[BC] The Blackest Heart (OOC)

[Necronaut]

If you recall the little vignette I included about Ukalegon stealing a pair of legion bolt pistols from the kitty back on Brimstone (sorry everyone) and exchanging them for a refractor field, that was the whole purpose of that exercise. Feel free to rescind that or what have you @Mazer Rackham if my intentions had not been absolutely clear at the time.

[Lysimachus]

Hmm.

 

I think I'll respectfully disagree with you on this point.

 

Saying that your Infamy makes no difference whatsoever doesn't make logical sense. Abaddon the Despoiler himself couldn't Acquire a Legion Bolter (Extremely Rare) unless he made a deal with someone for it, or nicked it, or whatever? Nope. Whether it's RAW or not, it doesn't make sense RAI. 

 

Edit: obviously, I'm cool with whatever way Mazer says to do it, but I don't see any way it can mean anything other than the target number (of your Inf +/- availability mods) being 0 or 100.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Lysimachus

[Mazer Rackham]

I think what's thrown me, personally, is the Chargen ACQ's, which state '-10 is an auto get' and then sort of glossed over the mechanics because although Chargen ACQ is an exception, I didn't really know how much of an exception it was.

 

23 minutes ago, Necronaut said:

Feel free to rescind that or what have you @Mazer Rackham if my intentions had not been absolutely clear at the time.

 

No, that's not necessary, a GM trade is what it is. I do dig most of the rules the more I hurl them at you, you know. 

 

22 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

Saying that your Infamy makes no difference whatsoever doesn't make logical sense. Abaddon the Despoiler himself couldn't Acquire a Legion Bolter (Extremely Rare) unless he made a deal with someone for it, or nicked it, or whatever? Nope. Whether it's RAW or not, it doesn't make sense RAI. 

 

Yeah, that's exactly what baked my noodle for a moment there as well, but I can see it all now.

 

Abaddon would be able to get arms (the ones with fingers, too) if he was on a Daemonforge World, because the Availability would be 'Dirt'.

 

We'll roll with RAW for just now, and once a few lines are played out, we'll start to be able to put that Infamy to work. Don't forget that you can use it for hiring folks and ships too, with enough clout, so once we're out of the playpen/starting area/safe shallows it will be alright.

 

Edited March 21 by Mazer Rackham

[Necronaut]

Look, I'm just calling balls and strikes here. The RAW is the RAW.

 

Taking your example of Abaddon and were he so interested in laying his grubby (and prone to falling off) mitts upon a Legion Bolter, yes to acquire but one, he would be facing a -20 modifier under ordinary circumstances. However, let's say Abaddon is aboard his flagship, the Vengeful Spirit, which is positively overflowing with Black Legion astartes and Legion hardware, not to mention it has its own forge. In this case, a Legion Boltgun could be considered to be Scarce (+0) or even Abundant (+10), not to mention he is the Warmaster of Chaos, which may incur further bonuses (or maybe none at all). 

 

Let's say for argument's sake that a Legion Boltgun is considered Abundant while aboard his flagship, and Abaddon has an arbitrarily high Infamy score of 90 (I think the core rules lists him having an Infamy of 120+, but I digress...). Now the way this would play out is Abaddon, while sitting athwart his command throne aboard the Vengeful Spirit's bridge, in a fit of pique demands that one of the bridge's guards, Brox, a relative newcomer to the Black Legion, hand over his boltgun, as old Abby wants to have a bit of fun down at the firing range. In this case Abaddon will make his acquisition test (Abundant Availability, requesting a single unit) at a +20 modifier, so he's rolling against 90 Infamy + 10 = 110. Hooray, he automatically succeeds and the recently converted traitor, Brox, wayward son of the Ultramarines, fearfully hands over his boltgun to the Warmaster and stands back at attention, gunless, like an idiot.

