300

 

15 Grey Slayers: Huscarl (Artificer armour; Bolt pistol; Frost weapon; Combat shield; Melta bombs); 14 Grey Slayers; 5 × Power weapon; 5 × Bolter; 4 × Combat shield; Frag and krak grenades 255

 

Gungnir (Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought): Two twin-linked lascannons 185

 

Leman Russ 455

 

Legion Mastodon Heavy Assault Transport 700

 

Despite running Onslaught, I still have Scout in all my army, counter attack and all our other special rules so it does feel like I still have the bonuses of a RoW in there. I could also get +1 to reserves with 25 extra points if you think the trade is worth it.

 

Only thing I need to purchase for this list is 2x rhino and the grey slayers and the Contemptor whenever they're released.

 

Idea is all is in the Mastodon except by the Mortis and the two vet squads on rhinos, which can either deploy in the table behind the Low (and with my 12' scout I can make sure the Mastodon books line of sight to the rhinos and the mortis) or they outflank and, particularly the Hedeby unit with 7x combi plasma and 2x missile launchers with machine killers can take anything out of the board the turn they outflank, whilst the other vets with warrior's Mettle and 12' scout is pretty much a guaranteed charge in turn 2.

 

Plus I only repeat one unit while including all of the FW models specific for our Legion that will be released.

 

What are your thoughts, command Vox relay in exchange for the Mastodon battery? Different squad loadout?

 

Rules Q: can I scout the Mastodon given it has a unit with scout in it and it confers?

Edited March 11, 2017 by Grieux

[Jackalwolf]

This would be the alt list with scout and 2+ reserves to minimise going always second due to Onslaught and only have then the Mastodon on the table which is the most survivable unit in the game excluding warlord titans :)

 

The Rout (3000) copy

Vlka Fenryka

 

Bjorn Ironside (Hvarl Red-Blade) 210

 

Floki (Caster of Runes): Artificer armour 115

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ 100

 

Hunters of Kattegat (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Power weapon); Warrior's Mettle; 9 Veteran Space Marines; Missile launcher and suspensor web (Flakk missikes); 5 × Power weapon 265

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Raiders of Hedeby (9 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Power weapon); Machine Killers; 8 Veteran Space Marines; 6 × Combi-weapon; Missile launcher and suspensor web (Flakk missikes); Power weapon 283

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Kingslayers (5 Varagyr Terminators): 5 × Second Frost blade (axe, claw or sword); 4 × Power fist; Chainfist 300

 

15 Grey Slayers: Huscarl (Artificer armour; Bolt pistol; Frost weapon; Combat shield); 14 Grey Slayers; 5 × Power weapon; 5 × Bolter; 4 × Combat shield; Frag and krak grenades 250

 

Gungnir (Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought): Two twin-linked lascannons 185

 

Leman Russ 455

 

Legion Mastodon Heavy Assault Transport: Command vox relay 725

 

I've given Flakk to the missile launchers in this list to make up for the loss of the skyreaper battery and changed the Speaker of the Dead for a rune caster with divination for prescience in the machine killer veterans and give them more cc umph.

[sturguard]

So just tried writing a list around the models I actually have.

 

The Rout (3000)

Vlka Fenryka

 

Bjorn Ironside (Hvarl Red-Blade) 210

 

Floki (Speaker of the Dead): Artificer armour; Great Frost blade 125

• 2 Fenrisian Wolves 20

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ 100

 

Hunters of Kattegat (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Power weapon); Warrior's Mettle; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 5 × Power weapon 230

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Raiders of Hedeby (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Combi-weapon; Power weapon); Machine Killers; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 6 × Combi-weapon; 2 × Missile launcher and suspensor web; Power weapon 310

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Kingslayers (5 Varagyr Terminators): 5 × Second Frost blade (axe, claw or sword); 4 × Power fist; Chainfist 300

 

15 Grey Slayers: Huscarl (Artificer armour; Bolt pistol; Frost weapon; Combat shield; Melta bombs); 14 Grey Slayers; 5 × Power weapon; 5 × Bolter; 4 × Combat shield; Frag and krak grenades 255

 

Gungnir (Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought): Two twin-linked lascannons 185

 

Leman Russ 455

 

Legion Mastodon Heavy Assault Transport 700

 

Despite running Onslaught, I still have Scout in all my army, counter attack and all our other special rules so it does feel like I still have the bonuses of a RoW in there. I could also get +1 to reserves with 25 extra points if you think the trade is worth it.

 

Only thing I need to purchase for this list is 2x rhino and the grey slayers and the Contemptor whenever they're released.

