The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Sun Reaver]

I'm honestly excited to see what new chapters will be created off the SW's geneseed. I know some of you are unhappy, but I'm excited. I've always enjoyed reading about SW and having more chapters to learn about is something I am specifically looking forward to.

 

Plus, it'll be nice to have other SW-like marines in the Deathwatch. There are way to many SW's running around in Deathwatch nowadays lol 

[KiltedMarine]

It will be interesting, when codexes start coming out, seeing whether or not we start seeing Primaris getting customized to match up with Chapter cultures or not.

 

If we do, then it's definitely the death knell of Astartes Veteris.

[Grimtooth]

We are assuredly not getting new chapters of SW, just new Primaris Chapters that will be painted like SW and probably have SW chapter keyword rules that are entirely useless to Primaris Marines since they have virtually zero close combat units.

 

i can fix this train wreck of a release with one change to the lore;

 

SW Primaris are NOT just birthed wherever RG and Cawl have them and then dropped off on Fenris. Cawl actually brings the technology/process to Fenris and with each batch of Fenrisian recruits some are selected that instead of becoming standard Space Wolves are instead chosen to become Primaris SW.

 

Or before being sent to a Claw, some new aspirants that have already undergone the implantation process to become SW are chosen to be upgraded to Primaris SW.

 

These are the ABSOLUTE only ways I can accept Primaris Marines as Wolves. If they are just created wherever RG and Cawl have their faciltiy with SW geneseed and never experience life on Fenris as a mortal or the selection process by the Choosers of the Slain, they will never be SW.

 

And before someone mentions Terran SW, they were integrated into the SW under Russ' personally, not being forced into the chapter by RG. They also adopted the style of warfare of their primarch, unlike the Primaris who are bringing in the tactics and warfare of RG. And lastly, the Terran recruitment of SW ended with attrition ultimately wiping them out to zero, unlike the flow of Primaris Marines from the RG/Cawl laboratory.

[Karack Blackstone]

We are assuredly not getting new chapters of SW, just new Primaris Chapters that will be painted like SW and probably have SW chapter keyword rules that are entirely useless to Primaris Marines since they have virtually zero close combat units.

 

i can fix this train wreck of a release with one change to the lore;

 

SW Primaris are NOT just birthed wherever RG and Cawl have them and then dropped off on Fenris. Cawl actually brings the technology/process to Fenris and with each batch of Fenrisian recruits some are selected that instead of becoming standard Space Wolves are instead chosen to become Primaris SW.

 

Or before being sent to a Claw, some new aspirants that have already undergone the implantation process to become SW are chosen to be upgraded to Primaris SW.

 

These are the ABSOLUTE only ways I can accept Primaris Marines as Wolves. If they are just created wherever RG and Cawl have their faciltiy with SW geneseed and never experience life on Fenris as a mortal or the selection process by the Choosers of the Slain, they will never be SW.

 

And before someone mentions Terran SW, they were integrated into the SW under Russ' personally, not being forced into the chapter by RG. They also adopted the style of warfare of their primarch, unlike the Primaris who are bringing in the tactics and warfare of RG. And lastly, the Terran recruitment of SW ended with attrition ultimately wiping them out to zero, unlike the flow of Primaris Marines from the RG/Cawl laboratory.

 

Despite my prior posts, I'm with you on this one, as the hard part that GW seems to not have done well is convince me they know their own fluff, so as to better bring the Primaris into the SW's as a Chapter properly.

 

While some might see properly different than I do, I say, along the lines of Ramses, there needs to be the induction into the ranks of the Vlka the same as any other SM, no matter their final status, be it Adeptus Astartes, or Primaris Adeptus Astartes. To do otherwise is to miss the proverbial boat, and, as Fenris is so specific a culture, that is not going to fly here.

 

I do appreciate GW not wanting to force these new models on us, however, the implications around how they are going to apparently be introduced in the Wolves do make it seem quite forced.

 

Food for thought.

[Grimtooth]

I think the same applies to other chapters like BT and BA. In those cases, the BT have their mixed squads of initiates with SM. Some of those initiates could then be selected for the Primaris upgrade thus they began as BT, even fought as BT for a bit, and then were selected for Primaris upgrade. The same could be applied to BA scouts. Unfortunately SW have Blood Claws and not scouts or initiates, but the transition could still be in that realm of timing.

 

In each case we at least have the Primaris being a SW/BT/BA before they became a Primaris which is acceptable at least to me in terms of integration.

[Guest]

I'm honestly excited to see what new chapters will be created off the SW's geneseed. I know some of you are unhappy, but I'm excited. I've always enjoyed reading about SW and having more chapters to learn about is something I am specifically looking forward to.