 

Now, conversely, let us say that Abaddon has become marooned on some remote agri-world after his transport was shot down and the entire fleet moved on without him, "forgetting" to check and make sure their leader was safely back aboard the ship. Abaddon has run out of ammunition for the combi-bolter mounted atop the Talon of Horus, and as a means of linking back up with the Black Legion fleet, he offered to do a quest for the local grain hauler to buy transport off of the rock. In pursuit of said side-quest, let's say to kill a local xenos gribbly that is terrorizing the peasants, he fancies having a bit of dakka on hand. As these are a poor and primitive people, it is all but impossible for him to source new boltgun ammunition (coming in at Extremely Rare availability for but one ammo belt), but perhaps he would be interested in a fine array of flintlock muskets and particularly sharp cutlery from a farmer's cupboard loaded into an antique cannon, all at very reasonable prices (rare or better availability).

These are but a couple of (terrible) examples of how things could play out in this game.

Edited March 21 by Necronaut

[Mazer Rackham]

7 minutes ago, Necronaut said:

Look, I'm just calling balls and strikes here.

 

We'll have none of that Slaaneshi profligacy in here, my lad!

[Lord_Ikka]

I think Crux'as just needs some clothes- something suitable for either the equerry of a minor Rogue Trader or that of a minor, but prosperous trader (not Rogue) on his own. So something like -

Acquire Clothing (Good Quatlity)

Test - 29 + 10 (Average Availability) + 10 (Quantity - 1) - 10 (Good Craftsmanship) = 39

Is that correct?

[Lysimachus]

8 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Yeah, that's exactly what baked my noodle for a moment there as well, but I can see it all now.

 

Abaddon would be able to get arms (the ones with fingers, too) if he was on a Daemonforge World, because the Availability would be 'Dirt'.

 

 

8 hours ago, Necronaut said:

 

Taking your example of Abaddon and were he so interested in laying his grubby (and prone to falling off) mitts upon a Legion Bolter, yes to acquire but one, he would be facing a -20 modifier under ordinary circumstances. However, let's say Abaddon is aboard his flagship, the Vengeful Spirit, which is positively overflowing with Black Legion astartes and Legion hardware, not to mention it has its own forge. In this case, a Legion Boltgun could be considered to be Scarce (+0) or even Abundant (+10), not to mention he is the Warmaster of Chaos, which may incur further bonuses (or maybe none at all)

 

 

I hate to say it guys, but the Errata very clearly removes the 4th bit of Location being a modifier for Acquisition? (Pg 4)

 

So a Single (+10) Poor (+10) Legion Bolter (Extremely Rare -30) is at -10 overall and is therefore impossible for anyone to Acquire (except maybe at Character Creation), without the aforementioned haggling/thievery/GM changing the mods.

 

And saying that Abaddon would still be able to get one because he's the Warmaster of Chaos? You're kinda making my point for me, bud.

 

He's got influence and knows people and threat of being Talon'd, etc, etc, etc? Well, I agree with that. He should be able to get pretty much anything! But how is that influence represented in the game rules? His ridiculously high INFAMY value! If it is 120 (edit: just seen the table, it's 150+) that means anything low Rarity is going to be over 100 target and is therefore an auto-Acquire, and even high Rarity doesn't require a particularly difficult roll, which is surely the way it should be?

 

I'm sorry, the wording is poor, but it still doesn't make sense for it not to be the target number. It works exactly the same way as any roll, Characteristic value +/- modifiers = target number. (And the fact it says below 0 you just don't get it is just one of those things to stop people trying to Acquire items that are vastly beyond their reach, and just hoping to roll a 01 and auto-Pass)

 

Sorry guys, like I said I'm happy to play it however Mazer says, but I'm convinced I'm right on this one. :shrug

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Lysimachus

[Mazer Rackham]

8 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

I think Crux'as just needs some clothes- something suitable for either the equerry of a minor Rogue Trader or that of a minor, but prosperous trader (not Rogue) on his own. So something like -

Acquire Clothing (Good Quatlity)

Test - 29 + 10 (Average Availability) + 10 (Quantity - 1) - 10 (Good Craftsmanship) = 39

Is that correct?

 

Looks good to me.

 

1 hour ago, Lysimachus said:

I hate to say it guys, but the Errata very clearly removes the 4th bit of Location being a modifier for Acquisition? (Pg 4)

 

Interesting. That muddies things wonderfully.

 

 

1 hour ago, Lysimachus said:

...like I said I'm happy to play it however Mazer says...

