[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Purge the Daemon]

For the record, I did play against Iron Warriors (in kill team/zone mortalis, mind you) and was sorry for my opponent (7-2).

 

Outflanking can be tricky against a cunning general, and require both luck and good practise.

 

By the way, what's your experience with non compulsories troops such as breachers, assault, recon ? Does it water down a bit the list ?

Realistically wolves will do better in zone mortallis thenot other game modes simply due to all the line of sight blocking walls and shorter board length. Also 7-2 isn't really a feel sorry I assume it was kill points based zone mortallis most kill points based modes will tend to either be dead ties or snowballs simply because as the game goes on if you assume really winning they have less and less to fight back with. Iron warriors as a whole really like their rights of War and artillery which just don't play zone mortallis well but do incredibly well on a real board.

 

Honestly you really want to avoid assault marines breachers and recons, none of them really help you as while they can be decent compulsory as optional choices you don't actually want to spend half your list on troops as there are better scoring units like Veterans.

[Baluc]

I can see units like Assault squads and Recon squads being useful at 3.5K, in a pale hunter list. As you really need to leverage the troop slot to fill out points, and it gives you a "wave" like effect to your infantry.

 

Here is a more refined Pale Hunter list I came up with.

 

 

Hvarl Red-Blade

Warlord

 

Centurion

Great Frost Blade

 

Priest of Fenris

Speaker of the Dead

 

Legion Terminator Sqd

8 Terminators

3 power fists

2 Chain fists

2 combi-weapons

Catapharact Armour

 

Legion Veterans

9 Veterans

4 combi-weapons

1 power weapon

Rhino

Multimelta

 

Legion Veterans

9 Veterans

4 combi-weapons

1 power weapon

Rhino

Multimelta

 

10 Grey Slayers

2 combi-weapons

1 Great Frost Blade

 

10 Grey Slayers

2 combi-weapons

1 Great Frost Blade

 

Javilen Speeder

CML

2x Hunter killer missiles

 

Javilen Speeder

CML

2x Hunter killer missiles

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike-Fighter

Battle Servitor Control

Ground Tracking Auguries

2x Kraken Penetrator Missiles

 

Legion Sicaran battle tank

Lascannon Sponsons

 

Typhon Heavy Seige Tank

Lascannon Sponsons

 

Comes to 2500 on the dot. 

 

for 3k I would probably upgrade the typhon to a fellblade, and the sicaran to 2 Phobos and 1 Proteus with exploratory array. Which I think would put me a little bit over but I can tweak from there.

[Guest Drekkan]

 

For the record, I did play against Iron Warriors (in kill team/zone mortalis, mind you) and was sorry for my opponent (7-2).

 

Outflanking can be tricky against a cunning general, and require both luck and good practise.

 

By the way, what's your experience with non compulsories troops such as breachers, assault, recon ? Does it water down a bit the list ?

Realistically wolves will do better in zone mortallis thenot other game modes simply due to all the line of sight blocking walls and shorter board length. Also 7-2 isn't really a feel sorry I assume it was kill points based zone mortallis most kill points based modes will tend to either be dead ties or snowballs simply because as the game goes on if you assume really winning they have less and less to fight back with. Iron warriors as a whole really like their rights of War and artillery which just don't play zone mortallis well but do incredibly well on a real board.

 

Honestly you really want to avoid assault marines breachers and recons, none of them really help you as while they can be decent compulsory as optional choices you don't actually want to spend half your list on troops as there are better scoring units like Veterans.

 

 

Thanks for the reply, kt zm indeed prevents from heavy support bombardment, but as soon as combat patrol hit the board it will change.

 

Orbital assault would be nice and fluffy, when the campaign will be praetor scaled.

 

Regarding specialists, it does offer so many conversions opportunities that I'll still try to make it work.

[Baluc]

So... I've been looking at Pale hunter, and the Rulebook more closely. I've been devising, and scheming to the outer most limit of my imagination. 

 

There are a few options available, I'll break them up to into the point size games I think they would fit.

 

2.5 and less

 

Vindicator Squadron:

2x Laser Destroyers, 1x demolisher cannon

All with extra armour and Machine Spirit, Command tank to taste

 

Pretty self explanatory, gives you a variety of Heavy weapons from your one slot, that can all shoot at separate targets, extra armour and machine spirit so you can shot through those pesky stun results.

