[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[TheWolfLord]

Divination isn't a bad Discipline for a Caster of Runes. The ability to reroll is hit is always useful for a unit you'll want to target a nasty unit and make sure it dies. Great.

 

Forewarning gives the Deathsworn a 4++ save which is amazing, they become as tough as Cataphractii with non of the downsides. Outstanding.

 

Precognition helps the unit in combat as the Caster rerolls all failed to hit, wound and armour saves. Because of the rules for IC if the Caster is the only model to survive until I1 the Deathsworn will all get to attack still and destroy their opponents. Average.

 

Misfortune lets the Deathsworn deal with AV12-14 targets as it gives rending attacks against the target. Not the ideal target for Deathsworn but it gives you options and if armed with a couple of fists they'll destroy any vehicle they target. Average.

 

Scriers Gaze allowing rerolls of reserves and outflank sounds pretty key to a lot of people's tactics as well. Depending on tactics Useless to Key.

 

Biomancy is almost as good.

 

Smite weakens your charge target meaning you'll lose less Deathsworn before I1. Average.

 

Iron Arm helps the Caster survive thus making sure the Deathsworn can attack at I1 even if they are all wiped out. Average.

 

Enfeeble, if you've got Rad Grenades and Enfeeble you'll insta kill T4 units and will be wounding most Primarchs on 3+. -1S will reduce the damage they take too if they charge that unit. Great.

 

Warp Speed can turn a Caster with a Great Frost Blade into a scary prospect. 7 S5 ap2 attacks at I6 and likely hitting on 3+ will kill or weaken many threats protecting the Deathsworn and making sure they get to I1 to attack. Great.

 

Endurance gives Eternal Warrior and a 4+ FNP. Great.

 

Even Telekinesis gets some very useful powers given the Deathsworns and Space Wolves weaknesses

 

There's a chance you'll get useless powers but 75% are very useable and can help the Deathsworn directly or your army as a whole. As you roll powers before deployment you can always place the Caster elsewhere if the powers aren't suited to the Deathsworn.

[Purge the Daemon]

Divination isn't a bad Discipline for a Caster of Runes. The ability to reroll is hit is always useful for a unit you'll want to target a nasty unit and make sure it dies. Great.

 

Forewarning gives the Deathsworn a 4++ save which is amazing, they become as tough as Cataphractii with non of the downsides. Outstanding.

 

Precognition helps the unit in combat as the Caster rerolls all failed to hit, wound and armour saves. Because of the rules for IC if the Caster is the only model to survive until I1 the Deathsworn will all get to attack still and destroy their opponents. Average.

 

Misfortune lets the Deathsworn deal with AV12-14 targets as it gives rending attacks against the target. Not the ideal target for Deathsworn but it gives you options and if armed with a couple of fists they'll destroy any vehicle they target. Average.

 

Scriers Gaze allowing rerolls of reserves and outflank sounds pretty key to a lot of people's tactics as well. Depending on tactics Useless to Key.

 

Biomancy is almost as good.

 

Smite weakens your charge target meaning you'll lose less Deathsworn before I1. Average.

 

Iron Arm helps the Caster survive thus making sure the Deathsworn can attack at I1 even if they are all wiped out. Average.

 

Enfeeble, if you've got Rad Grenades and Enfeeble you'll insta kill T4 units and will be wounding most Primarchs on 3+. -1S will reduce the damage they take too if they charge that unit. Great.

 

Warp Speed can turn a Caster with a Great Frost Blade into a scary prospect. 7 S5 ap2 attacks at I6 and likely hitting on 3+ will kill or weaken many threats protecting the Deathsworn and making sure they get to I1 to attack. Great.

 

Endurance gives Eternal Warrior and a 4+ FNP. Great.

 

Even Telekinesis gets some very useful powers given the Deathsworns and Space Wolves weaknesses

 

There's a chance you'll get useless powers but 75% are very useable and can help the Deathsworn directly or your army as a whole. As you roll powers before deployment you can always place the Caster elsewhere if the powers aren't suited to the Deathsworn.

They are okay in Deathsworn but a Speaker garuntees decent abilities and I really don't think you want both as rhetoric unit will be over 600points without transports.