 

Plus, it'll be nice to have other SW-like marines in the Deathwatch. There are way to many SW's running around in Deathwatch nowadays lol

Maybe if the rest of our cousins would harden up and not die so easily there would be more in the deathwatch. Sending your elite and veterans, while we send our milk-drinking blood claws and they still survive. Just kidding.

 

Well if the Primaris Marines become their own chapter are they really wolves? They wont use our unique weapons, tools, methods, traditions. They would still use be pretty much the samw as every other primaris marine with a glimpse of wolf in them. What makes us unique is our culture and that culture would stay on Fenris as we have a tendency to go crazy when not raised on fenris.

[Wispy]

thought it over and I think the Interceptors are the easiest thing to integrate into my Space Wolves.

 

the lack of bare heads or pelts isn't a problem. they need helmets to survive the ride down into space, and any pelts they had would burn up on entry. Instead I'm going to paint on runes Firehowler style.

[CaptainStabby]

Ramses has the right of it. They all but said "it's an upgrade than can be plugged onto existing marines" in the live Q&A. They flat out said that a large point of the new Crusade was to deliver this tech to all chapters of the Astartes. So... it's a bit of a handwavey way to get them to everyone, but it's certainly better than "Cawl is better than The Emperor and fixed everyone's gene flaws." Which wouldnt have worked for us or either of the Angel chapters really.

[Wispy]

I really do hope they let us have succesors! I dont know what the plan is, but i've always felt bad for players who have tried to homebrew their own Space Wolves faction with their own colour choices but were limited by the lore.

[Guest]

I really do hope they let us have succesors! I dont know what the plan is, but i've always felt bad for players who have tried to homebrew their own Space Wolves faction with their own colour choices but were limited by the lore.

We always had a loopholes and that was the lost companies. Mine was lost in the warp only returning 3000 years later, recovering a heresy era battlecruiser with ancient weapons (such as using mk3 claw vs modern lightning claws) and lacking TWC (but using outriders and fenrisian wolves instead). I also use Harald stat line for my wolf lord and planned on using his formation in 7th. Another member, when I first joined, had a backstory his group was sickened by Logans use of riding thunderwolves. So his company left and only returns when Fenris or the Empire is in danger. His used all modern equipment except TWC. Lost companies are our version of successor chapters, but fits our lore and the viking ways.

[Filius]

I'm honestly excited to see what new chapters will be created off the SW's geneseed. I know some of you are unhappy, but I'm excited. I've always enjoyed reading about SW and having more chapters to learn about is something I am specifically looking forward to.

 

Plus, it'll be nice to have other SW-like marines in the Deathwatch. There are way to many SW's running around in Deathwatch nowadays lol 

 

Plus: I am pretty sure that they will somehow vary the Viking Theme, and I am very curious in which direction … maybe more Celtic Influences (which have been around in the community for very long), or even towards Wagners Ring or Tolkiens Rohirim … or maybe even Games Workshops own latest Duardin Incarnations …

[Grimtooth]

Lost Companies have always been the mechanic for the lore not allowing us to have successors. It fit the bill for any company that the player wanted that was different from what was in the Annulus.

 

If the possibility presents itself through GW kits or third party companies to actually build a Primaris sized SW army, any actual Primaris units I use in said army will forever be painted as Blood Claws!

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Did the Terran Great Crusade era space wolves need to go through an induction? Not the way we do it now. Russ knew to bridge the Fenrisian-Terran divide through blood and war. For me its the same. I would prefer them to adapt our culture but I don't know better than our Primarch. The Primaris marines can prove their worth in war. In the long run these terran Primaris marines will die and be replaced by Fenrisians.

 

I don't want to tread into the successor debate. But ADB recently shared some info on another thread. Here's an excerpt. Just something to chew on. Crossed out some of the stuff not regarding successors.

 

There's no right answer. I wish there was, but what's worth bearing in mind is that this is all very, very... fluid. If you're looking for specific facts on Company size, my best advice is: Don't. 

 

I've had work emails from very high sources that say categorically that there's literally no way the Space Wolves could really exceed 1,000 Marines, and that some Great Companies are only 40+ Marines (still a force capable of wrecking face, lore-wise, of course). I've had others that say there actually has to be Successor Chapters of the Wolves, somewhere. Some have said the reason for no Successors in Battle of the Fang is a good angle but not the real one, others have said it's fine and it's the one to stick with. 

 

 

 

 

Edit: weird double quote deleted my text below.. trying to remember what i said.... nevermind too tired.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Wolf Guard Dan

[Filius]

Did the Terran Great Crusade era space wolves need to go through an induction? Not the way we do it now. Russ knew to bridge the Fenrisian-Terran divide through blood and war. For me its the same. I would prefer them to adapt our culture but I don't know better than our Primarch. The Primaris marines can prove their worth in war. In the long run these terran Primaris marines will die and be replaced by Fenrisians.

