Plastic Legio Custodes Battlegroup + Coronus Grav-Carrier + Venatari + Liber

[Inquisitor Verhek]

IMHO, these fix everything i apparently had an issue with on the older versions. Not so bulky and cartoonish weapons, thinner with much crisper details, more regal appearances. The extra variety of head options this gives for more unique builds (all that I'll say about that can of worms,) wonderful!

I have wanted to want to do a custodes army in the past, but couldn't get past the models. I wanted to like them because who wouldn't want an custodes army?!

These are what they always should have been. Yeah, the legs lost a little detail, but compared to everything that was gained, small price to pay in comparison to how much better all the other details became.

I am especially loving the vehicles and dreadnaughts. Loved seeing them lined up with the glaive and whirlwind.

I won't be getting an army of these, my shame is big enough as it is, but I will probably be getting Captain Granny.

 

And... Wow! 8 pages and this thread hasn't been locked or warned yet?!

[StrangerOrders]

18 minutes ago, Scribe said:

 

Visual, by a certain definition. Nobody has made an argument for 80s/90s mass monsters being the definition of perfection and therefore the Custodes body type however.

 

I see now however that isnt your point, and again you seem to have really missed the mark.

 

Peak combat form, physically, is going to look a LOT more like say...an NFL running back, an MMA fighter, an Olympic wrestler. Functional strength, and endurance.

 

Nobody is, or at least I am not, arguing that a Custode is going to look like Dorian Yates. They are going to look like, an enhanced, larger, MUCH LARGER, Christian Mccaffrey, George St Pierre, or Aleksandr Karelin.

 

Now, as for the comment about hips, that was in response to you claiming that dimorphism within the 'custodes bodytype' would be...somehow a given. It wouldnt be. It makes no sense. Wide hips, narrow hips, we are talking about turning babies, into genetically perfect giants, and you think that the female traits would somehow remain after that, or that (absurd as it is) the male traits of size and strength would be....turned down?

 

This makes no sense, at all, on any level.

 

NOW, granted, this an absurd discussion about lore of dubious quality, for a made up game of toy soldiers but ask yourself this.

 

You have the ability to craft 'perfect' super soldiers, assuming you get access to the source material (a baby) early enough.

 

You claim this dimorphism is a good thing, which means, nearly by definition, that you expect and understand that there is a difference between the sexes.

 

If you are not going to obliterate any sexual differences in bone structure, fat content, and so on, and push the 'ideal' well what does that ideal look like for your perfect super soldier, defender of the Emperor?

 

It's not Dorian Yates, but it sure as hell looks a lot more like Aleksandr Karelin, than any woman.

Hmm... I think I see where our difference of perspective is and I think the point might be missed on your side as well, or we are just diametrically opposed, because you seem to not really be engaging with my original point and my response. 

 

Functional strength and endurance are themselves ultimately broken down into a philosophical debate, what is perfect and what is the definition you are ultimately going down  (sidenote, highly recommend the Physical series for some fun television that is obsessed with this question but retains lovely sportsmanship, especially the Physical:Asia season).

 

You seem to be arguing for a very narrow band of perfection whereas I am viewing this from the standpoint that perfection is ultimately down to such a degree of variance that someone like the Emperor (a literal shapeshifter) would not be satisfied with a single expression or approach to perfection. You'd also have to understand how many secondary and tertiary genetic factors go into something as seemingly simple as a single body-dimension and situation.

 

Put differently, you are really fixated on physical perfection being just a fighter... fighting builds kind of suck for alot of things beyond fighting whereas someone like a high-end cross fitter will both have a different build in some respects and be more generally capable, because specialization is a thing and the entire point of crossfit is sort of to avoid that like the plague with predictable results (even if you will never be terribly likely to beat one at their sport, but then you have to factor for things like rules and what would change without them, it gets messy). 

 

But I am not sure I am going to be able to convince you so we might have to be disagree.

