Runic Awakening: Speculation

[Wispy]

So I'm stoked about the models for both sides. And I'm not too miffed about the Infiltrators as I never got a chance to get Shadowspear and can't find the Primaris half anywhere. Granted I can get the starter box but it doesn't have the captain in Phobos.

 

GW's selling the Marine half of Shadowspear as a 'Start Collecting' set. 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Start-Collecting-Vanguard-Space-Marines-2019

 

 

edit: oops. reading comprehension!

Edited March 9, 2020 by Wispy

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

edit: oops. reading comprehension!

Ahh, my worst subject in school.

[Runefyre]

Absolutely love Ragnar. I'll definitely be rebasing him though, not a fan of the leaping thing he's got going on. 

 

 

It's an unrealistic wish but I would have love to see Ragnar's personal wolf guard voluntarily undergo the rubicon in solidarity with him, similar to Russ' original clansmen who chose to become astartes even at great risk due to age. Mostly I really want a fluffy elite primaris melee unit to run with him. 

[Sarto ripped claw]

 

 

no 3d wolf pauldron is a little disappointing, as is the pose thats basically the same as haldor, but overall i like it.

Uh? His pauldron looks to be 3D, and his pose is definitely different from the Haldor/Greater Possessed pose.

 

on his old model, his left pauldron was not a fancy blackmane sigil, but a wolfshead pointing out. i thought it would have been a great tie-in to his old version. 

and he's posed almost identically to haldor? sure, hes on a rock and his arms are posed differently, but same torso and leg posture for sure. 

 

 

 

dude the poses are share a barely passable ressembleance, one sprinting with an under arm axe swing one is jumping with a sword thrusting motion.

 

 

100 Bucks? Don`t think so, Ragnar will be 32,50, Abaddon was 50, so I would reckon that Ghaz is between 50 to 60, reckon 55 like the Redemptor. But I don`t see 70. (can only speak for Euro Prizes tho)

 

Not 100 Bucks the guy said £ so to put it into perspective the last box set was £145 so that can give you a comparable price of how much £100 may be.

 

Yeah Ghaz vs Ragnar deserves a novel. Do wonder if there will be more on the wolf side of the box.

 

I hope there will be more on the wolf side of the box 10 infiltrators although nice for those that dont have them a bit of variety would be ood there was mention of the troops with the shoulder mounted wepons they maybe in it to but they're just holding back on previewing it.

 

also just noticed ragnar cut his head off. the two killed eachother! 

 

yarrick crying tears that his ex has a new boyfriend

 

Yarricks too old he died like 50 fluff years ago, or at the very least sitting in a rocking chairs for eccentric commisars with orc claws

 

The one thing that could have happened to make this better in my eye would have been a tweaked story where sure enough Ragnar gets maimed and Ghaz loves his head, but does so at the hand of a dying Old Man Logan, and Primaris Ragnar ends up the being the new Great Wolf...

 

I know the brass at Geedub wouldn’t let it pass, but it would have made for a better story imho.

 

No that would be horrible Grimnar is an awesome character and part of our lore that shouldn't just be discarded because lazy writing or impatient customers want to speed through the story. I firmly believe Russ should meet Grimnar as chapter masterthe old wolf meets the great wolf.

[Vardus]

I absolutely love Ragnar's new model. I just hope his rules are as kick arse as the model. We need strong characters to help drag our army up from being BY FAR the worst army in 8th edition for the entire run of 8th edition.

 

Valrak has already "revealed" his stats,  basically he has the same rules.... ish, just renamed with the standard Primaris +1 attack and wound and Frostfang is +2 Strength, oh and no wolves :(

[Trevak Dal]

So...Primaris can't use drop pods, and Ragnar's thing is massed drop pod assault, unless they are going to allow Primaris to use drop pods (like they should always have been able to) he's like how The Khan was without a bike (though bikes are dumb imo)

[PeteySödes]

So...Primaris can't use drop pods, and Ragnar's thing is massed drop pod assault, unless they are going to allow Primaris to use drop pods (like they should always have been able to) he's like how The Khan was without a bike (though bikes are dumb imo)

 

I think we can reasonably assume the White Scar treatment here until the other Primaris flavors are out.