 

Which is, essentially all that matters for folks, me included.

 

*Puts on  judge's silk  GM Hat*

 

I will ruminate upon this as to determine the best course of action. The need to prevent Players fishing for auto-pass is certainly something that bears consideration, but the levers of the GM must not be usurped. I will present my Ruling later today. In the meantime, for all other Acquisitions, there's always Barclaycard*.

 

I blame boredom for this. If you fellas had just let me throw around explosions, none of this would have happened. 

 

* = other financiers are available, subject to status and errata.

 

[Lord_Ikka]

Crux'as' roll for Acquisition 

Roll - 51

Result = Failure, 1 DoF

 

Well, that sucks. Could Crux'as perhaps balance the scales with a couple of autopistols and a knife or two from the resources?

[Mazer Rackham]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

Crux'as' roll for Acquisition 

Roll - 51

Result = Failure, 1 DoF

 

Well, that sucks. Could Crux'as perhaps balance the scales with a couple of autopistols and a knife or two from the resources?

 

Apologies, I meant to come back to you on this, but got caught up with stuff IRL. In this instance, I think it would be characterful for Crux'As to actually engage in some RP with Seneschal Strabo, using his Serpent's Tongue ability (yes it's once per session, but this 'session' is nearly over). Instead of Infamy, I think we can trade on Fellowship here, and the BC Rules encourage interaction as opposed to transaction.

 

In fact, I think if you hit good enough RP for an Incursion, you might even be able to get the prices/rarity down for everyone...

 

So, let's talk numbers for guidance. Strabo is at Neutral, because you've done nothing to him, and he wants to keep you onside (enough) for the job, and is partially invested in your group. He is, however, a hard-nosed SOB, so we're looking at an Opposed roll with -10 (you're expendable reprobates, after all). We can actually engage with this whenever you like, calling Strabo up on the comms line you have for him, (as long as you're in a place with a functioning deep-range transmitter (a ship, a base etc).

 

Just shout up if you'd like to have a go at that.

[Machine God]

50 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

For all other Acquisitions, there's always Barclaycard*.

 

I blame boredom for this. If you fellas had just let me throw around explosions, none of this would have happened. 

 

* = other financiers are available, subject to status and errata.

 

 

Well it's not our fault that we have to wait for Sunday to come along. 

 

 

I can't get my head around all the Acquisition and Infamy Tests anyway so I have to ask you knowledgeable persons. 

 

Kraggan wants to improve the Power Field on his Fallen Magos Power Axe to a Storm Field. 

 

Is this possible and what is the target number? 

 

 

 

[Lord_Ikka]

28 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Just shout up if you'd like to have a go at that.

I'll work something up tonight, on the last vestiges of awareness right now before my shift ends...

[Mazer Rackham]

15 minutes ago, Machine God said:

Kraggan wants to improve the Power Field on his Fallen Magos Power Axe to a Storm Field. 

 

Is this possible...

 

Yes.

 

15 minutes ago, Machine God said:

...and what is the target number?

 

Your axe is Extremely Rare -30, goes up a step for rarity in situ to -50 if you want it now.

 

If Crux'As does the biz, (i.e. successfully convinces the Seneschal it's all for the mission good), it will come down by -10, so you final number is -40 then.

 

5 minutes ago, Lord_Ikka said:

I'll work something up tonight, on the last vestiges of awareness right now before my shift ends...

 

Stay on target, brother. We'll pick up when you're rested. 

 

@FabiusV4lcoran Feel free to drop a post in about getting aboard the Wasp if you fancy a trip to the new ship. No pressure on it. Just want to try and keep you in the loop, as I know you've been left to sleep and get drunk.

[Necronaut]

@Lysimachus you know, I completely forgot about that wording in the errata saying to remove location modified availability, which, hilariously, flies in the face of the other supplements and directly contradicts numerous item entries which outright describe them as being more abundant in certain places. And I'm on your side here that the acquisition system as written is a bit silly and likely should be a test, modifiers and all, against your infamy score. I am wondering now, after all these years, if that was the original design intent but it got muddled up with the classic FFG jank and ambiguous wording. 

