Brother Melice Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Great thread dude!!! Unfortunately I don't have time to read through it completely right now, because I have an angry squad of Sturnguard waiting for me... But, I did see that you came to a stall on the bikes??? I can't find whats throwing you off there...SincaiN's pictures of bikes are great, use that as reference... Send me some info on the Bike situation, I'll try to come up with something to help you out. Oh, and.... I'm definately stealing your idea for using Land Speeder Storm crews for my scouts when I get around to add them... I also wanted to ask you where are the sheathed knives from??? I ended up using the standard Tac knives, and they look like dope. AND DO A GROUP SHOT OF YOUR ARMY!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 SincaiN bikers are friggin awesome, but I've got 11 bikes and 2 attack bikes to do, and my brain is crashing trying to come up with ideas to make each unique yet united...which is a bit unusual for me. Hmm. Maybe I'm just psyching myself out a bit, I'll stop modeling for the night, sleep on it, and see if that helps any. Please feel free to steal any and all ideas here in this thread, I haven't copyrighted anything...yet...lol. The tac knives actually came on the backpacks, which are from the Imp. Guard Hvy weapons crew. And I'll do a group shot as soon as I get a new bulb for my lamp, promise. Thanks, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Alrighty *cracks knuckles* Time to show you what I think your Vengeance Marines should look like. http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac352/Noctus-Cornix/HPIM1281-1.jpg Apologies, it was a really quick rough sketch that I wanted to do to show you how I thought they should look. Ok so here's the deal. I'm not saying them look pretty, but lets be honest, Veteran or not you want these guys to look bad ass, not pansy pretty. I don't want that at all but you still gotta step it up bro. So I looked into your fluff again and I reread it. They didn't get new face masks they painted their helmets black. Keep it that way. You also mentioned dark cloaks. I liked that idea and so I went with it in sort of a dark rain poncho stlye. I thought it was unique and cool. As for their chapter marking. I don't think they should cover it up I think they should brutally gouge the damn thing out from their armour! The way I see it, these vengeance marines are no longer marines malevolent. they have transcended to a level of hatred beyond that of their brothers and just as the marines malevolent scourged the emblems of the imperial fists, so too do these avatars of hate scourge the markings of their past. So yeah, that's my idea man. Hope you like it. P.S. Yes that is a orc jaw bone nailed to his shoulder plate. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrunner42 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 @Noctus Cornix - two images popped into my head when I read your post, both concerning pauldron styles for the death-pledged veterans. One is to have black shrouds covering them (using the tactical/Terminator loincloth or parchment bitz), and another is to have holes/pits shaped exactly like the Chapter symbol, where they etched it permanently into their armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Dawnrunner: Not quite sure why as I said I didn't like simply covering the symbol and I said to have them literally gouge out their chapter symbols to be completely unrecognizable, leaving them completely void of any chapter symbol, but *shrugs* take what you want from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Although I've never been much of a bike-lover, I think they have the potential to be pretty cool miniatures. The only thing holding them back are their ridiculously little legs. They look like paraplegics stuck on a bike. So if you're willing to do some serious cutting and posing you could do some really cool stuff to model them like old style cavalry. Or even Kataphractoi, since your going for Greek/Roman stuff, even though they're technically not from the age you're taking inspiration from. But you could go for layered armour on the bikes, like on the front of your dread's sacrophagus, and have the riders stand in various poses of charging, standing up in their stirrups or on their bikes in risky poses to have at the enemy. You could even have one leaping off his bike to launch himself into close combat. I was watching the History of the Sword the other day and they mentioned that the Visigoths who had stirrups could stand up on their horse and rock it out while the Roman cavalary which didn't have stirrups was forced to clench the horse with their legs and were way less flexible in a fight; the Visigoths could literally stand and bend down to hack away while if the Romans tried that they'd fall off. Anyway, some pictures of cavalry: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1060402a_BretonnianArt.jpg http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2189/157lq3.jpg Also, just wanted to show you a picture of what I meant for your Vengeance Squad, these are the Varangian Guard. They were basically Vikings who travelled down to Greece and fought as the Byzantine Emperor's personal guard, and the one on the right has the mask, cept it's chainmail and not solid metal, but you get the