[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Runefyre]

 

I'm actually using red blade to scout the slayers and the command squad up the field with the option to instead outflank machine destroyer vets.

 

I think it's pretty solid tactic. Plus red blades warlord trait is quite useful.

 

This is counter productive, since you can't assault, if you scout. An, and if you are getting assaulted its going to be by something that doesn't care about your counter attack. 

 

You are going to be better off keeping your grey slayers together in your deployment zone out of shooting range. And, getting rid of red-blade since he locks you into the cmd squad route.

You're not required to scout forward, it's a redeployment.

 

In the past I've made excellent use of scout in various instances to counter-counter deploy when I'm going first. It forces your opponent into making target choices right away.

 

 

What's not to like about h&r? It's excellent for getting away from zealot hordes, monstrous creatures and walkers. Anything that increases the survivability of my infantry I worth it imo.

 

And if I were to take a Damocles, that's 100 points not spent on something that can actually fight and hold objectives.

Hit and Run is great, I just dont think it will ever matter much with GS and Vets- I just dont think there will ever be much left of the unit to actually hit and run with. Hvarl and the command squad could really take advantage of it, so can Russ as they are survivable units but they cant make use of the rule. Id really like to know how many times you actually get to hit and run with the GS/Vet squads. If you build the list, keep me informed. Normally if those squads get caught they get slaughtered at least from what I have seen.

 

But what bonus will the vets/gs's get in another RoW? Furious Charge? Grey Slayers get that but if I'm running them in rhinos (as I am in Pale Hunters) it's very difficult to utilise. Vets get nothing other than the +1 combat resolution. Which is useless again elite units anyway.

 

So I'll take the added survivability and free reserve bonus.

 

I do intend to at least proxy play a list similar to the one I wrote. If I do I'll be sure to log the results here.

[Baluc]

 

 

I'm actually using red blade to scout the slayers and the command squad up the field with the option to instead outflank machine destroyer vets.

 

I think it's pretty solid tactic. Plus red blades warlord trait is quite useful.

 

This is counter productive, since you can't assault, if you scout. An, and if you are getting assaulted its going to be by something that doesn't care about your counter attack. 

 

You are going to be better off keeping your grey slayers together in your deployment zone out of shooting range. And, getting rid of red-blade since he locks you into the cmd squad route.

You're not required to scout forward, it's a redeployment.

 

In the past I've made excellent use of scout in various instances to counter-counter deploy when I'm going first. It forces your opponent into making target choices right away.

 

 

What's not to like about h&r? It's excellent for getting away from zealot hordes, monstrous creatures and walkers. Anything that increases the survivability of my infantry I worth it imo.

 

And if I were to take a Damocles, that's 100 points not spent on something that can actually fight and hold objectives.

Hit and Run is great, I just dont think it will ever matter much with GS and Vets- I just dont think there will ever be much left of the unit to actually hit and run with. Hvarl and the command squad could really take advantage of it, so can Russ as they are survivable units but they cant make use of the rule. Id really like to know how many times you actually get to hit and run with the GS/Vet squads. If you build the list, keep me informed. Normally if those squads get caught they get slaughtered at least from what I have seen.

 

But what bonus will the vets/gs's get in another RoW? Furious Charge? Grey Slayers get that but if I'm running them in rhinos (as I am in Pale Hunters) it's very difficult to utilise. Vets get nothing other than the +1 combat resolution. Which is useless again elite units anyway.

 

So I'll take the added survivability and free reserve bonus.

 

I do intend to at least proxy play a list similar to the one I wrote. If I do I'll be sure to log the results here.

 

 

Well... other than the benefit of being vets? You are also trading 2 heavy support, slots and drop pods to make grey slayers marginally better.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm actually using red blade to scout the slayers and the command squad up the field with the option to instead outflank machine destroyer vets.

 

I think it's pretty solid tactic. Plus red blades warlord trait is quite useful.

This is counter productive, since you can't assault, if you scout. An, and if you are getting assaulted its going to be by something that doesn't care about your counter attack.

 

You are going to be better off keeping your grey slayers together in your deployment zone out of shooting range. And, getting rid of red-blade since he locks you into the cmd squad route.

You're not required to scout forward, it's a redeployment.