 

Also speaker are really bad at making sure powers go off as they are capped at 4wc meaning 3wc powers have a less than 50% of going off. Nevermind due to low amount of mastery levels in a wolf army a bad psychic dice role means you do nothing.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[TheWolfLord]

I agree its a riskier strategy but also has larger potential rewards.

 

None of the powers Casters have access to are WC3 so at worse there's a 50% chance, Forewarning is amazing on Deathsworn and only WC1.

 

I'm not suggesting both Priests in a Deathsworn unit but having both in the army lets you decide after drawing powers where to put them. If you draw Prescience, Forewarning and another useful power stick them in the Deathsworn and let the Speaker buff another unit.

 

If the powers aren't suited to Deathsworn put the Speaker will them and the Caster elsewhere. The only thing a Caster can't replicate is Fearless. Prescience is statistically better than PE and Forewarning is better than FNP.

 

Like I said its riskier and on paper a Speaker is easier to use because of the guaranteed buffs but I don't agree that a Caster is always the worse choice for Deathsworn.

[sturguard]

Hey whomever is writing the list to FW, would you include why are fenrisian wolves infantry instead of beasts- just makes no sense.

Also, can a Forgelord take a bike?

[Purge the Daemon]

I agree its a riskier strategy but also has larger potential rewards.

 

None of the powers Casters have access to are WC3 so at worse there's a 50% chance, Forewarning is amazing on Deathsworn and only WC1.

 

I'm not suggesting both Priests in a Deathsworn unit but having both in the army lets you decide after drawing powers where to put them. If you draw Prescience, Forewarning and another useful power stick them in the Deathsworn and let the Speaker buff another unit.

 

If the powers aren't suited to Deathsworn put the Speaker will them and the Caster elsewhere. The only thing a Caster can't replicate is Fearless. Prescience is statistically better than PE and Forewarning is better than FNP.

 

Like I said its riskier and on paper a Speaker is easier to use because of the guaranteed buffs but I don't agree that a Caster is always the worse choice for Deathsworn.

While it has larger potential rewards you essentially will be trying to role for forearning every time as prescience is the Primaris. The issue is if you don't draw that and you rolled on divination the issue is the other powers while not bad don't really leave him a place. Like if he's meant to swap between him and a priest in a combat unit sure prescience helps them but the other powers are just not as good, like I'd say great if he rolls Forewarning but he's not easy to interchange. Speakers I find are good in dedicated combat units our biggest issue is survival as we do hurt in combat we just don't make it there easily.

 

The 1/3 chance of getting Forewarning I just don't rate as good enough. Like it's the power you really need if Deathsworn want to be worth it but when 2/3 games the choice just isn't great.

 

I feel psychers in 40k work only under rhe premis you field enough so you can garuntee powers then allocate. Like there aren't armies with just 1 psycher running around.

 

Ifor youd like to try it go for it but I feel a preists is more useful but neither really makes the unit worth buying. They are cool but no game winners.

[Memento Of Prospero]

You want a good divination spyker?

 

Take Ruuuuuubio!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I would always go with Speaker of the Dead since his FNP is a sure thing plus you can then field them as a retinue freeing up an elite slot.

[Jackalwolf]

Which heavy weapons would you recomment for my two vet squads, specifically for the machinekillers? 2x str 9 missile launchers with flakk seems pretty decent anti air but maybe melta is better to focus on destroying superheavies out of outflank due to the AP1 extra dmg in the damage table, since the other 8 will have combi meltas.

 

Thoughts?

[Purge the Daemon]

Which heavy weapons would you recomment for my two vet squads, specifically for the machinekillers? 2x str 9 missile launchers with flakk seems pretty decent anti air but maybe melta is better to focus on destroying superheavies out of outflank due to the AP1 extra dmg in the damage table, since the other 8 will have combi meltas.

 

Thoughts?

Missile launchers are very expensive it's probably better off running meltas they are more bang for your buck vs most targets as you simply get a ton more guns.

[Jackalwolf]

Roger that. How can I cheaply include air defence then since the Mastodon will have command vox relay.