 

I will however quote my favorite Custodian and the least punchable of their number (my hot take is that if I got to push one down a staircase that could kill them, it would easily be Valdor):

 

"We were never soldiers"

Edited January 17 by StrangerOrders

[StrangerOrders]

Just now, hd3 said:

Honestly this article struck me as even lazier than the original retcon. "Sure, they've been referred to solely as a brotherhood for thirty years, literally only depicted men in custodes doing anything relevant for the entire Horus heresy and we wrote custodes are drawn from the SONS of noble houses that doesn't imply anything about our recruitment practices! If a restaurant tells you we  use fresh beef from the organic butcher, you wouldn't assume they don't also use diseased mad cow flesh!  " 

 

It's the "there is no explicit rule saying a dog can't play basketball therefore it is permitted and canon" argument.  Honestly we'd respect their honesty at least if they just came out and said "we caved to lazy political cultural lobbying"  

 

 

I know some people just see any overtly male subculture, story faction, a fictional group or really just anything that isn't overtly gynocentric and immediately see red lances blinding them to reason. But broadly speaking why do we need to share everything at all? Why did GW do this instead of making a new all female faction ? Why did they expand and add more variety units and depth to sisters of silence? Why in the age of 3d printing and infinite customization, it's never enough for ones own models to be female, it has to be about the 'canon'?

 

TL:DR

It's probably not really about the story so much as how tourists feel they can change the setting to be broader fodder for the political culture war.

They could have given us more SoS, I want them to give us more SoS.

 

And thats not even to do with them, I just really like their one vehicle and want more with that weird :cuss: look.

[Scribe]

9 minutes ago, StrangerOrders said:

"We were never soldiers"

 

No, Soldiers, are the Space Marines. Mass Manufactured, and utilitarian.

 

Custodes, are Warrior Philosopher Kings, however until we see otherwise they ABSOLUTELY are crafted to be the pinnacle of individual fighting prowess, and yes, that involves speed, strength, power.

 

If you want to argue that in his wisdom, under that armour, we are actually looking at a bunch of marathon runners, and not guys like Aleksandr Karelin?

 

We can just stop the silly back and forth because its clearly pointless.

 

They are huge, they are described as absolute killing machines. They are obviously also going to be 'jacked' in the way those other men I mentioned are jacked.

 

They wont have the body type of Eliud Kipchoge, they will be Derrick Henry.

Edited January 17 by Scribe

[Nagashsnee]

I knew what i would find in this thread, but i am still disapointed. 

 

I like these more then the originals, closer to the art for the card game that pretty much defined custodes for me.  I kinda hope we get a new Valdor closer to the artwork from the game too. 

 

Scale wise it just doesnt matter, GW has proven for too long that they cannot keep the scale of their minis on point for any real length of time. 

 

Using these next to the 40k termies would probably be weird tho.  Forget putting Valoris next to them haha. Or that godawefull squatstodes character they made.

[Lord Marshal]

4 hours ago, chapter master 454 said:

Alright...so the real acid test: how many of these will get to have 40k rules vs. being a soft-removal to being 30k only things. Would love to see these for 40k and be a start at a breaking down of the garden walls between the games.

 

I think it's going to come down to whether or not 40k gets bespoke Custodes Dreadnoughts and Jump Packs in 11th.

 

If they're not getting those in 11th I could certainly see a continued Imperial Knights situation where they get the PDF treatment. If they are getting those in 11th, then it'll definitely be off to Legends for the 30k kits once their next codex rolls around.

 

In other words, in the long term I wouldn't count on it breaking down the walls, especially with them stating on social media the new 30k Skitarii won't be seeing rules.

 

Edited January 17 by Lord Marshal

[hd3]

 

21 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

I think it's going to come down to whether or not 40k gets bespoke Custodes Dreadnoughts and Jump Packs in 11th.

 

If they're not getting those in 11th I could certainly see a continued Imperial Knights situation where they get the PDF treatment. If they are getting those in 11th, then it'll definitely be off to Legends for the 30k kits once their next codex rolls around.