 

Fire Raptor:

Again diverse set of weapons, added bonus of not being on the board, would probably pair it will a fairly beefy LoW like a Fellblade or something with 12 or more hull points.

 

Sicaran:

Lascannon Sponsons

 

Its just a good tank lol

 

3k and up:

 

Malcador Squadron:

A ton of Guns, on a super heavy platform to shoot multiple targets, added bonus of not being 1 shot.

 

Land Raider Squadron:

2 Phobos

extra armour

1 Proteus

Exploratory Array

3rd lascannon

 

Gives the whole squadron Scout, letting you slam your compulsory troops outflank without using Red-Blade on them

Added benefits include Assault vehicles, and 7 lascannon shots w/ potentially 3 multi-meltas as well. 

 

Leviathan Talon:

3 Leviathan Dreadnoughts

1 w/ 2 stormcannons, 2 volkite, and phospex

2 w/ grav flux, Seige Drill, and phospex

[Runefyre]

Honestly I wouldn't put that much faith in a Fell-blade. In my 3k match it was stripped of 7 HP's by a podding leviathan in one round of shooting. It only survived because I sacrificed two boxnaughts to distract the levi. Even then the firepower is very underwhelming for the points spent.

 

On the other hand, my buddy who owns a falchion always kills something of value with it. Shock-pulse StrD works wonders on those cheesey Warhounds that pop up at 3k.

 

 

The LR squadron looks like a good idea imo. Outflanking AV14 is something your opponent can't take lightly, especially when if they don't there's some nasty assaults that are going to happen. Likely involving the Fury of the Pack rule. Malcador's are good but I have a hard time justifying them in my theme I want for my Wolves.

[Purge the Daemon]

So... I've been looking at Pale hunter, and the Rulebook more closely. I've been devising, and scheming to the outer most limit of my imagination.

 

There are a few options available, I'll break them up to into the point size games I think they would fit.

 

2.5 and less

 

Vindicator Squadron:

2x Laser Destroyers, 1x demolisher cannon

All with extra armour and Machine Spirit, Command tank to taste

 

Pretty self explanatory, gives you a variety of Heavy weapons from your one slot, that can all shoot at separate targets, extra armour and machine spirit so you can shot through those pesky stun results.

 

Fire Raptor:

Again diverse set of weapons, added bonus of not being on the board, would probably pair it will a fairly beefy LoW like a Fellblade or something with 12 or more hull points.

 

Sicaran:

Lascannon Sponsons

 

Its just a good tank lol

 

3k and up:

 

Malcador Squadron:

A ton of Guns, on a super heavy platform to shoot multiple targets, added bonus of not being 1 shot.

 

Land Raider Squadron:

2 Phobos

extra armour

1 Proteus

Exploratory Array

3rd lascannon

 

Gives the whole squadron Scout, letting you slam your compulsory troops outflank without using Red-Blade on them

Added benefits include Assault vehicles, and 7 lascannon shots w/ potentially 3 multi-meltas as well.

 

Leviathan Talon:

3 Leviathan Dreadnoughts

1 w/ 2 stormcannons, 2 volkite, and phospex

2 w/ grav flux, Seige Drill, and phospex

In the vindicators the command tank is wasted with that load out as it requires then to shoot at the same target. I like them as a unit but they are very fragile and susceptible to alpha strike death especially due to squadron res carrying over the hulk points.

 

The Fire Raptor I like as a unit but you defintely need a good anchor know the board if you want to reserve even more units.

 

Sicaran both versions yep things just good for its points.

 

I'm still not sold on Malcadors personally they shoot a lot and are hard to kill but they don't bring a lot of reliable anti tank for a large points cost which kind of scares me but they are very good at killing most other things.

 

The land Raider squadron it can work I would defintely scout over reserving it as outflank is way to many points gone. Unfortunately you can't split land Raider squadrons machine spiriting helps but its not perfect I find they are a lot of points to as that squad runs you about 700 hard to kill but you've really got to use them for the right units up the field to be worth their points.

 

Leviathans a full squad also runs you about 1k points they look tons of cool I'm not sure I'm sold on footslogging them though.

 

One of the other potentially cool options are Predator squadrons nice and cheap and can take a host of cool weaponry as well as being able to machine spirit main guns then shoot sponsons somewhere else.

[Baluc]

The main strength of the Fellblade and Malcadors, is that its not going to be removed in 1 turn. Giving you a chance to bring units on and put the pressure on right way. You can and should also deploy some bubble wrap to protect from alpha strike. 