[Purge the Daemon]

Roger that. How can I cheaply include air defence then since the Mastodon will have command vox relay.

I really liked the air defense on the Mastodon but other good options generally other flyers work well normal sicarans actually aren't bad with twin linked 6 shots and ignores jink. Heavy Support flak squads are okay not the greatest but not awful. Shatter shells quad mortars in a pinch can work.

[Jackalwolf]

It's just if I take the Mastodon air defence in onslaught either I have my vets in rhinos exposed in turn one (since you always go second) or if I outflank them they're much less reliable.

[Purge the Daemon]

It's just if I take the Mastodon air defence in onslaught either I have my vets in rhinos exposed in turn one (since you always go second) or if I outflank them they're much less reliable.

Mind if I ask what are you running inaide the beast I'm strongly considering doing a list around one I like he model and dislike our row so no downside besides second turn.

[Jackalwolf]

 

It's just if I take the Mastodon air defence in onslaught either I have my vets in rhinos exposed in turn one (since you always go second) or if I outflank them they're much less reliable.

Mind if I ask what are you running inaide the beast I'm strongly considering doing a list around one I like he model and dislike our row so no downside besides second turn.

 

 

Of course mate:

 

So just tried writing a list around the models I actually have.

 

The Rout (3000)

Vlka Fenryka

 

Bjorn Ironside (Hvarl Red-Blade) 210

 

Floki (Speaker of the Dead): Artificer armour; Great Frost blade 125

• 2 Fenrisian Wolves 20

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ 100

 

Hunters of Kattegat (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Power weapon); Warrior's Mettle; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 5 × Power weapon 230

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Raiders of Hedeby (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Combi-weapon; Power weapon); Machine Killers; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 6 × Combi-weapon; 2 × Missile launcher and suspensor web; Power weapon 310

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Kingslayers (5 Varagyr Terminators): 5 × Second Frost blade (axe, claw or sword); 4 × Power fist; Chainfist 300

 

15 Grey Slayers: Huscarl (Artificer armour; Bolt pistol; Frost weapon; Combat shield; Melta bombs); 14 Grey Slayers; 5 × Power weapon; 5 × Bolter; 4 × Combat shield; Frag and krak grenades 255

 

Gungnir (Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought): Two twin-linked lascannons 185

 

Leman Russ 455

 

Legion Mastodon Heavy Assault Transport 700

 

 

• Mastodon: Russ + Wolf-Kin + Speaker of the dead (death star 1), Hvarl + 5 varagyr (death star 2), 15 grey slayers or Mortis Dreadnought (depending on the list I face, If I feel the Mortis is toast in turn 1, I'll put him in and outflank the grey slayers with the speaker of the dead for survivability, otherwise grey slayers are in and Mortis out shooting from turn 1)
• Then the 2x vet squads in Rhinos outflanking if there's a gunline or starting behind the mastodon / scouting for advanced cover if not

[Purge the Daemon]

<p>

 

 

 

It's just if I take the Mastodon air defence in onslaught either I have my vets in rhinos exposed in turn one (since you always go second) or if I outflank them they're much less reliable.

Mind if I ask what are you running inaide the beast I'm strongly considering doing a list around one I like he model and dislike our row so no downside besides second turn.

Of course mate:

 

So just tried writing a list around the models I actually have.

 

The Rout (3000)

Vlka Fenryka

 

Bjorn Ironside (Hvarl Red-Blade) 210

 

Floki (Speaker of the Dead): Artificer armour; Great Frost blade 125

• 2 Fenrisian Wolves 20

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ 100

 

Hunters of Kattegat (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Power weapon); Warrior's Mettle; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 5 × Power weapon 230

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Raiders of Hedeby (10 Veteran Space Marines): Veteran Sergeant (Artificer armour; Combi-weapon; Power weapon); Machine Killers; 9 Veteran Space Marines; 6 × Combi-weapon; 2 × Missile launcher and suspensor web; Power weapon 310

• Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer blade; Pintle-mounted multi-melta 55

 

Kingslayers (5 Varagyr Terminators): 5 × Second Frost blade (axe, claw or sword); 4 × Power fist; Chainfist 300