[Brother Scorpirus]

 

So...Primaris can't use drop pods, and Ragnar's thing is massed drop pod assault, unless they are going to allow Primaris to use drop pods (like they should always have been able to) he's like how The Khan was without a bike (though bikes are dumb imo)

 

I think we can reasonably assume the White Scar treatment here until the other Primaris flavors are out.

 

Well, can't impulsors/repulsors be dropped from orbit onto battlefields? If that's the case, then maybe we'll see some additions to those that hike point costs, but allow a variation of deep striking.

[PeteySödes]

 

 

So...Primaris can't use drop pods, and Ragnar's thing is massed drop pod assault, unless they are going to allow Primaris to use drop pods (like they should always have been able to) he's like how The Khan was without a bike (though bikes are dumb imo)

 

I think we can reasonably assume the White Scar treatment here until the other Primaris flavors are out.

 

Well, can't impulsors/repulsors be dropped from orbit onto battlefields? If that's the case, then maybe we'll see some additions to those that hike point costs, but allow a variation of deep striking.

 

 

Unless it's available for all Astartes I'd almost prefer they didn't. I don't need that kind of heat around here. They've tweaked the point costs on the repulsors pretty frequently already though too so further changes in any meaningful way I think would be unlikely.

Edited March 10, 2020 by PeteySödes

[Karhedron]

I love the Ragnar mini but I am struggling to find a tactical use for him, much like his previous incarnation. A 2D Frost Sword is nice but given our Chapter Trait, our HQs can do very well taking PFs and THs. He is very good at blending elite infantry which has become a thing again since Marines 2.0 came out. He can threaten bigger targets with "Seeking a Saga". 10 attacks hitting on 2s with rerolls and wounding on 5s with full rerolls will push some decent damage through. He should average 10 wounds on a Knight in the first round of combat which is not too shabby for a 100-ish point model. Unlike Smash Captains/Lords, he is better vs more numerous opponents but is basically a beat-stick character on foot.

 

You could advance him on foot/transport and use him to buff your mid-field units while acting as a charge deterrent. Bjorn fills a similar role and hits harder though, particularly against large targets.

 

His reroll charge aura is decent but SWs have other ways to get this.

[Guest Triszin]

Wave 3 of primaris should hopefully be shown off at adepticon, not that far away.

 

However I don't think it's fast insertion, I think it's fast attack, ranged

[PeteySödes]

Agreed Karhedron, here's hoping he wasnt developed in a bubble and we get some well thought out and synergistic rules.

[Karhedron]

That seems to be the case based on the blurry image we have seen so far. Looks like we will need to rely on our Firstborn units and Wulfen for our melee power for a while longer.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

So...Primaris can't use drop pods, and Ragnar's thing is massed drop pod assault, unless they are going to allow Primaris to use drop pods (like they should always have been able to) he's like how The Khan was without a bike (though bikes are dumb imo)

I'm pretty sure 7th was the only edition where Ragnar's company had special drop pod rules. So I wouldn't compare him to the Khan who had rules for being on bike (no model though).

 

I also think GW underestimated how many people wouldn't like to mix primaris and firstborn. You can still have a heavy drop pod theme with the blackmanes if you mix and match.

[PeteySödes]

 

So...Primaris can't use drop pods, and Ragnar's thing is massed drop pod assault, unless they are going to allow Primaris to use drop pods (like they should always have been able to) he's like how The Khan was without a bike (though bikes are dumb imo)

I'm pretty sure 7th was the only edition where Ragnar's company had special drop pod rules. So I wouldn't compare him to the Khan who had rules for being on bike (no model though).

 

I also think GW underestimated how many people wouldn't like to mix primaris and firstborn. You can still have a heavy drop pod theme with the blackmanes if you mix and match.

 

 

I think this was mostly born of creating distinctions between the Wolf Lords. Being the young headstrong one was the "first" the break the conventions of the 3rd ed "boots on solid ground" fluff where drop pods were rare and teleporting was a no-no.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Yeah I would agree with that. I think I tend to think of him more as duelist because of his trilogy and ADB's book which emphasized them.

 

I'm pretty excited for the model and I like that he is good but not so good that he will be in every space wolf list

[PeteySödes]

Yeah I would agree with that. I think I tend to think of him more as duelist because of his trilogy and ADB's book which emphasized them.

