Angelus Speculation

[Jarkaira]

And as Sanguinius is all about sacrifice maybe he gives VP for controlling player for each wound taken :)

[lokkorex]

i think the old fluff about the lion and russ fight and the start of their legions duel tradition had the lion as slightly faster and russ as slightly stronger.

maybe it's enough if the lion had slightly less attacks and slightly more initiative compared to russ, with of course accompanying special rules.

maybe a "true strike" rule, to show how he skewered kurze in savage weapons before kurze could even react! 

[helterskelter]

It'd be nice to learn how the Lion knew where the Night Lords would run to. He essentially broke them as a Legion with two consecutive battles.

The lion has a pet nurgle demon that tells him where to go when it suits it's purpose. It saved Typhons hide for reasons also

[Arkangilos]

Perhaps discussion of white scars success (or failure) should go into its own thread? I'd not mind joining in on that discussion too.

 

But angelus officially isn't about the scars currently.

 

As a Blood Angels player I'm still unsure what to think about key focus for the Blood Angels portion of the book being on signus... it's a hugely defining moment, but it wasn't a long or complex campaign, and whilst I'm not a huge fan of swallows work, fear to tread wasn't terrible and did cover the event in quite some detail... so not sure what FW will do with it.

 

Or maybe the Siege of baal or passage of the angel of death (if that's about sanguinius) will be the focus of the BA part of the book.

 

I'm very interested to see what characters and units BA get. I DO think people will be disappointed if they expect BL characters. I suspect we may see one of them (guess would be azkaellon) and then one or two new characters of FW devising.

 

For units, Sanguinary Guard feel like an obvious one and I hope we see them (I'd guess at FW upgrade kit for the plastic ones rather than a full kit too). But I don't know what else we may see...

 

 

For Dark Angel's, I'm really excited to see the lion, based on russ... I reckon the lion will be ridiculous rules wise and should have a great sculpt too!

 

I assume thramas will be a large chunk of this book and probably the focus for the DA element, so seeing how that gets expanded from the tidbits we have had from BL so far should be pretty interesting, but overall, again I'm more intrigued about the new lore for them.

 

I can't really speculate on characters and units for the DA though.

I want to say they are expanding Signus to be a year long, now. Also, FW is good at expanding campaigns to make them way better. I'd rather FW go in depth and give us something better so we can use it rather than Fear to Tread. Also, they will use it for fleshing out Daemons as well. All of this makes me thing Signus will be the Primarch focus.

 

The "it already got a book" doesn't really matter because Calth got a book and several stories, and FW still greatly expanded on it.

 

Not to mention Signus wasn't really covered in detail. Sure, the novel was set at Signus, but we didn't get any real troop positions, battle plans, etc. It was very narrow in scope and only covered one small group from the Legion, and one small area from the overall battle.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Arkangilos

[StruManChu]

 

It'd be nice to learn how the Lion knew where the Night Lords would run to. He essentially broke them as a Legion with two consecutive battles.

The lion has a pet nurgle demon that tells him where to go when it suits it's purpose. It saved Typhons hide for reasons also

 

 

To rephrase bluntblade's post then, it'd be great to see how Bligh and the FW writes balance the Lion's supposed tactical genius against Gav Thorpe plot-macguffin that no other writer seems to want to go near.

 

Note - I say this as a DA fan annoyed about certain creative liberties taken by the above-mentioned author; who just doesn't seem to like Lion el'Jonson very much.

[pompeyladbfp]

im really looking forward to the Sanguinius model.. I'm sure they rules will make him top tier, and also be a support Primarch too with rules that dramatically improve the BAs. I remeber from the Horus Heresy tactical board game that sangy could do his bloodrage power once per game and that would dramatically improve the damage output but leave them vulnerable in defence

[Blindhamster]

 

Perhaps discussion of white scars success (or failure) should go into its own thread? I'd not mind joining in on that discussion too.

 

But angelus officially isn't about the scars currently.

 

As a Blood Angels player I'm still unsure what to think about key focus for the Blood Angels portion of the book being on signus... it's a hugely defining moment, but it wasn't a long or complex campaign, and whilst I'm not a huge fan of swallows work, fear to tread wasn't terrible and did cover the event in quite some detail... so not sure what FW will do with it.