 

15 Grey Slayers: Huscarl (Artificer armour; Bolt pistol; Frost weapon; Combat shield; Melta bombs); 14 Grey Slayers; 5 × Power weapon; 5 × Bolter; 4 × Combat shield; Frag and krak grenades 255

 

Gungnir (Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought): Two twin-linked lascannons 185

 

Leman Russ 455

 

Legion Mastodon Heavy Assault Transport 700

 

• Mastodon: Russ + Wolf-Kin + Speaker of the dead (death star 1), Hvarl + 5 varagyr (death star 2), 15 grey slayers or Mortis Dreadnought (depending on the list I face, If I feel the Mortis is toast in turn 1, I'll put him in and outflank the grey slayers with the speaker of the dead for survivability, otherwise grey slayers are in and Mortis out shooting from turn 1)
• Then the 2x vet squads in Rhinos outflanking if there's a gunline or starting behind the mastodon / scouting for advanced cover if not

I think you need a heavy support compulsory with Onslaught

 

Maybe drop the Mortis and grab a stock Sicaran or a deredro either does a similar thing.

 

Otherwise my base is very similar so far

 

Russ + wolves

Havrl

Speaker (AA gfb)

10 Tartaros (7pf 3chainfist 2 plasma blasters)

10 marksmen + Rhino (AA pf dozer blade)

10 marksmen + Rhino (AA pf dozer blade)

Mastodon

+540 points to choose from still

 

Was thinking

Sicaran Venator (dozer blade)

Sicaran (lascannon dozer blade)

Whirlwind Scorpius

And add command tank to the mastodon

 

If Varagyr get buffed I'd probably drop the Scorpius and change my Tartaros to 10 Varagyr 10 claws 7 fists 3 chain fists

Edited March 13, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[Jackalwolf]

Sounds like a hell of a list! I'm very limited by my slow speed of painting, but yeh, I'll totally change the contemptor for a Deredeo, that will make me feel much better against anti air if i decide to run Mastodon with CVR to increase outflank potential (it's still such a tough pill to swallow loosing the reaper battery tbh).

 

What's your preference in Deredeo weaponry? Autocannon seems the best anti flier, but the lascannon adds some good antitank UMPH.

[Runefyre]

Had my 3k match last night. Due to time constraints we had to call it at Turn 4.

 

Which left me with a narrow 3-2 victory!

 

Mission was Dominate and deployment was Hammer and Anvil.

 

My biggest takeaways are as follows:

 

1) I now consider terminators to be the only infantry survivable enough to outflank without a transport. While I was lucky enough to have lots of LoS blocking terrain when I outflanked, and I was really lucky (he was unlucky) with the blast scatters I felt like I was just wishing on a star that my Grey Slayers weren't just gonna get canned in the two rounds of shooting they have to withstand to charge anything. The terminators (with a speaker) are outstanding at surviving a huge amount of firepower. Just sucks that they don't get H&R. In future I will want my infantry in rhinos or land raiders when I outflank.

 

2) legion dreads suck. Alot. They die so frickin' easy. But you probably knew this already. Makes me sad because I love the boxnaughts I own.

 

3) This was probably due to the low amount of targets my opponent had, but I never once got the chance to use Fury of the Pack. It really is just a lack-luster bonus.

 

4) Red-blade is awesome. He killed a knight before it could swing, and survived the ensuing D-blast. I just wish he had artificer armour instead of terminator armour. If he did he'd be purpose made for Pale Hunters.

 

5) Hit and Run is extremely useful. Especially for getting my squishy power armoured units out of combat with knights.

 

6) The one boon of having all those outflanking infantry bodies is just sheer shock factor. Suddenly having 70+ infantry bodies in his own deployment zone really forced alot of target decisions for my opponent.  20 Grey Slayers look way more fearsome than they really are. Especially when I can't even attach of an apothecary to them.

 

7) Having all those outflanking scoring units was extremely useful for picking up objectives.

 

golly gee! moment of the game: 10 veterans (with just one power axe) miraculously beat and sweep advanced 10(!) gal vorak. Both my brother and I were just stunned. Gal Vorbak are usually a huge thorn in my side.