 

I don't want to tread into the successor debate. But ADB recently shared some info on another thread. Here's an excerpt. Just something to chew on. Crossed out some of the stuff not regarding successors.

 

There's no right answer. I wish there was, but what's worth bearing in mind is that this is all very, very... fluid. If you're looking for specific facts on Company size, my best advice is: Don't. 

 

I've had work emails from very high sources that say categorically that there's literally no way the Space Wolves could really exceed 1,000 Marines, and that some Great Companies are only 40+ Marines (still a force capable of wrecking face, lore-wise, of course). I've had others that say there actually has to be Successor Chapters of the Wolves, somewhere. Some have said the reason for no Successors in Battle of the Fang is a good angle but not the real one, others have said it's fine and it's the one to stick with. 

 

 

 

 

Edit: weird double quote deleted my text below.. trying to remember what i said.... nevermind too tired.

 

Uhmm … yeah …

 

Can anyone explaint to me what the "reason for no Successors in Battle of the Fang" might mean? Thanks!

[Grimtooth]

ADB can go fly a kite!

 

When Prospero Burns and Thousand Sons first came out and there was the whole discussion about rune priests and Nikkea, he used his position as a BL author to basically try and shut me up about rune priest not using the warp like librarians. He went out of his way to call me out for putting forward the theory that somehow their powers were different and thus that is why they were not sanctioned. And lo and behold the rune priest get their powers from Fenris! So he can walk around puffing his chest as a BL author and all his IP insider knowledge, but he is just a blowhard in my opinion.

[Grimtooth]

I already pointed out Dan that the Terran Marines were brought into the final led by our primarch and under our primarch taken to war with the Fenrisians to have them bond. In addition the Terran Wolves adopted the fighting style of Russ and his Fenrisians. Russ isn't back yet to lead this bonding and theee Primaris Marines are bringing in RG method, tactics, and weaponry.

 

Huge difference from the angle in which Terran Wolves were brought in and how Primaris Marines are being forced upon us.

[CaptainStabby]

Watch the live Q&A, like I said, Im pretty sure we are getting the tech and not pre made Primaris bigmarines delivered to Fenris. The books are out there now, so surely someone can comment on the actual fluff.

[Filius]

Most of you have probably already seen it, but as it hasn't been noted here yet and just in case anyone has missed it:

 

There will be new old scale Space Marines also soo …

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/31/space-marine-heroes-in-japan/

 

So if GW will phase out the old scale Marines at all, they obviously won't start with it now …

 

And on a side note: Although they are not wolves, they look pretty dynamic …

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Where does that post discuss the scale of the models?

[Jackalwolf]

I personally hope they just bite the bullet and replace the line entirely.

[Filius]

Where does that post discuss the scale of the models?

 

I would say: Obviously they are not Primaris. Which means that there will be new non-primarisian Models. They look the regular, old-scale size, and as the article doesn't mention the scale and explizitly says that they are a Tactical Squad and even linkt to the currently regluar tactical Squad … I can't see a reasonable way for them to be bigger than the current Space Marines …

 

… or is there a missunderstanding somewhere?

[Guest Triszin]

that repulsor grav tank. I hope non primaris marines can take it. I WANT IT

[Guest]

that repulsor grav tank. I hope non primaris marines can take it. I WANT IT

Grav-rhino, grav-predatora, grav stormwolf... Might have to switch my outrider TWC for jetbike TWC...

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

Where does that post discuss the scale of the models?

 

I would say: Obviously they are not Primaris. Which means that there will be new non-primarisian Models. They look the regular, old-scale size, and as the article doesn't mention the scale and explizitly says that they are a Tactical Squad and even linkt to the currently regluar tactical Squad … I can't see a reasonable way for them to be bigger than the current Space Marines …

 

… or is there a missunderstanding somewhere?

 

They do indeed look like regular scale. But this unfortunately can't be taken as indicative of any trends. That looks like a one off, limited splash release anyway. The closest you get to future inference is "but don’t worry, the rest of you will have no shortage of new Space Marines". However that doesn't actually prove anything, as the studio clearly refers to the Primaris as 'Space Marines', so 'new Space Marines' does not indicate any more 'old scale' releases and probably only refers to the new Primaris releases.

[Grimtooth]

It is a one off, limited edition, only available in Japan set of collectibles. That is hardly indicative of no model phase out in the works.

 

At this point how does GW shoehorn in all models suddenly becoming Primaris sized? Primaris are the size they are by design and reflected in stat increase. I don't think we can honestly expect all Marine armies to get the stat increase if GW phases in the new size. GH with 2 wounds, an extra attack, access to bolt rifles and plasma rifles, along with their current gear options and rules would be super overpowered.

 

Seems like a catch-22