 

In other words, in the long term I wouldn't count on it breaking down the walls, especially with them stating on social media the new 30k Skitarii won't be seeing rules.

 

 

I hope everything gets legends rules for 40k or at least it has an straightforward proxy.  If they want to keep the core range fit for tourney play that's fine but the average player ought to have the option I think.

 

I don't know if my club is atypical or if the tournament competitive play crowd just has such a hugely disproportionate voice relative to the actual overall amount of play. But I see people using legends units constantly and it's never an issue.  I'm running a Deimos predators on my current lists because it's such good value for points cost .

Edited January 17 by hd3

[Grotsmasha]

For me, these are better models, although I agree the ankle's could've stayed a bit more chonky

[jaxom]

4 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Minicompare in the proccess of being updated (busy day for Kukulza)

 

 

Very close when ignoring the top knots, but I do  like me a good plume.

Looking at them side-by-side is helpful. The little extra height is nice, but it's the changes to the helmet and chestplate that I really like. The models are now made of cylinders rather than cones.

 

EDIT: A quick and dirty add-up and it looks like the box contents is like 990 plus or minus 30 points.

Edited January 17 by jaxom

[Nephaston]

5 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Looking at them side-by-side is helpful. The little extra height is nice, but it's the changes to the helmet and chestplate that I really like. The models are now made of cylinders rather than cones.

 

Especially since it's basically just a millimeter and a bit from the actual helmet tip, and 3mm at eye level, which can be almost accounted for the slightly wider stance this old guard has.

A lot of the additional mass the new ones have come from the cape, and they are otherwise leaner by a negligible amount.

 

If helmetless and otherwise same stanced they are functionally the same.

[Karhedron]

Thanks for the side-by-side comparisons. The height difference is actually less than I was expecting. My first impression was similar to the difference between Firstborn and Primaris but it is actually a lot less than that. 

 

I don't play HH but if all these units turn up in 40k then I would be seriously tempted. The only problem is that I think the Alarus Terminators would look a bit disappointing compared to the new models. The jetbikes will probably be OK as there is less of a direct visual comparison.

[Burni]

Shame they’ve lost the Aquilas on the greaves. The plain ones look wrong to my eye (and far too Stormcasty tbh).

 

My first reaction was ‘yeah an improvement’ but the more I look at them, the more unsure I am (mainly on the infantry).

 

Dread and tanks are great though. Look forward to the LI versions of them.

[Sete]

So 40K and 30K will have 2 different custodes ranges?

Edited January 17 by Sete

[Corswain]

8 minutes ago, Sete said:

So 40K and 30K will have 2 different custodes ranges?

They do now. Wouldn't really expect that to change. 

 

Some of the kits will be cross compatible per the article but I think most people will be pretty relaxed about proxies across the two ranges. 

 

Edit: I'm pretty out of touch with what the range for 40K is so I may be incorrect. If 40K has access to all the resin stuff then I doubt that will change much.

Edited January 17 by Corswain

[Nephaston]

20 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Thanks for the side-by-side comparisons. The height difference is actually less than I was expecting. My first impression was similar to the difference between Firstborn and Primaris but it is actually a lot less than that. 

 

Speaking of.

 

 

Most of these should be accurate as 40mm, 32mm, 28.5mm, and 25mm are pretty much on lock and I picked the most upright stances I could find. Some minis really tend to spread as far as their base allows it.

[Craig]

11 minutes ago, Corswain said:

They do now. Wouldn't really expect that to change. 

 

Some of the kits will be cross compatible per the article but I think most people will be pretty relaxed about proxies across the two ranges. 

 

Edit: I'm pretty out of touch with what the range for 40K is so I may be incorrect. If 40K has access to all the resin stuff then I doubt that will change much.

According to the New Recruit list building app all of these are also units playable in 10th edition and the box set comes to around a 950 point 40k army.