[Jackalwolf]

Ugh if I do swap for a Deredeo I might bash myself a bit on the head for not keeping this bad boy I converted and painted two years ago but ended up selling when I quit all my 40k armies to only focus on heresy!

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mHf7i_hv_fQ/VgB5pplN-HI/AAAAAAAAYxo/xS57FvPUhOY/s1600/Gugnir%2B1.JPG

 

On the other hand, it might be a good opportunity to make it better!

Edited March 13, 2017 by Grieux

[Purge the Daemon]

Sounds like a hell of a list! I'm very limited by my slow speed of painting, but yeh, I'll totally change the contemptor for a Deredeo, that will make me feel much better against anti air if i decide to run Mastodon with CVR to increase outflank potential (it's still such a tough pill to swallow loosing the reaper battery tbh).

 

What's your preference in Deredeo weaponry? Autocannon seems the best anti flier, but the lascannon adds some good antitank UMPH.

I honestly like the autocannons while the lascannon seems cool it's he'll of a lot more expensive. It's not bad though 2 twin linked shots and the double pen can defintely go for the kill but vs fliers which are mostly paper anyways 4 s8 sunder does just as much pain.

[Jackalwolf]

Yep, it's just in my list i am also lacking in anti ground heavy hitters so might kill two "birds" in one shot.

[Purge the Daemon]

Had my 3k match last night. Due to time constraints we had to call it at Turn 4.

 

Which left me with a narrow 3-2 victory!

 

Mission was Dominate and deployment was Hammer and Anvil.

 

My biggest takeaways are as follows:

 

1) I now consider terminators to be the only infantry survivable enough to outflank without a transport. While I was lucky enough to have lots of LoS blocking terrain when I outflanked, and I was really lucky (he was unlucky) with the blast scatters I felt like I was just wishing on a star that my Grey Slayers weren't just gonna get canned in the two rounds of shooting they have to withstand to charge anything. The terminators (with a speaker) are outstanding at surviving a huge amount of firepower. Just sucks that they don't get H&R. In future I will want my infantry in rhinos or land raiders when I outflank.

 

2) legion dreads suck. Alot. They die so frickin' easy. But you probably knew this already. Makes me sad because I love the boxnaughts I own.

 

3) This was probably due to the low amount of targets my opponent had, but I never once got the chance to use Fury of the Pack. It really is just a lack-luster bonus.

 

4) Red-blade is awesome. He killed a knight before it could swing, and survived the ensuing D-blast. I just wish he had artificer armour instead of terminator armour. If he did he'd be purpose made for Pale Hunters.

 

5) Hit and Run is extremely useful. Especially for getting my squishy power armoured units out of combat with knights.

 

6) The one boon of having all those outflanking infantry bodies is just sheer shock factor. Suddenly having 70+ infantry bodies in his own deployment zone really forced alot of target decisions for my opponent. 20 Grey Slayers look way more fearsome than they really are. Especially when I can't even attach of an apothecary to them.

 

7) Having all those outflanking scoring units was extremely useful for picking up objectives.

 

:cuss! moment of the game: 10 veterans (with just one power axe) miraculously beat and sweep advanced 10(!) gal vorak. Both my brother and I were just stunned. Gal Vorbak are usually a huge thorn in my side.

So I feel some of your main points are probably very true.

 

Most things will die if you outflank them terminators luckily are tanky enough but it's no garuntee vs some weapons of the heresey.

 

Boxnoughts probably the reason most people take Contemptor harder to kill and hit harder. Doesn't matter if you are cheaper I'd you just don't do anything.

 

Fury of the Pack just is like meh I'd have to agree it serves next to no purpose the real only use some for Freki and Geri to buff a unit.

 

Red Blade is really good idea argue probably the best thing we have access to I'd rate him almost an auto include. Which sucks on the one hand cause everyone will use the same special character but he's really good.

 

The hit and run vs Knights it's defintely useful because they just aren't good at killing infantry in melee but vs other infantry you just land up losing so much more it's mediocre not bad by any means but not great either.