 

Idea is all is in the Mastodon except by the Mortis and the two vet squads on rhinos, which can either deploy in the table behind the Low (and with my 12' scout I can make sure the Mastodon books line of sight to the rhinos and the mortis) or they outflank and, particularly the Hedeby unit with 7x combi plasma and 2x missile launchers with machine killers can take anything out of the board the turn they outflank, whilst the other vets with warrior's Mettle and 12' scout is pretty much a guaranteed charge in turn 2.

 

Plus I only repeat one unit while including all of the FW models specific for our Legion that will be released.

 

What are your thoughts, command Vox relay in exchange for the Mastodon battery? Different squad loadout?

 

Rules Q: can I scout the Mastodon given it has a unit with scout in it and it confers?

 

I would say no to scout as the mastadon isnt a dedicated transport and generally just a dedicated transport for a unit that has scout is conveyed.

[TheWolfLord]

Scout only confers to Dedicated Transports so wouldn't work on a Mastodon which is a shame but it's still an easy turn 2 charge

[Jackalwolf]

Thanks guys guess I might want to outflank the vet squads then since turn one will be dangerous if I can't reposition the Mastodon to be sure I give cover to the rhinos, no?

 

In that case would you guys go with list two?

[Hfran Morkai]

I actually forgot we can take a fair few standard counsel types.

 

And I do love the MoS sculpt, but given my Apothecaries probably a nightmare to convert to a more fitting member of the VIth (not WolfyMcWolfFace though).

[Dantay VI]

Apothecaries are easy :D

 

[Purge the Daemon]

I actually forgot we can take a fair few standard counsel types.

 

And I do love the MoS sculpt, but given my Apothecaries probably a nightmare to convert to a more fitting member of the VIth (not WolfyMcWolfFace though).

We can take a few consoles but a lot are largely wasted.

 

Vigilator is good for scout

 

Forge lord probably the best for rad grenades

 

Herald next useless the WS bonus caps at 5

 

Delegatus next to useless we have a mandatory Praetor or non consul so this isn't a good option

 

Chaplain can't take

 

Primus medicare can't take

 

Librarian can't take

 

Champion next to useless normally so even worse for us when we already have increased ws

 

Moritat bad in the current rules though we can take them

 

Master of signals actually good if you have the squad to use it

 

Siege breaker again good if you have a lascannon squad bad either our rights as you can't take phosphex mortars or artillery anyways

 

Praevain good if you want bots otherwise mediocre counter attack bots aren't to bad but not the most useful ones either

 

So like we still have some options but a lot are really useless.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[Runefyre]

Actually I plan to run Heralds when playing against Dark Angels. My buddy loves to spam stasis missiles and the additional +1 WS will help me alot.

 

 

 

If all goes well I'll be running another proxy game with the Wolves rules. It'll be a 3k match against my brother's questoris knight list with legion allies.

[Baluc]

The battle automata rules are dumb. Buying counter attack at 15 ppm when they have counter attack already as part of the legion inductii special rule. And, counter attack is one of the many special rules with the "at least one model" line. So even if you took a usr instead of LA:SW they would still have counter-attack.

[Purge the Daemon]

The battle automata rules are dumb. Buying counter attack at 15 ppm when they have counter attack already as part of the legion inductii special rule. And, counter attack is one of the many special rules with the "at least one model" line. So even if you took a usr instead of LA:SW they would still have counter-attack.

.

 

Sounds great I added this to the questions for fw thread in the space wolves forum.

[Runefyre]

So my match is postponed to tomorrow night.

 

Here's the basic idea of what I want to proxy.

 

Pale Hunters (3000 points)

 

Red-blade

 

praetor (refractor field, paragon blade) (geigor's model)

 

Speaker of the Dead

 

(2x) 20 dude grey slayer squads with a bunch of upgrades

 

(2x) 10 dude veteran squads with combi-weapons

 

10 dude terminator squad loaded with plasma blasters, power fists, and chainfists (all my HQ's go with them)

 

3x boxnoughts with lascannons (in a talon) (not proxys)

 

2x javelins

 

Sicaran (las-cannons, not a proxy)

 

fellblade (space marine crew) (not a proxy)

 

 

All the infantry outflank, only vehicles deploy.

 

My brother's bringing 4 knights, some gal vorbak and a leviathan.

 

I don't have many other tanks to proxy as my 40k wolves are pod based.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Runefyre

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Good luck and may the Emperor bless your dice.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

What do people feel about fielding Deathsworn with a Reader of Runes?

 

I played them last weekend with the Speaker of the Dead and they were moderately effective (laid a smack down on some Phalanx Warders)

 

But i got thinking. They can be accompanided by any Priest so would psychic powers assist them more than the Feel No Pain?

 

Also while they cant be accompanided by any other Independant Character (other than priests) what about apothacaries?

[Baluc]

What do people feel about fielding Deathsworn with a Reader of Runes?