 

Most of the units in Heavy and LoW that deploy need to combo well, to deal with a variety of targets turn 1. Which is why I think I favour the Fellblade, and Squadron combination in an "all-comers" style list. So either a Vindicators or Malcadors. They are good anchors against getting wiped turn 1. In both cases I would deploy grey slayers as "bubble" wrap against Drop Levi's and the like. Keep a board edge, a building and a unit of slayers around the tanks so they can't get within 6". 

 

What made me ok, with footslogging Levis especially mutiples is that you are amassing your forces for a turn 3 assault, but really at turn 2 shooting phase anyway. So going first and running instead of shooting is probably not terrible anyway. 

[Runefyre]

A falchion provides the same survivability as a Fellblade, but with arguably more reliable firepower.

[Baluc]

A falchion provides the same survivability as a Fellblade, but with arguably more reliable firepower.

 

Only if you ignore being hull-mounted vs a turret. And, the fire power is relative to the version of D that you use. 40k is significantly less reliable than the older 30k D that is sometimes used. But, your point is valid. I think I just value the multiple templates against Custodes and mechanicum more. 

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

A falchion provides the same survivability as a Fellblade, but with arguably more reliable firepower.

Only if you ignore being hull-mounted vs a turret. And, the fire power is relative to the version of D that you use. 40k is significantly less reliable than the older 30k D that is sometimes used. But, your point is valid. I think I just value the multiple templates against Custodes and mechanicum more.

I think both defintely have their merits though I do like the shock pulse on the Falchion vs other super heavies. But both can pack pretty reliable damage but I think if running the Fellblade you probably need to being more anti tank as its slightly less reliable vs vehicles but if I recall it's also cheaper.

 

The Glaive is my favourite simply because it's really cool but it's honestly super lackluster.

[Runefyre]

 

 

A falchion provides the same survivability as a Fellblade, but with arguably more reliable firepower.

Only if you ignore being hull-mounted vs a turret. And, the fire power is relative to the version of D that you use. 40k is significantly less reliable than the older 30k D that is sometimes used. But, your point is valid. I think I just value the multiple templates against Custodes and mechanicum more.

I think both defintely have their merits though I do like the shock pulse on the Falchion vs other super heavies. But both can pack pretty reliable damage but I think if running the Fellblade you probably need to being more anti tank as its slightly less reliable vs vehicles but if I recall it's also cheaper.

 

The Glaive is my favourite simply because it's really cool but it's honestly super lackluster.

 

Fellblade and falchion are actually the same base price. But you always buy the neutron wave capacitor for the falchion so that bumps it up a small amount. Both obviously need Armoured ceramite and Space Marine crew.

[Runefyre]

I'm really beginning to like the look of a Pale Hunter's Mastadon. It provides a really durable transport for multiple hard-hitting units.

 

 

Pale Hunters 3000 points

 

Red-blade (goes with terminators)

 

Forge-Lord (rad grenades, AA, power weapon) (goes with terminators)

 

Speaker of the Dead (goes with deathsworn)

 

(2x) grey Slayer squads (20 dudes, 4x power fists, 5x power weapons, 10 combat shields, Huscarl: AA, GFB) (outflanking thanks to Red-blade)

 

terminator squad (5 power fists)

 

deathsworn squad (power fist)

 

xiphon pattern interceptor (ground tracking auguries)

 

(2x) javelins (las-cannons)

 

(2x) javelins (las-cannons)

 

Leviathan siege dreadnought (storm cannon, siege drill)

 

Mastadon (terminators, deathsworn, and leviathan are deployed in the mastadon)

[Baluc]

Levi can't go in a mastadon. But ignoring that... there is almost no situation I would rather have a mastadon over a Warhound. 

 

The more I think about it the more I like the 3 Land Raiders @3k also gives me a place to hide Red-Blade.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Baluc

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Land raiders are perfect for SW.

[Jackalwolf]

Mastodon is amazing mate, and just looks like a Longboat!

[Runefyre]

Levi can't go in a mastadon. But ignoring that... there is almost no situation I would rather have a mastadon over a Warhound. 

 

The more I think about it the more I like the 3 Land Raiders @3k also gives me a place to hide Red-Blade.

Derp, didn't notice that lol. I'll just change it out for a contemptor.