 

Or maybe the Siege of baal or passage of the angel of death (if that's about sanguinius) will be the focus of the BA part of the book.

 

I'm very interested to see what characters and units BA get. I DO think people will be disappointed if they expect BL characters. I suspect we may see one of them (guess would be azkaellon) and then one or two new characters of FW devising.

 

For units, Sanguinary Guard feel like an obvious one and I hope we see them (I'd guess at FW upgrade kit for the plastic ones rather than a full kit too). But I don't know what else we may see...

 

 

For Dark Angel's, I'm really excited to see the lion, based on russ... I reckon the lion will be ridiculous rules wise and should have a great sculpt too!

 

I assume thramas will be a large chunk of this book and probably the focus for the DA element, so seeing how that gets expanded from the tidbits we have had from BL so far should be pretty interesting, but overall, again I'm more intrigued about the new lore for them.

 

I can't really speculate on characters and units for the DA though.

I want to say they are expanding Signus to be a year long, now. Also, FW is good at expanding campaigns to make them way better. I'd rather FW go in depth and give us something better so we can use it rather than Fear to Tread. Also, they will use it for fleshing out Daemons as well. All of this makes me thing Signus will be the Primarch focus.

 

The "it already got a book" doesn't really matter because Calth got a book and several stories, and FW still greatly expanded on it.

 

Not to mention Signus wasn't really covered in detail. Sure, the novel was set at Signus, but we didn't get any real troop positions, battle plans, etc. It was very narrow in scope and only covered one small group from the Legion, and one small area from the overall battle.

I guess if they focus on anything other than signus prime (currently the only real bit sanguinius is specifically a part of).

 

The whole point to signus prime has always been that sanguinius gets curb stomped at the start and then for nearly the entire Legion (originally the entire legion) go crazy and succumb to the red Thirst (also suggested to be the first hint of the black rage). When sanguinius wakes up the daemons are mostly defeated... obviously fear to tread modifies it a little so that sanguinius wakes up sooner, is still horrified by what his Legion is capable or but also goes and curb stomps some greater daemons anyway.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Blindhamster

[malika666]

Look, all I want to see are some Blood Angel jetbike chariots:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/2/20/JetbikeChariot00.png

[Corswain]

Chariots would be pretty cool. It's very unique.

[b1soul]

The whole point to signus prime has always been that sanguinius gets curb stomped at the start and then for nearly the entire Legion (originally the entire legion) go crazy and succumb to the red Thirst (also suggested to be the first hint of the black rage).

IIRC, Fear to Tread changes that...though it's been ages since reading it

 

Now it's more like Ka'Bandha hurts Sang and then Sang absolutely destroys him at Signus (rather than his vengeance waiting until Terra)

[Runefyre]

Chariots would be pretty cool. It's very unique.

Unless they're Space Wolves

 

Though I think chariots could be implemented in an awesome manner. FW has a habit of doing that with most things.

 

I think Blood Angels should get a special dreadnought with a giant sword, that'd be pretty awesome.

[b1soul]

Unless they're Space Wolves :P

 

Though I think chariots could be implemented in an awesome manner. FW has a habit of doing that with most things.

 

I think Blood Angels should get a special dreadnought with a giant sword, that'd be pretty awesome.

SW ride giant furry mounts...they don't need chariots

[Cryptix]

 

Chariots would be pretty cool. It's very unique.

Unless they're Space Wolves

 

Though I think chariots could be implemented in an awesome manner. FW has a habit of doing that with most things.

 

I think Blood Angels should get a special dreadnought with a giant sword, that'd be pretty awesome.

 

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT THE STORMRIDER.

[Jarkaira]

 

 

Chariots would be pretty cool. It's very unique.

Unless they're Space Wolves

 

Though I think chariots could be implemented in an awesome manner. FW has a habit of doing that with most things.

 

I think Blood Angels should get a special dreadnought with a giant sword, that'd be pretty awesome.

I'd rather see them getting a dreadnought with some talon like weapons which generate another set of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding and so on :)

[lokkorex]

 

 

Chariots would be pretty cool. It's very unique.

Unless they're Space Wolves :P

Though I think chariots could be implemented in an awesome manner. FW has a habit of doing that with most things.