 

In the past I've made excellent use of scout in various instances to counter-counter deploy when I'm going first. It forces your opponent into making target choices right away.

 

 

What's not to like about h&r? It's excellent for getting away from zealot hordes, monstrous creatures and walkers. Anything that increases the survivability of my infantry I worth it imo.

 

And if I were to take a Damocles, that's 100 points not spent on something that can actually fight and hold objectives.

Hit and Run is great, I just dont think it will ever matter much with GS and Vets- I just dont think there will ever be much left of the unit to actually hit and run with. Hvarl and the command squad could really take advantage of it, so can Russ as they are survivable units but they cant make use of the rule. Id really like to know how many times you actually get to hit and run with the GS/Vet squads. If you build the list, keep me informed. Normally if those squads get caught they get slaughtered at least from what I have seen.

But what bonus will the vets/gs's get in another RoW? Furious Charge? Grey Slayers get that but if I'm running them in rhinos (as I am in Pale Hunters) it's very difficult to utilise. Vets get nothing other than the +1 combat resolution. Which is useless again elite units anyway.

 

So I'll take the added survivability and free reserve bonus.

 

I do intend to at least proxy play a list similar to the one I wrote. If I do I'll be sure to log the results here.

Well... other than the benefit of being vets? You are also trading 2 heavy support, slots and drop pods to make grey slayers marginally better.

Don't forget the quad mortars, use able dreadnoughts....

 

It's honestly not worth it. Im personally feeling either Onslaught no row or maybe armoured assault.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Ok so usually i am super positive mr optimistic, but after reading through this thread again, it seems less like whiny and poor us but more like there is just no synergy at all. Like why the HQ restriction why no drop pods why cant priests get pack or bikes.... Maybe we will get a FAq in our favor?

That's honestly where I am, and why I'm working on my iron warriors atm

[Hfran Morkai]

We do have Drop Pods, in Orbital Assault which is pretty much the same for any Legion out there. Did we honestly expect a specific RoW for ourselves with a Drop Pod theme?

 

I'm not going to lie, I'm not experienced with gaming having not played since 5th but I'm somewhat optimistic. Yeah there's some stuff that has confused and irked me (I'd love to be able to run a Recon Company sometimes and all Frost Weapons being Specialist weapons is weird) but we've got to work with the hand we've been dealt.

 

I look forward to actually putting some models together, getting them painted and learning how to play my Wolves. We don't take the easy path, but the right one.

[betrayer41]

I am fine with that. I know veyr little, what would be the best ROW to start with, either SW or generic?

[Purge the Daemon]

We do have Drop Pods, in Orbital Assault which is pretty much the same for any Legion out there. Did we honestly expect a specific RoW for ourselves with a Drop Pod theme?

 

I'm not going to lie, I'm not experienced with gaming having not played since 5th but I'm somewhat optimistic. Yeah there's some stuff that has confused and irked me (I'd love to be able to run a Recon Company sometimes and all Frost Weapons being Specialist weapons is weird) but we've got to work with the hand we've been dealt.

 

I look forward to actually putting some models together, getting them painted and learning how to play my Wolves. We don't take the easy path, but the right one.

I mean there is a generic bike right of War and 2 legions have specific ones.

 

Word bearers have their own drop pod right of War.

 

Thousand Sons have their own pride of the Legion.

 

So it's definitely something that could have happened if FW wished it.

[Runefyre]

I am fine with that. I know veyr little, what would be the best ROW to start with, either SW or generic?

If I'm honest with myself, I'll probably be running Bloodied Claws the most. It's the most straight-forward and versatile Rite of War we've got (barring no access to quad mortars). Pale Hunters will probably be relegated to 1000 point matches.

 

Here's a 2500 point list I already have some models for, and as such is probably a guideline for what I'll work towards.

 

2500 points (Bloodied Claw)

 

Praetor (refractor field, paragon blade, uses Geigor Fell-hand's model)

 

(2x) speakers of the dead

 

Grey Slayer squad (20 dudes, 10 boltguns, 4 power fists, 5 power weapons, Huscarl: AA, GFB, goes in the spartan)

 

Grey Slayer squad (19 dudes, 10 boltguns, 3 power fists, 5 power weapons, Huscarl: AA, GFB, goes in the kharybdis)

 

Legion terminator squad (land raider phobos DT)

 

Spartan

 

Kharybdis

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Typhon

 

 

 

Given that I'll be attaching characters that lack the Warrior's Mettle special rule to the Grey Slayers, I thought it wise to invest in afew boltguns so I can at least get some use out of the special rule. There's nothing bad afew preferred enemy bolts. Plus I'll likely be re-rolling charge ranges anyway (possibly twice).