 

I'm pretty excited for the model and I like that he is good but not so good that he will be in every space wolf list

 

As it should be IMO, any obvious or must "include choices" instantly become boring to me. It's just lazy design otherwise.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Wait until we learn our new rules from PA. We may get better delivery for him. If I field him it may be in an Impulsor or keep him on the hunt and bring him off the board edge when the rest of my stuff gets there.

[The Saint Ragnar]

I have a feeling it will be a little like the Khan treatment but honestly I mostly ran him next to or in Rhinos to give his buffs out at key moments.

 

More likely than not we will see our updates next week and the book the week after that. I'm really interested to see if we get doctrines or if we get something else.

 

Only time will tell...

[Spinsanity]

I'm really interested to see if we get doctrines or if we get something else.

Not giving the Wolves doctrines would be such a disappointing move, as it would mean mixed-marine armies that include Wolves are gimped even more. You can currently have detachments with different chapters and only sacrifice your access to super doctrines, but not giving the Wolves doctrines at all would mean the other detachments would then sacrifice doctrines too...

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

 

I'm really interested to see if we get doctrines or if we get something else.

Not giving the Wolves doctrines would be such a disappointing move, as it would mean mixed-marine armies that include Wolves are gimped even more. You can currently have detachments with different chapters and only sacrifice your access to super doctrines, but not giving the Wolves doctrines at all would mean the other detachments would then sacrifice doctrines too...

 

I have a plan for this. If we get Doctrines in name and function so that we can play nice with other Astartes, I'll run them with my Raven Guard. If we get something else, I'll run them with my Custodes.

[Wispy]

it's wierd people are fixating on the "primaris have no drop pod thing" for ragnar and not the "primaris have no blood claws" thing.

[TiguriusX]

it's wierd people are fixating on the "primaris have no drop pod thing" for ragnar and not the "primaris have no blood claws" thing.

That just gave me an idea...

 

Fluff says blood claws and reivers really hit it off.

 

We lost our troop scouts to an elite slot for fluff

 

They should move wolf reivers to the troop slot to represent primaris blood claw training

 

I would actually see many uses for troop reivers

[NightHowler]

The only way I’ll start to accept Primaris into the Space Wolves is if the fluff is written in a way that makes it clear that we have taken over the production and training of said Primaris in a way consistent with the customs of the Aett.

 

I think moving Reivers to troops choice would be a good start.

 

Giving them access to alternative weapon choices from the armory would be even better.

 

Saying that they start out as Reivers, and get promoted to Intercessors, and then Intercessors get promoted up to some of the more specialized Primaris would make them even better still.

 

Giving them the ability to take Wolf Guard mixed into each pack in addition to the above changes would then make them perfect and I would no longer have any reservations at all.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

it's wierd people are fixating on the "primaris have no drop pod thing" for ragnar and not the "primaris have no blood claws" thing.

 

Heh? 

 

GW is already changing the fluff to where the traditional "Bloodclaw" pack markings are now the "fast attack" pack markings. There is no longer the separation between Bloodclaws and Grey Hunters like there was in previous codices. There is also the fact that there are no standard close combat kit options for any of the Primaris troops.. thus their inclusion in the Rout means tactical doctrine and great company organization will have to change for them to be implemented. I don't think any of that is equivalent to the fact that the Wolf Lord who is the drop pod assault tactical specialist does not have the ability to be transported in a drop pod. Maybe the reasoning is because he is a Wolf Lord, he now fulfills more of a strategic role like a military officer would after becoming more senior. Or maybe we'll eventually see a Primaris drop pod.. regardless, I don't think the argument you're trying to make is a great one. There are no Primaris units that are true equivalents to any of the traditional Space Wolves units, Intercessors are just as different from Grey Hunters as they are to Bloodclaws.

 

 

it's wierd people are fixating on the "primaris have no drop pod thing" for ragnar and not the "primaris have no blood claws" thing.

That just gave me an idea...

 

Fluff says blood claws and reivers really hit it off.

 

We lost our troop scouts to an elite slot for fluff

 

They should move wolf reivers to the troop slot to represent primaris blood claw training

 

I would actually see many uses for troop reivers

 

Bloodclaws are supposed to be the new recruits, you could make the argument that any of the Primaris units should start as bloodclaws. I don't really think Reivers hitting it off with Bloodclaws makes any difference.. Reivers wont be troops because Infiltrators are..

Edited March 11, 2020 by Bloody Legionnaire