 

Lots of outflanking infantry is basically a psychology experiment but vs some lists it's just feeding kill points. And yeah grey slayers toting with power weapons look killy but then you realize they are tactical marines who drank from khorne chalice and die just the same. I'm not hating on them I think they are okay but they shouldn't be treated like they will not die like tactical marines they really aren't inductii.

 

Outflanking scoring is defintely good but it can hurt in some missions where you score objectives every turn as you can miss out on quite a few with some bad luck.

 

 

Lorgar must have been asking the chaos gods for a refund on gene seed after seeing gal vorbak beat by veterans.

[Baluc]

@Runefyre

 

I'm looking at massing Outflanking infantry myself at 3k. At lower points I just don't think you can fit enough in the list to make it work, especially without heavy support to efficiently target other heavy support options.

 

I'm starting to really enjoy the thought of combat centurion in  Combi-weapon vets in a rhino w/ multimelta as my go too outflanking unit.

 

My only issue again is where to put Red-Blade, a Terminatorstar might work, Priest and Forge Lord maybe, Cataphracts and outflank. I'm starting to think Grey Slayers should just be cheap and on foot, and let them use their rules, give them some tools to do their job and call it a day. 

 

Need enough stuff on the baord to survive 2 turns and maybe failing some reserve rolls. Turn 3 charges for combat units is also frustrating. Pale hunter really needed turn 1 reserves or charge from outflank.

 

I'll work on a 2.5 and 3k version of this theory while I work over the next few hours.

[Purge the Daemon]

@Runefyre

 

I'm looking at massing Outflanking infantry myself at 3k. At lower points I just don't think you can fit enough in the list to make it work, especially without heavy support to efficiently target other heavy support options.

 

I'm starting to really enjoy the thought of combat centurion in Combi-weapon vets in a rhino w/ multimelta as my go too outflanking unit.

 

My only issue again is where to put Red-Blade, a Terminatorstar might work, Priest and Forge Lord maybe, Cataphracts and outflank. I'm starting to think Grey Slayers should just be cheap and on foot, and let them use their rules, give them some tools to do their job and call it a day.

 

Need enough stuff on the baord to survive 2 turns and maybe failing some reserve rolls. Turn 3 charges for combat units is also frustrating. Pale hunter really needed turn 1 reserves or charge from outflank.

 

I'll work on a 2.5 and 3k version of this theory while I work over the next few hours.

I'd defintely have to agree here the list wants you to use tons for reserves but without any garuanteed reserves or turn 1 you find yourself severely outnumbered.

[Baluc]

 

@Runefyre

 

I'm looking at massing Outflanking infantry myself at 3k. At lower points I just don't think you can fit enough in the list to make it work, especially without heavy support to efficiently target other heavy support options.

 

I'm starting to really enjoy the thought of combat centurion in Combi-weapon vets in a rhino w/ multimelta as my go too outflanking unit.

 

My only issue again is where to put Red-Blade, a Terminatorstar might work, Priest and Forge Lord maybe, Cataphracts and outflank. I'm starting to think Grey Slayers should just be cheap and on foot, and let them use their rules, give them some tools to do their job and call it a day.

 

Need enough stuff on the baord to survive 2 turns and maybe failing some reserve rolls. Turn 3 charges for combat units is also frustrating. Pale hunter really needed turn 1 reserves or charge from outflank.

 

I'll work on a 2.5 and 3k version of this theory while I work over the next few hours.

I'd defintely have to agree here the list wants you to use tons for reserves but without any garuanteed reserves or turn 1 you find yourself severely outnumbered.

 

 

Alot of armies can bring a frighting level of turn 1 shooting. So yeah its an issue. Definetly want first turn with The Pale Hunter. Deploying extremely difficult to kill units will be to go to. Some combination of a LoW, and Infantry out of line of sight. 

[Guest Drekkan]

For the record, I did play against Iron Warriors (in kill team/zone mortalis, mind you) and was sorry for my opponent (7-2).

 

Outflanking can be tricky against a cunning general, and require both luck and good practise.

 

By the way, what's your experience with non compulsories troops such as breachers, assault, recon ? Does it water down a bit the list ?