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

I am fine with that. I know veyr little, what would be the best ROW to start with, either SW or generic?

If I'm honest with myself, I'll probably be running Bloodied Claws the most. It's the most straight-forward and versatile Rite of War we've got (barring no access to quad mortars). Pale Hunters will probably be relegated to 1000 point matches.

 

Here's a 2500 point list I already have some models for, and as such is probably a guideline for what I'll work towards.

 

2500 points (Bloodied Claw)

 

Praetor (refractor field, paragon blade, uses Geigor Fell-hand's model)

 

(2x) speakers of the dead

 

Grey Slayer squad (20 dudes, 10 boltguns, 4 power fists, 5 power weapons, Huscarl: AA, GFB, goes in the spartan)

 

Grey Slayer squad (19 dudes, 10 boltguns, 3 power fists, 5 power weapons, Huscarl: AA, GFB, goes in the kharybdis)

 

Legion terminator squad (land raider phobos DT)

 

Spartan

 

Kharybdis

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Typhon

 

 

 

Given that I'll be attaching characters that lack the Warrior's Mettle special rule to the Grey Slayers, I thought it wise to invest in afew boltguns so I can at least get some use out of the special rule. There's nothing bad afew preferred enemy bolts. Plus I'll likely be re-rolling charge ranges anyway (possibly twice).

I feel it's probably better all boltguns/combi or none that way you can use run and charge or shoot and charge to the full extent.

[Runefyre]

Well, I'll never be able to run and charge thanks to speakers + praetor added to the grey slayers. The boltguns are cheaper than the power weapon dudes and can serve as overwatch fodder.

[sturguard]

Okay so how is this for a foundation for Pale Hunters 2500 pts

 

Praetor (with wolves) on bike w/ either Outriders (outflank) (400ish)

 

Vets w/combiplas-plas in Melta Rhino w/Speaker (350ish)

 

Vets w/combiplas-plas in Melta Rhino w/Speaker (350ish)

 

Vets w/missile launchers in Melta Rhino (220)

 

Vets w/missile launchers in Melta Rhino (220)

 

Lightning's w/krakens (225ish)

2x Javelins with MM and CML (130)

 

3x Vindicators w/laser destroyers (400ish)

 

So I have about 200 pts to play with, what to add in?

Edited March 8, 2017 by sturguard

[Ave_Dominus_Nox]

 

I'm not really understanding the Woe-is-me attitude about these rules. They're fairly straightforward but strong rules. The only duds for me are the Varangyr Terminator dudes and the whole mix up on the Frost Weapons.

 

Both of the Rites are usable.  

 

You even got a good troops choice at a great points cost in the Grey Slayers.     

 

Russ is a powerhouse, no he doesn't buff his army, but that's not really what you would expect from Russ is it?  

Please provide a strong list using Pale Hunter, I for one would love to see it. You know you guys are quick to judge the four or five of us that are trying to piece together lists, page by page- that should tell you something.

 

Sure, not a problem at all.  

 

-Pale Hunters 2k-

Hvarl Red-Blade  

 

Speaker of the Dead w/ Aether-rune armour  

 

Legion Terminator Squad in Cataphractii x8 w/ 6 combi-plas, 2 chainfists, sgt with grenade harness  

 

Legion Veteran Squad x10 (Marksman) in rhino w/ Vexilla, 2 Meltaguns, sgt with artificer and PF  

 

Grey Slayers x20 w/ Vexilla, 4 Power Swords, 2 PF, sgt with artificer and Great Frost Blade  

 

Grey Slayers x20 w/ Vexilla, 4 Power Swords, 2 PF, sgt with artificer and Great Frost Blade  

 

Javelin Attack Speeder x2 w/ CML, and 2 HK missiles  

 

Javelin Attack Speeder x2 w/ CML, and 2 HK missiles  

 

Lightning Strike Fighter w/ Battle Servitor Control, Ground-Tracking Auguries,  and Krakens.  