Edited March 21 by Necronaut

[Mazer Rackham]

15 minutes ago, Necronaut said:

I am wondering now, after all these years, if that was the original design intent but it got muddled up with the classic FFG jank and ambiguous wording. 

 

*Sighs in GM*

 

*Pats Necro on the shoulder.*

 

Yep. Yep, yep.

 

EDIT: Don't forget lads, that if you want simple (Common Quality) gear - rucks, belts, slings, combat webbing, etc, these can be made by you out of Supplies. This is what that stuff is for.

 

Edited March 21 by Mazer Rackham

[A.T.]

Not sure what this would fall under, but Xerxes would be looking to harden his noospheric interfaces against intrusion, both as protection from detection on-world and future encounters with the plague.

 

And a suitable robe/cloak combo for the appearance. A deep red flak cloak with the ablative property would be +0 base rarity IIRC? (scarce +1, single item)

[Lysimachus]

1 hour ago, Necronaut said:

@Lysimachus you know, I completely forgot about that wording in the errata saying to remove location modified availability, which, hilariously, flies in the face of the other supplements and directly contradicts numerous item entries which outright describe them as being more abundant in certain places.

 

Thinking about it, I wonder if the reason it is removed is just to simplify the process... but having it mentioned in those other sources show that it could be something that the GM could choose to include (but doesn't have to) as one of the extra mods to the roll, as he knows better what is available in the location he's created?

 

 

1 hour ago, Necronaut said:

And I'm on your side here that the acquisition system as written is a bit silly and likely should be a test, modifiers and all, against your infamy score. I am wondering now, after all these years, if that was the original design intent but it got muddled up with the classic FFG jank and ambiguous wording. 

 

That's definitely what I think. RAW - 0 or 100 mods. RAI - 0 or 100 target number.

 

 

Edit: to use Hagga wanting an Infernal Star as an example, the item itself is -30. So at the moment, his Inf just isn't high enough to bag it (30-30=0, Impossible to succeed)*

 

but by the end of the game (at Inf85) he'd have a reasonable shot of acquiring it (85-30=55)

 

or if the game continued to the point of him being one of Abaddon's greatest pals/rivals (Inf130) then he'd just get it (130-30=100, Auto-Acquire)

 

To my mind, that's the only way to interpret that paragraph that makes sense?

 

 

 

*Edit edit: though I suppose as soon as he hit 31 Inf, I could have a go at Acquiring it, making it a target of 01 - still extremely unlikely but not impossible... I guess that's where extra GM mods (such as location or whatever) might come into play?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Lysimachus

[Mazer Rackham]

35 minutes ago, A.T. said:

Not sure what this would fall under, but Xerxes would be looking to harden his noospheric interfaces against intrusion, both as protection from detection on-world and future encounters with the plague.

 

Sounds like an implant upgrade.

 

Have a look through your technogubbins and see if there's anything suitable for a polish. If not, we'll take a look at some kind logis implant or what have you, and modify the wording.

 

35 minutes ago, A.T. said:

And a suitable robe/cloak combo for the appearance. A deep red flak cloak with the ablative property would be +0 base rarity IIRC? (scarce +1, single item)

 

You could probably make this, albeit I'm going to start requiring folks to have armourer to fabricate it from scratch.

 

It will come out of supplies - I mean Flak, you've probably got it lying about? So it's just stitching, bit of welding, ceramic adhesive, dyes and cloth. Without the trade/crafting skill, it would only be Common Quality, so say 10 Supplies? All you need do, is put a -10 in the appropriate column on the google doc and just drop narrative about making it up.

 

This could then leave you with the ACQ for the brainbox.

 

Thoughts?

 

34 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

*Edit edit: though I suppose as soon as he hit 31 Inf, I could have a go at Acquiring it, making it a target of 01 - still extremely unlikely but not impossible... I guess that's where extra GM mods (such as location or whatever) might come into play?

 

This was my interpretation of it, and how I envisioned equipment progression. I think, however, a full consideration of process is required...

[Machine God]

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

Sounds like an implant upgrade.

 

Have a look through your technogubbins and see if there's anything suitable for a polish. If not, we'll take a look at some kind logis implant or what have you, and modify the wording.