 

I personally have a thing against warhounds, they feel like such a crutch. My preference has always been legion heavy assets over titan assets.

 

Mastodon is amazing mate, and just looks like a Longboat!

Have you played any games with your mastadon? I'd love to hear any advice you've got regarding it.

[Lord Blackwood]

I feel like its ( the mastodon ) a lot of points to burn  and  pretty much tells your opponent  "  Kill This " 

Two guys in my area are working on them , so I  guess I w ill have some first hand experience against them soon 

[betrayer41]

I feel like its ( the mastodon ) a lot of points to burn  and  pretty much tells your opponent  "  Kill This " 

 

Two guys in my area are working on them , so I  guess I w ill have some first hand experience against them soon 

Def let us know how that goes....i am really eyeing one

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

I feel like its ( the mastodon ) a lot of points to burn and pretty much tells your opponent " Kill This "

 

Two guys in my area are working on them , so I guess I w ill have some first hand experience against them soon

Def let us know how that goes....i am really eyeing one

Same here I really want one. I don't think they are the be all and end all at 700 points (cost of 2 upgraded Spartans) but it's cool and defintely can absorb firepower.

[Grimtooth]

I have planned for Spartans in smallish games and then Mastadon would be my next step.

 

After going through this thread in its entirety I am starting to see a shift towards that massed infantry route in Pale Hunters. Just to add a observation; this last weekend I saw Wolves versus Salamanders. Lots of bodies on both sides, but Wolves player ended up basically running over him winning 10-2 on VPs. Thoughts?

 

Redblade is amazing in offense and defense

 

Russ wrecks Contemptors like it is going out of style

 

Deathsworn are LEGIT as long as they don't get wiped out in prior initiative step.

 

GS blobs work awesome with Vet Packs. Multi charge units to hold them up for Vet squad advance and subsequent charge

[TheWolfLord]

 

 

I feel like its ( the mastodon ) a lot of points to burn and pretty much tells your opponent " Kill This "

Two guys in my area are working on them , so I guess I w ill have some first hand experience against them soon

Def let us know how that goes....i am really eyeing one

Same here I really want one. I don't think they are the be all and end all at 700 points (cost of 2 upgraded Spartans) but it's cool and defintely can absorb firepower.

From my experience unless my opponent has D or massed Haywire I'm 100% confident it won't be destroyed first turn. By turn 2 its 18" up the table and my assault units are charging out into my opponents deployment so they'll have bigger threats to worry about than the Leviathan.

 

It's a very points efficient choice for 3-4 units and better value than individual Land Raiders and Spartans.

 

You need to be aware that if it is destroyed it's likely you'll lose most of the models being transported unless they have a decent invuln save.

 

If your opponent regularly brings a Titan with multiple D shoots it's best to leave at home though.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Mastadon is one dimensional but very very good 1D. Thumbs up !

[Guest Drekkan]

I have planned for Spartans in smallish games and then Mastadon would be my next step.

 

After going through this thread in its entirety I am starting to see a shift towards that massed infantry route in Pale Hunters. Just to add a observation; this last weekend I saw Wolves versus Salamanders. Lots of bodies on both sides, but Wolves player ended up basically running over him winning 10-2 on VPs. Thoughts?

 

Grey slayers have the upper hand against mass infantry.

[Jackalwolf]

I'm still pending building it! I'm quite strict with myself with my painting order (I never ever play anything not fully painted) so the Mastodon is my hobby reward when I finish my two vet squads.

 

But yes, take the plunge! Pale Hunter with everything outflanking and a Mastodon to hold the line turn 1 should work wonders, plus you get one of the best anti air anti grav gun in game for freesies and the brutal melta beam for when you're up close and personal.

 

Plus it looks amazing:

 

http://www.scarsminimadness.nl/blog/commission/ironwarriorsmastadongroup1.jpg

http://www.scarsminimadness.nl/blog/commission/worldeaterjohngroup2.jpg

 

These are from Remi, from Scars mini madness, one of the best painters out there but you get the gist!

 

(https://www.scarsminimadness.nl/)

[Purge the Daemon]

The mastodon is decently survivable against most conventional weapons but besides the AA gun it really lacks in firepower. 2 single lascannons 2 heavy flamers and the melta array (looks good until vs flare shields it's s7 and vs armoured ceramite doesn't even get the melta)

 

I like the unit and still probbably will get one but at 700 points it does not bring a lot of firepower.