 

Hvarl Scouts everything forward, the rest of the list deploying from reserve to outflank (except the strike fighter ofc).

 

Every unit is capable of taking on pretty much anything else, be it infantry or vehicles.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Ave_Dominus_Nox

[sturguard]

Dominus-

Its a list and has a bit of everything sure, but I think it would struggle against any sort of shooty list.

 

The scouting is a 6 inch redeployment so you arent going far. The blobs just invite quad mortars to tear them up. The terminators cant shoot at much of anything for a few turns as they are on foot too. Besides the javelins and the one rhino - vet squad there isnt much mobility to the list. I wouldnt say its going to play with the better lists well.

[Ave_Dominus_Nox]

Dominus-

Its a list and has a bit of everything sure, but I think it would struggle against any sort of shooty list.

 

The scouting is a 6 inch redeployment so you arent going far. The blobs just invite quad mortars to tear them up. The terminators cant shoot at much of anything for a few turns as they are on foot too. Besides the javelins and the one rhino - vet squad there isnt much mobility to the list. I wouldnt say its going to play with the better lists well.

I mean to be fair, what don't quad-mortars tear up? If I get into assault ASAP they can't really shoot me as much as they'd like.

 

The Terminators can scout up with Hvarl, so they should be able to shoot something if the other army didn't completely null-deploy or is lined up on their table edge.

 

The only truly immobile unit in the army are the terminators, which is counter-acted by deploying as far forward as they can, scouting another 6, then continuing to move forwards. Grey Slayers are probably the most mobile Infantry in 30k, and excell in CC, so I wouldn't bother wasting points on bolters for them. The Legion rules lean towards CC, so I would rather just have units focusing on getting there ASAP.

 

The strength of the list is flexibility, every unit can tackle every other unit. It would take a-metric-ton of decent ap shooting to put all that viking steel coming at you down before it hit.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Ave_Dominus_Nox

[Runefyre]

There's no way that list would survive against the Leman Russ parking lots I face.

 

That's a big reason I rarely footslog anything if I can help it.

 

Our Solar Auxilia players are very good at countering the few tactics Close Combat themed armies have access to.

[Dantay VI]

Which is better for the Wolves, the Caestus Assault Ram or the Storm Eagle??

[Nova_chron]

I'm personally partial to the ram but that is mostly due to inferno talking about how they adapted them to assault the thousand sons pyramid complexes

[Jackalwolf]

The Caestus unless you're planning to run Pale Hunters, then the fact that one is Fast attack turns the table on it.

 

I think with very minor corrections our list would be really synergistic though:

- Priests of Fenris, Thegns and Jarls have Warrior's Mettle

- Russ gains outflank

- Clarity on Frost Weapons and option to take them on vet sergeants (why wouldn't they have them is beyond me)

- Option for Deathsworn to take Jump Packs

 

I don't necessarily disagree with the Drop Pod and HS restriction for Pale Hunters, it's meant to showcase the ability of the SW to manouver better than any other army while in close quarters, and Drop Pods and Artillery is super static so it's fluffy and for me that's paramount.

 

Now to a question to the community. Instead of posting a list, how's this for a core for the army and what you'd build around it? (As one of our esteemed colleagues suggested ):

 

- Leman Russ

- 1x veteran squad CC oriented with Warrior's Mettle (kitted our sergeant, 6x power weapons and 1 special weapon, open to suggestions on that one) to represent the troops of Kattegat, in a multi melta Rhino

- 1x veteran squad Shooting oriented with Marksmen (kitted out sergeant with combi weapon, 7 combi weapons, 1 special weapon, 2 power weapons) to represent the troops of Hedeby, in a multi melta Rhino

- Hvarl Red-Blade representing Bjorn Ironside / Geigor Fell hand representing Ragnar Lothbrok (I guess for an optimised list it will have to be one or the other and Hvarl is the one fits more) 

- Speaker of the Dead

- Caster of Runes

 

Rite of War: Pale Hunter (I just like the concept too much )

So idea is the vets either deploy and scout forward or outflank if there's a gunline to ensure they survive turn 1 and get to shoot at the gunline. If they outlank I still can scout two units forward, presumably whatever I put Russ with and another one, so I'm 12' up the field in turn 0

 

Caveats:

- I like having diverse modelling opportunities, so if you manage to suggest non spammy things I'll be super happy

- I'm almost resigned in this one, but I own a Mastodon which I'll use in 3,000 and over with Onslaught, so if you'd be able to build something without a Spartan it would be awesome

 

Initial thoughts are though a Spartan for Russ and whatever is with them and a Land Raider Proteus with Exploratory Augury Web for a second unit going forward in turn one (2+ reserves rerollable ).