 

 

You could probably make this, albeit I'm going to start requiring folks to have armourer to fabricate it from scratch.

 

It will come out of supplies - I mean Flak, you've probably got it lying about? So it's just stitching, bit of welding, ceramic adhesive, dyes and cloth. Without the trade/crafting skill, it would only be Common Quality, so say 10 Supplies? All you need do, is put a -10 in the appropriate column on the google doc and just drop narrative about making it up.

 

Kraggan has Trade: Armourer. 

 

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

This could then leave you with the ACQ for the brainbox.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

This was my interpretation of it, and how I envisioned equipment progression. I think, however, a full consideration of process is required...

 

[Xin Ceithan]

 

I think most of the arcane / psychic stuff is a bit out of Rakash’s league but there is always trading for information once we meet our new RT broker friend…

 

But Rakash might call dibs on the Drukhari if no one else is interested? 

[Mazer Rackham]

24 minutes ago, Xin Ceithan said:

I think most of the arcane / psychic stuff is a bit out of Rakash’s league but there is always trading for information once we meet our new RT broker friend…

 

But Rakash might call dibs on the Drukhari if no one else is interested? 

 

You want a Drukhari Burger too? 

 

Strabo will have suggestions on that.

 

34 minutes ago, Machine God said:

Kraggan has Trade: Armourer. 

 

Well, if you want to put together a Good Quality Flak coat, be my guest. No Tests required, just +5 Supplies on the base, so 15 Supplies.

 

Edited March 21 by Mazer Rackham

[Xin Ceithan]

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

You want a Drukhari Burger too? 

 

Strabo will have suggestions on that.

 

Guess it’s the other other pale meat ?! 
 

My thinking is more like there’s probably a buyer for everything and if you are trading for arcane stuff,  it’s nice to have something on the menu. 

 

 

[A.T.]

2 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Sounds like an implant upgrade. / Have a look through your technogubbins and see if there's anything suitable for a polish. If not, we'll take a look at some kind logis implant or what have you, and modify the wording.

 

You could probably make this, albeit I'm going to start requiring folks to have armourer to fabricate it from scratch.

 

Xerxes has the appropriate skill - do we have any formal list of what can be crafted and where the cut-off is for acquisition when it comes to upgrading the quality of things? (for mundane armour mostly)

Interface ports are 'rare' at a base level, if not particularly uncommon. 

[Necronaut]

2 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

 

You want a Drukhari Burger too? 

 

 

*Looks around nervously*

 

*Hides meat scoop*

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 21 by Necronaut

[Mazer Rackham]

2 hours ago, A.T. said:

Xerxes has the appropriate skill - do we have any formal list of what can be crafted and where the cut-off is for acquisition when it comes to upgrading the quality of things? (for mundane armour mostly)

 

No formal list, no. Simply more of an abstract flowchart relying on positive outcome:

• Have you got the training?
• Have you got the time?
• Have you got the stuff?
• Have you got the tools?
  • Also includes blueprints or technical diagrams.

The rest is 'GM says (insert rebuke/praise/insult here).

 

So if you wanted to make an 'x', run it through formula.

 

2 hours ago, A.T. said:

Interface ports are 'rare' at a base level, if not particularly uncommon. 

 

Should be an easy enough upgrade then, but I have a feeling we need to make it some kind of 'Machine Orthoproxy' where a black box is stuck in your head to provide Resistance (Scrapcode) or (Technovirus). Something like that. Thinking about it, you could perhaps acquire the technical diagrams to something if you wanted.

 

EDIT: Just throwing thoughts around, we could tie gear level to Armourer itself:

• Armourer Talent:
  • Can make Common Quality, and Poor Quality, and Uprgrade Poor Quality
• Armourer +10
  • Can make Good Quality, Common Quality and Poor Quality, and Upgrade Poor and Common Quality
• Armourer +20
  • Can make Best and all preceding Qualities and upgrade all preceding Qualities to Best.

 

Other stuff will make it easier to make Item Rarity. So, IIRC your workshop can handle up to Scarce? Bigger workshop, better stuff, I think we discussed.

 

Does any of this help give you a 'path'?

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Mazer Rackham