I think Blood Angels should get a special dreadnought with a giant sword, that'd be pretty awesome.

I'd rather see them getting a dreadnought with some talon like weapons which generate another set of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding which generates another set of of attacks when wounding and so on :)

Volkite claws?

 

Where's olis with his M.D.R.C. stamp of approval?

[Corswain]

You could put a volkite turret on a chariot. I'd buy that.

[Marshal Loss]

I strangely feel like I'm talking to MarshalLoss all over again.

 

The common theme here is you being wrong, not my involvement. Go talk about the White Scars being the best swordsmen or the contextual definition of perfect without name dropping me, thanks. Enjoy your 2 year wait!

 

Now back to Angelus speculation rather than White Scar speculation folks

Edited February 14, 2017 by Marshal Loss

[Liege]

 

The Scars annoyed a few traitor legions for a brief period with no notable wins besides maybe "Peresimmar" of which we know nothing about (could have been a shipping yard full of recruits).

That's the point isn't it?

 

We know little other than the barebones info in Path of Heaven. It could've been a shipping yard of recruits (odd for Qin Xa to describe it as a great victory)...it could've been a major engagement involving multiple companies.

 

Those little nuggets could easily be expanded upon by FW according to FW's preferences.

 

1. The Khan engaged in a 4 year, counter-offensive against SoH, DG, IW, and EC

 

2. Perissimar was only one out of multiple "great victories" according to Path of Heaven. I suspect that the WS, far from being invincible, also suffered at least a few great defeats.

 

3. Not enough info is available in PoH for you to possibly conclude that the WS were only an insignificant annoyance to the Traitors

 

4. In light of the barebones info Wraight provides, I suppose FW could downplay the role of the WS before the Siege (as you seem to prefer)...or alternatively, FW could easily do the opposite and play it up.

 

It would actually be exceedingly easy to do the latter, e.g. FW could simply describe Peressimar and other significant WS victories (or defeats) as large battles resulting in substantial loss of WS and/or Traitor assets

 

5. At a minimum, I don't think the harrying campaign of the WS would be less significant than Thramas

 

Claiming "'reap ruin on the Warmaster's advance' is mere prose" is a rather self-serving argument.

 

I don't know how Wraight could make it clearer that the Khan has caused substantial damage and delay to the Traitors...enough for Horus to divert Mortarion and Eidolon to hunt him down.

 

I strangely feel like I'm talking to MarshalLoss all over again.

 

In the grand context of the heresy there is no way that an already shattered legion (due to how many internal traitors they had) could cause any great inconvenience to multiple full strength legions. At the moment (key point: At the moment) The only major named event the White Scars have is on Terra. I am going off what we currently have, if they flesh it out in the future then hell yeah, the White Scars are an awesome legion and I am so down for more fluff regarding them. Mongolian history is literally my favourite time period (along with Norse) so don't think I'm anti-scars. I'm just saying that based on current fluff, the Scars have no named major event besides Terra.

 

They can't logically flesh out a raiding campaign as resulting in substantial losses to the Traitors, it caused delays, but substantial losses are losing pitched battles in the context of Warhammer. And of course Mortarion was diverted for the Khan, having a Primarch behind your lines is a huge concern, see why Horus wanted a quick fight with the Emperor when he found out the Wolves were coming.

 

I don't see why you're getting so aggressive / factionalist over this, all I've done is state what is currently known with fluff and what the likely implication is, saying I sound like somebody else is very rude. I'm a White Scars fan, you're not the gatekeeper for that legion and you should show others their due respect whether they agree with you or not. I openly disagree with a few things about my legion with other fans, doesn't mean I in any way hold that against them or think they are lesser as fans.

 

If the Scars get expanded lore during the heresy I will be very, very happy. If they don't then the only current major known battle is Terra which will also be awesome to read about, White Scars fans win eitherway. Please be more respectful to others voicing their opinions.

 

Edit: Also I can't wait to see how the Khan stacks up to other Primarchs as a melee combatant, not sure anything besides Horus has even a hope of taking on Russ!

Edited February 14, 2017 by Liege

[Runefyre]

 

Unless they're Space Wolves

 

Though I think chariots could be implemented in an awesome manner. FW has a habit of doing that with most things.