 

Which of our specific units would fit best the non-assaulty nature of the Proteus? Deathsworn can take one as dedicated and, stiking at I0 with counter attack and attack before dead seem to be quite a good unit to dare someone to charge at.

 

Would a complement of Deathsworn in a Proteus and Hvarl with Varagyr coming in a Caestus work out fine?

EDIT: Proteus with Augury web gains Scout too, so that's 4 units that can Scout with Hvarl plus one vet squad that can outflank. That's pretty baller.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Grieux

[Dantay VI]

I havent read that part yet, will do so soon.

 

The Caestus is a far easier model to work with, but for game crunch... Which is better. I am puting a small SW air force together. Considering getting 2 Xiphons, which could proxy as Lightnings if needed, but again never used and no idea how good they would be.

 

Currently got 2 Fire Raptors, 1 Ram and 1 Storm Eagle.

[Dantay VI]

Lol, as a side-note, I reckon Pale Hunters is how FW want us to run our Wolves. 

 

Inferno page 89, exemplary battles. "The landings went unopposed and the Space Wolves Pale Hunter war packs quickly spread out"

 

Maybe means noting but thought it was a cool reference none the less. :)

[Baluc]

@Ave_dominus_nox

That whole army would get rolled by a single knight, let alone a typhon.

If blobs of dispoilers were a thing I think 8 years into heresy we would have seen something.

Very weak against tank shock and zero margin for deployment error.

 

@General thread

 

Please stop putting assault units in flyers. Turn 3 assaults are not ok.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Baluc

[Baluc]

Okay so how is this for a foundation for Pale Hunters 2500 pts

 

Praetor (with wolves) on bike w/ either Outriders (outflank) (400ish)

 

Vets w/combiplas-plas in Melta Rhino w/Speaker (350ish)

 

Vets w/combiplas-plas in Melta Rhino w/Speaker (350ish)

 

Vets w/missile launchers in Melta Rhino (220)

 

Vets w/missile launchers in Melta Rhino (220)

 

Lightning's w/krakens (225ish)

2x Javelins with MM and CML (130)

 

3x Vindicators w/laser destroyers (400ish)

 

So I have about 200 pts to play with, what to add in?

 

How do you have all the vets? Is this a Russ list? Also Fenrisian wolves are infantry so would slow the whole bike unit down to a 6" move.

[sturguard]

Yes I messed that up, I was thinking Primarch's Chosen, then didnt include Russ.

 

So 2 of those Vets would have to be dropped for 2 GS squads in Rhinos. The big question would be how to outflank them with the Vets outside of taking Hvarl I cant think of any.

[Purge the Daemon]

Yes I messed that up, I was thinking Primarch's Chosen, then didnt include Russ.

 

So 2 of those Vets would have to be dropped for 2 GS squads in Rhinos. The big question would be how to outflank them with the Vets outside of taking Hvarl I cant think of any.

You would have to deploy normally would lose transport room for the priests and would need to drop the combi plasma if you had more than 2 there.

[TheWolfLord]

@Ave_dominus_nox

That whole army would get rolled by a single knight, let alone a typhon.

If blobs of dispoilers were a thing I think 8 years into heresy we would have seen something.

Very weak against tank shock and zero margin for deployment error.

 

@General thread

 

Please stop putting assault units in flyers. Turn 3 assaults are not ok.

Why not flyers on a Skyshield for a turn 2 charge? It seems a great tool for adjusting to your opponents deployment as well.

Not an option for Pale Hunters but an option for other builds

 

Which is better for the Wolves, the Caestus Assault Ram or the Storm Eagle??

If you want to transport Russ, Freki and Geri your only choice from those is the Storm Eagle Edited March 9, 2017 by TheWolfLord