picture: http://larsbrownworth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Varangian_Guard.jpg Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrunner42 Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Noctus Cornix - Ah, I see what it was...I mistook the ork jaw for a piece of parchment, so that's the origin of the pauldron shroud idea. Regardless, from a fluff standpoint the gouging out of the Chapter symbol would probably be a big no-no, although it would look cool and should definitely be seriously considered as an option here. It would probably be viewed as a tremendous insult to the armor's machine-spirit, and consider that even the Deathwatch is sure to keep one pauldron in the original colors and designs of their Chapter when they paint their armor black, in order to keep their armor happy. Besides, from a practicality standpoint are the Marines Malevolent really going to risk permanently impairing the functionality of armor they probably can't replace quickly (if at all) by gouging huge holes in it? Dual black pauldron shrouds and black-painted helmets are probably the best option here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SincaiN Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I agree with the idea of painting the helms black.. and the poncho idea was also my thoughts for using the Robes (robes just make me thingk the reaper has come for YOU!),.. I think if it were an on the battlefield selection it would be easier to slip on a robe and some slap on some paint then a whole new helm.. also agree that I don't know if they'd want to really scratch out the chapter symbol. Personally I'd think they'd want their enemies to see the symbol that crushed them, let the survivors know what level of hate/dedication their opponent would go to for vengence and victory. Maybe cover the pad in Pseals of the oath or some of the shouds like the BT use .. I could see them releasing their names as they are already dead in their mind but they are still MM and that is the very reason they are going to this level. Thanks for the props on the bikes :P .. It really didn't take me that long to make them. I just sketched them out first so I had an idea of what I was looking to make and then started cutting. I think the Calavry idea is a good one. After I made the tucked guy I was thinking damn I should have made one arm hanging low with a power sword .. would have looked like he was head hunting 8) You have put a lot of time into the rest of the army and having that many bikes is a large undertaking but I'd say put in the time. They will come out looking awesome. Also maybe make some tweeks to the bikes themselves. Maybe change out some wheels for larger ones or mismatched ones to make it feel piece meal. But in the end I'd go with what really sticks in your head and feels like your MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 @Noctis: I hear you brother, (and nice sketch, by the way!) but robes/ponchos/tabards just ain't doing it for me. They're fine for knightly orders, or to give that mystical / mysterious feel, but I don't feel they fit the MM. I've done some serious 'zen focus', in that I have 'stripped away the self' a.k.a. I am abandoning most of my homemade fluff (including the Vengance squads), and getting back to basics. I'm still using all canon fluff (GW and Nick Kyme), and the very basic stuff I've made up: The MM have disowned all primarchs including their own, because they all failed in their eyes. They are the inheiritors of the Great Crusade and Imperial Truth, as far as they're concerned. I'm keeping the Scholar-Brothers, and the Bibliosoph department (Librarium) due to the lack of psychics. And they hate every single one of you, especially the gene-failures (Salamanders, Blood Angels, etc) to the point of murder. Mr. Kyme I think said it perfect in 'Firedrake' : "The Marines Malevolent were little better than sanctioned. war-mongering psychopaths. ______ was amazed the Inquisition hadn't sectioned them excommunicate traitoris yet. Their reputation was certainly bloodthirsty and uncompromising." And this from the mouth of a traitor marine, lol. This is what I'm getting back to. Ideas have started flowing fresh again, I should have a new test mini up in a few days. Thanks for the help, man. @Goose: Thanks for the Mongolian pic...dude, just seeing that pic got the ol' gears turning again, thanks bro! And don't worry, I'm keeping the Sons of Malice/ MM feud, with just a few modifications. And finally, as requested, a group shot of what's built so far. (Still have only one light, sorry for the shoddy pic) Talk to y'all soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 very sweet! may I make a request :lol: If you are able and only if you want to of course, when you create the captain, can you have him showing disrespect to the salamanders in some way? like him standing on a sally helmet or a corner of a sally banner and hes stepping on it? just as a reminder that althought they are on the loyalists side they are viewed with much hatred and disgust by nobler chapters. as a fluff nut i would be sooooo happy and it would make everyone remember that these chaps arent scared to use bullets of imperial citizen and foe alike :sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 Ha! Oh, don't worry brother, I've had a very brutal image of my captain in my head for a while, you won't be disappointed... :sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 And now I have high expectations... ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 nice...i love how battered they look! :) no HQ yet? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambodia Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Nice, awesome, excellent, wicked, cool, sick, deadly extravagent what ever word you wanna use But i must say in all they F#$%ING ROCK!!! Main thing i want to applaud you on is That in your far milenium future there are still different races of humans not just different races of beings. You have the first ever black marines that i have seen and i think that is awesome. Good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Task Force Gauntlet Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Vey cool, the marines are all so unique. Can't wait to see the full army completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephrael Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I have a possible idea for your death masks, etc vengeance squad 1000Heathens. What if the chaplain draws aside those who have sworn their vengeance for a special ceremony conducted before all the gathered battle brothers on the eve of battle, whenever. He calls each marine forth and speaks his name and roll of honor one last time as he strips the marines armor of all his purity seals, oaths of moment, trophies, etc. These items are heated in a pyre of blessed fuel, whatever. The masks are then heated in the embers and at the height of the ceremony they are removed from the pyre and placed on the marine's face while still nearly molten hot. The mask is then permanently "welded" to the marine's face. After each marine is thus branded, remade that the chaplain takes the hot ashes from the cooling pyre and marks the aquilla on each marine's chest, offering his soul to the Emperor and guaranteeing his place by His side at the "End Time," final apocalyptic battle against Mankind's enemies. The black cloth could represent the marine's acceptance of death before the battle and thus concludes the "Funerary/ascendance" Rites and the rest of the regular marines get ready for battle while the chosen select their necessary wargear and steel their souls for the battle to come. Just a thought but it seems to make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undecideded Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 spent the better part of the past couple hours catching up on this thread. I love the idea of the mm, room only in their heart and duties for hate and vengeance willing to annihilate anything in their way to well slaughter the emperors enemies...and if i may join this late in the party i would like to humbly offer up my opinion for the Vengeance Squads. I LOVE the sketch drawn by noctus...and as much as i would hate to suggest it being such a firm hater of the DA i think their robes (albeit torn and ripped) would work perfectly...as you want a cloak/cape to make them seem revenantish but dont want to be confused with mortarion's body guards...you could go as far as carve out the helmets and replace it with a "shadow" of distortion idk...like that custodes in the "blood games" short story in the Tales of Heresy book...where he wears that cloak that "hides and distorts" his astartes physique, this would give you the nameless/identity wipe you were looking for. I hope this helped as vague and ill worded as it all is haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 First off, I'd like to say that I am no kind of artist whatsoever, so please excuse the shoddy drawing, lol. I really wanted to get my new ideas in a sketch first before I ruined another model. Second, I have completley abandoned the 'Vengance Squad' idea in every way, shape, and form. This decision wasn't made lightly, though. The more I thought about the Vengance squad, the more I felt it didn't fit the MM. If some force or individual really had ticked off the Chapter, I feel that they would use every Marine possible to exact vengance (if not just an orbital bombardment...), not just a squad or two. Also, sending a 5-man squad to their deaths means 5 suits of warplate and weapons gone forever...bad for a Chapter that can barely maintain the suits they have. Finally, a small group of men giving their lives for their Chapter's honour seems very...Knightly. Which is not what the MM are. They're theives, murderers, backstabbers and psychopaths; yet they are arrogant and (inserting my homemade fluff here) believe they're the inheiritors of the Great Crusade, the last true astartes in the Imperium. Sooo...How to represent this? This is what I came up with... I kept the black helms, but added a Gold lightning bolt to the underside of the left lens, plus a lightning bolt tattooed under the left eye, repeated in random places all across their armour, but in steel. This is representing their honorary induction into 'The Pride', the Lord Commanders (chapter master) personal Crusade. This is also a nod to the homemade fluff I made that these fellas think that the last true astares before them were the original Terran Marines, before the Primarch's were found and ruined everything, so thy to be like them as much as possible. This is also represented by the scalplock haircut, which every member of The Pride has. I then loaded this fella down with personal trophies of all sorts, since this guy is a Vet, and the MM love showing off how badasski they are to outsiders. As a final touch, and an insult to everyone else, the members of The Pride carry no less than the Emperor's Personal Heraldry (small red shield), delusionally believing that they are the only ones worthy of carrying it. Truly a spit in the face of every other Astartes out there, and proof of their absolute arrogance. Better? I welcome all thoughts and opinions....be nice.... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Cool, I like it. Except for the creepy yellow eyes, jeez man how scary do you want them? ;) Nah kickass all round, good idea and I look forward to some models (even though I was excited to see some Varangian Guard faceplates.. sigh..). However I was thinking, you keep describing these guys as delusional and proud and crazy about killing their enemies and whatnot and yet they're extremely pragmatic when it comes to matters of supplies and not wasting ammo and armour etc etc. It's interesting, but I can't really see the kooks you describe as caring about trivial matters such as being careful not to let things go to waste in their pursuit of higher goals such as killing in the Emperor's name; they even let their (holy - although I guess they don't believe that) armour get into states of dismal disrepair, yet they're always careful not to waste ammo or suits of armour. Even though they sorta do by letting them get so rusty and stuff. Yah know? Just something I thought of when you mentioned that they wouldn't have suicide squads; but wouldn't the Glory and Hate stuff outweigh the loss of 5 suits of armour? Anyway, as always looking forward to more, especially the bikes now. I got all excited about the cavalry thing haha I'm considering making some myself actually! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 @goose: I thought about the armour issue a couple of times, but that's actually a bit out of my hands, as that's stuff that Nick Kyme has been making up in his 'Salamander' books...I'm just trying to follow fluff. Kyme describes their armour as battered and patched up, and the paint chipped so badly that it's mostly ceramite, and that they use a number of older marks of warplate. Even their captain uses a half ruined power fist that has it's fingers fused, and his personal guard wear old, old marks of Terminator Armour. Yet he still describes them as war-mongering psychopaths. I'd guess that they'd love to keep fighting and murdering on and on, but they have been forced to admit that even they need to pick and choose their fights now that their supplies are low. They fight when they can, and steal when they can't, so that they can still keep fighting. Such theft would never get them back to optimum condition; just enough to get back into the fight. 5 suits of armour would be a high price to pay when you could use some dirty trick to get revenge instead, which wouldn' t be beyond the MM. Using civilians to draw in a horde of Orks, then while the orks are busy choppin' 'umies, artillery the whole dang area, and to hell with the collateral damage. This is what Captain Vinyar did on Armageddon....I'd say the loss of 50 or so rounds of arty (easily stolen from some poor Imp Guard pukes), instead of losing 20 marines and their equipment (very hard to replace), is called a 'Mission Success' to the MM. They have a different view of what 'glory' means, lol. Edit: Sorry, the eye's were supposed to be green...guess it didn't make it through the scanner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undecideded Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 like the turn around even MORE so bc of those KILL MARKINGS...whenever i saw the rhino i thought to myself..."well if i was a space marine and i just knocked off a Nob id notch something right quick before carrying on with my day." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vairocanum Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 i really like the idea of how the marines malevolent use the emperor's personal heraldry, and the terran hairstyle. since the mm are borederline heretical, maybe you could have them wear salvaged csm armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ephrael Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 What about trying to work in some MK 7 chest plates but carefully scrape off one eagle head and leave the other to bear the emperor's heraldry. Have you given any thought to using some ork bikes to mix the look of your bike army? I'm sure that you could cover up and xenos symbols and the bikes would look suitably battle worn when painted up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The group shot is great! I still love that dread! Just read through some of your reasoning for the direction you want to take your army and I must say I am interested in the MM. Looking forward to what you come out with next as a lot of thought is going into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortsonfire79 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Nice 1k, each model is perfect in his own way. So much character for all of them! I think the scout running forward is my favorite one. :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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