 

I played them last weekend with the Speaker of the Dead and they were moderately effective (laid a smack down on some Phalanx Warders)

 

But i got thinking. They can be accompanided by any Priest so would psychic powers assist them more than the Feel No Pain?

 

Also while they cant be accompanided by any other Independant Character (other than priests) what about apothacaries?

I can't see what thwy would add. Maybe just drop the speaker of the dead to an apothecary are try that on for size. Too be honest they are an ok assault unit it kind of does what it says on the tin.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

What do people feel about fielding Deathsworn with a Reader of Runes?

 

I played them last weekend with the Speaker of the Dead and they were moderately effective (laid a smack down on some Phalanx Warders)

 

But i got thinking. They can be accompanided by any Priest so would psychic powers assist them more than the Feel No Pain?

 

Also while they cant be accompanided by any other Independant Character (other than priests) what about apothacaries?

I can't see what thwy would add. Maybe just drop the speaker of the dead to an apothecary are try that on for size. Too be honest they are an ok assault unit it kind of does what it says on the tin.

Honestly none of the powers available to then are a better buff than a Speaker.

 

Caster of runs is honestly a super mediocre choice in every sense 1 lvl2 isn't enough to reliably cast powers he's very expensive and aether rune armour grants half of his special rules. The disciplines he has are limited in buffs and really nothing is better there than prefered enemy infantry and FNP 5++

[Jackalwolf]

I'd only preffer a Caster of Runes with prescience in machine killer vets outflanking (Hvarl) with all combi plasma, 20 str 8 shots rerollable are bound to wreck any superheavy out there barring a Mastodon in a single volley.

 

EDIT: Actually just did the math and combi melta is better, 10 str 9 shots have exactly the same hp damage output without gets hot and with melta rule in case someone has not taken armored ceramite.

 

And that will likely kill all superheavies in a volley excepting typhon and cerberus with armored ceramite and the Mastodon.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Grieux

[Purge the Daemon]

I'd only preffer a Caster of Runes with prescience in machine killer vets outflanking (Hvarl) with all combi plasma, 20 str 8 shots rerollable are bound to wreck any superheavy out there barring a Mastodon in a single volley.

 

EDIT: Actually just did the math and combi melta is better, 10 str 9 shots have exactly the same hp damage output without gets hot and with melta rule in case someone has not taken armored ceramite.

 

And that will likely kill all superheavies in a volley excepting typhon and cerberus with armored ceramite and the Mastodon.

I feel like most super heavies will take ceramite it's like 20 points on a 600 points vehicle. Also while they can deal damage 9 man combi weapon squads with characters do drawn a lot of attention.

 

Like it's not bad and will :cuss on Knights if it survives. I feel a Speaker of the Dead is just more reliable and versatile. Even a master of signals is better in that case. Like if you don't get presidency of that's 150 points doing nothing for you that turn and with combi weapons you only really get the 1 turn.

[quinnwolf]

Afternoon chaps, I'm in the middle of building Tartaros armoured bodyguard to accompany my Wold Lord Praetor (paragon blade, combi melta). So i'm looking for load out, mainly for murdering elites with a little anti tank.

 

Also can the standard bearer be eqiupped with 2 weapons in addition to carrying the standard, i don't find the redbook entry or battlescribe clear. 

 

Doesn't have to be ultra competitive, just dont want to waste points or time building something ineffective. Ideally want two of them to carry paired claws just for looks. Pity they don't have access to frost weaponry as the nearest and dearest to the Jarl.

 

Ideas for 4 and 5 man variants please because would look to transport in either phobos or spartan

Edited March 12, 2017 by quinnwolf

[Jackalwolf]

 

I'd only preffer a Caster of Runes with prescience in machine killer vets outflanking (Hvarl) with all combi plasma, 20 str 8 shots rerollable are bound to wreck any superheavy out there barring a Mastodon in a single volley.

EDIT: Actually just did the math and combi melta is better, 10 str 9 shots have exactly the same hp damage output without gets hot and with melta rule in case someone has not taken armored ceramite.

And that will likely kill all superheavies in a volley excepting typhon and cerberus with armored ceramite and the Mastodon.

I feel like most super heavies will take ceramite it's like 20 points on a 600 points vehicle. Also while they can deal damage 9 man combi weapon squads with characters do drawn a lot of attention.

Like it's not bad and will :cuss on Knights if it survives. I feel a Speaker of the Dead is just more reliable and versatile. Even a master of signals is better in that case. Like if you don't get presidency of that's 150 points doing nothing for you that turn and with combi weapons you only really get the 1 turn.

You sir are 100% right. I'll get started on the conversion for when I want to use a more competitive loadout rather than fluffy.