 

I think Blood Angels should get a special dreadnought with a giant sword, that'd be pretty awesome.

SW ride giant furry mounts...they don't need chariots

 

Grimnar has a chariot, and a pretty darned cool one at that

[Jarkaira]

I thought it was Santa Grimnar

[b1soul]

The common theme here is you being wrong, not my involvement.

If you say so...others would disagree

 

Go talk about the White Scars being the best swordsmen or the contextual definition of perfect without name dropping me, thanks.

I never talked about the WS as the best swordsmen...please settle down

 

I did find ur salty personal messages quite hilarious.

 

By the way, we were discussing the meaning of efficiency, not of perfection

 

Enjoy your 2 year wait! :)

How petty

 

In the grand context of the heresy there is no way that an already shattered legion (due to how many internal traitors they had) could cause any great inconvenience to multiple full strength legions. At the moment (key point: At the moment) The only major named event the White Scars have is on Terra. I am going off what we currently have, if they flesh it out in the future then hell yeah, the White Scars are an awesome legion and I am so down for more fluff regarding them. Mongolian history is literally my favourite time period (along with Norse) so don't think I'm anti-scars. I'm just saying that based on current fluff, the Scars have no named major event besides Terra.

 

They can't logically flesh out a raiding campaign as resulting in substantial losses to the Traitors, it caused delays, but substantial losses are losing pitched battles in the context of Warhammer. And of course Mortarion was diverted for the Khan, having a Primarch behind your lines is a huge concern, see why Horus wanted a quick fight with the Emperor when he found out the Wolves were coming.

 

I don't see why you're getting so aggressive / factionalist over this, all I've done is state what is currently known with fluff and what the likely implication is, saying I sound like somebody else is very rude. I'm a White Scars fan, you're not the gatekeeper for that legion and you should show others their due respect whether they agree with you or not. I openly disagree with a few things about my legion with other fans, doesn't mean I in any way hold that against them or think they are lesser as fans.

 

If the Scars get expanded lore during the heresy I will be very, very happy. If they don't then the only current major known battle is Terra which will also be awesome to read about, White Scars fans win eitherway. Please be more respectful to others voicing their opinions.

 

Edit: Also I can't wait to see how the Khan stacks up to other Primarchs as a melee combatant, not sure anything besides Horus has even a hope of taking on Russ!

1. No one is getting aggressive or factional. Please don't project.

 

2. The WS were not "shattered" by their internal strife.

 

3. If that were the case, the SoH, DG, EC, and IW were all "shattered" even worse by theirs.

 

4. Of course the WS could effectively harry 4 legions...it's what they're born to do.

 

There's actually a distinction between hit-and-run and raiding. The Mongols conquered Eurasia with the former, the Vikings did the latter against peasant villages. I'm thinking it would be more accurate to call the WS campaign a "hit-and-run" campaign.

 

5. Peressimar may very well have been a large battle, along with the other "great victories" implied by Qin Xa. Of course, the WS would not be taking on a force quadruple their size. They'd try to pick viable targets.

 

6. It really doesn't matter that details about the WS campaign are missing at this point. The groundwork has already been laid for FW to greatly expand the WS pre-Siege role if they desire. There is certainly room to do it.

Edited February 14, 2017 by b1soul

[Jarkaira]

It has been a while since I have seen "My legion is better than your legion!" fights. These are somewhat hilarious but tend to feel boring after a while.

 

You both do notice that you are arguing over written fiction?

[Ranwulf]

Returning to the discussion - I really hope Sanguinius has flight and special skills tied to it. In fact, if he could fight Monsters Creatures or engage in CC with any type of flier...that would be damn COOL. 

 

Ran

[Blindhamster]

Enough with the white scars talk in this thread please guys. I'm no mod obviously but perhaps leave it to PM or a new thread (would be great if a mod could shift all the WS chat to a new thread)

[bluntblade]

It's not really arguing that the Scars are better than another Legion, it's just that the suggestion that they achieved nothing significant in four years of fighting that ground them down to half their previous size rather sticks in the craw.

 

However yeah, back to the Angels.

Edited February 14, 2017 by bluntblade