[Robbienw]

7 hours ago, WARMASTER_ said:

I didn’t call the main studio the 40K studio? I mean they’ve been brought in house as in Forge World we’re literally in a different building before and a much smaller department [Like had about 10 staff when heresy started] have now been moved and expanded within the business, with 30k being one of the 3 main game systems. I promise you they’ll be a lot more oversight from upper management these days as their budget has exploded and their release schedule has to now weave between 40K and AOS as they’re plastic releases. It’s naive to think that there won’t be. so me saying the Main studio IE “psychically moved into the main studio with everything that entails” stands 

So you are agreeing with what I said then, they’ve just got bigger and higher profile.

[Mogger351]

19 minutes ago, Corswain said:

They do now. Wouldn't really expect that to change. 

 

Some of the kits will be cross compatible per the article but I think most people will be pretty relaxed about proxies across the two ranges. 

 

Edit: I'm pretty out of touch with what the range for 40K is so I may be incorrect. If 40K has access to all the resin stuff then I doubt that will change much.

Honestly I think a lot of people are going "oooo shiny, I'll get those for a 40k army" and forgetting what happened with the marines releases.

 

40k custodes now have visually different characters, infantry in wardens (assuming they dont keep the current guard for 40k), terminators and jetbikes.

 

Those will look odd next to the 30k ones frankly, but that aside they have current 10th edition rules, which I expect will stay for 10th editions lifetime.

 

And therein is the problem, GW aren't acknowledging a new edition, so they may simply move them out to legends in 11th and release some kits that better match the 40k range. All the talk of use in 40k is based on 10th ed usage.

[Wispy]

Also its wild that people can nod along to "the squats were these cool votaan guys all along, nothing like the crazy biker dwarfs from the fast past editions," but the notion there might be some ladies under those custodes helmets causes a meltdown. 

 

I know what I think motivates it but I won't say it.

[Orange Knight]

10 minutes ago, Wispy said:

Adds variety and expands on a mostly undefined faction. I am one of you. A hobbyist of many years. I am glad they did this. I am not a tourist.

 

The faction has been very clearly defined for decades.

 

You're perfectly entitled to like or dislike the change, but let's not pretend that no change has taken place.

Edited January 17 by Orange Knight

[LemanPuss]

3 minutes ago, Wispy said:

Also its wild that people can nod along to "the squats were these cool votaan guys all along, nothing like the crazy biker dwarfs from the fast past editions," but the notion there might be some ladies under those custodes helmets causes a meltdown. 

 

I know what I think motivates it but I won't say it.

I disagree. My brother and I were huge fans of the old squats.

 

The votann range was a big disappointment, especially the weird golden animal heads they stick everywhere.

[Robbienw]

8 minutes ago, Wispy said:

 

I know what I think motivates it but I won't say it.

What do you think the motivation for adding them all of a sudden last year was?

[Redcomet]

Beautiful models 10/10 no notes.

 

This will be the beginning of my Defence of the Emperors palace collection I have always wanted to do. 

[Doghouse]

6 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Minicompare in the proccess of being updated (busy day for Kukulza)

 

 

Very close when ignoring the top knots, but I do  like me a good plume.

 

I think that the new versions are more in line with the original artwork and have the obvious advantage of being designed and made using more modern mono-pose sculpting techniques regardless of anyone's opinions, and to be honest this is them going forwards so it's a case of if you prefer the old ones start stocking up now and just buy the new vehicles to go with them. 

 

I personally prefer the brutish feel of the originals despite it being an older sculpt, the new ones feel overly slender to me and considering myself somewhat of an expert on this matter much like the new plastic space marines they not as proportionate as people are making them out to be.

 

This design, like all the new plastics are made specifically to fit the new collective aesthetic of the new Horus Heresy. 

[Orange Knight]

25 minutes ago, LemanPuss said:

I disagree. My brother and I were huge fans of the old squats.

 

The votann range was a big disappointment, especially the weird golden animal heads they stick everywhere.

 

It's funny. I really liked the Votann range when it was released.

 

Then I saw the Necromunda Squats and have not liked the Votann since. The Squats were just so much cleaner and thematically defined.