[HH1.0] Tactica Chainaxe: World Eaters

[Guiltysparc]

thing is, even with the cover saves, that melta lance is nasty.  You're most likely going to get 3 pens off it (statistically all 3 shots will hit and give a 16 (9 + 3 + 4) for armor pen), lose 1.5 to saves, that still likely to be 2 pens (given a rounding up of fortune) then 3 more in the 2nd round of shooting.  I wouldn't stress too much over getting out vs staying in the pod, the melta lance will put in work either way.

[TompiQ]

That's a pretty dangerous generalization though. Mathhammer is a measure of potential, not absolutes. You shouldn't be rounding anything up or down. The melta lance averages 2.5 hits. Versus AV13 S9 has 1/6 chance to glance and 2/6 chance to pen without melta (due to range or AC), 1/2 chance of stripping a hull point. Rolling 2 dice for AP leaves us with 1/12 chance to glance and 10/12 chance to pen, or 11/12 chance to strip a hull point.

 

So in the open we can expect some major damage to be dealt, we all surely agree. However, if we put the numbers together we will see that we get 50/24 or 2.083 pens versus AV13 when we're within melta range and the target is without armoured ceramite. So without even accounting for shrouding or some other type of save we're already at your expected 2 pens as our average potential. With a 5+ save we're closer to one than two.

 

And here's an interesting anecdote answering the following misconception, which I in no way attribute to you personally:

But TompiQ, there are no fractions when rolling dice. With a ballistic skill of 5 you have much greater odds of hitting with all shots than missing!

 

Well, not quite. What we can do to gain further precision in our mathhammering is divide the above mentioned potential into sub-groups. To do this we calculate the odds. For example, firing three shots with BS5, how large are the odds that I get three hits? It's (5/6)^3, 125/216 or ~58%. The opposite end of the spectrum, 3 misses, is way lower at 1/216 or ~0.5%. But the odds for two misses? It's slight but noticeable at 15/216 or ~7%. Here's the kicker though: The odds for one miss is 75/216 or 35%, substantially higher than one might think at first glance.

 

The takeaway from this is that every time a Melta Lance is fired you can only expect a max number of hits 58% of the time. The odds of three hits are higher than even a single miss, but it's not by such a wide margin. However, what we can tell from this math is that the odds of hitting at least twice is close to 93% (200/216). Thus we are much better served by saying that we expect at least two hits, and calculate the average damage from there. Otherwise the margin of error is too high.

 

TL;DR: Average damage of a BS5 Melta Lance (rolling 2D6 for AP) vs Armour 13 is roughly 2 pens and 0.2 glances, however the Leviathan only has a 58% chance of actually hitting three times to begin with. 42% of the time you will have at least one miss, which lowers the potential damage by a lot even before saves.

 

EDIT: So with one layer of odds on top of our averages, our results look like this:

 

58% 3 hit(s), average 2.50 pens and 0.25 glances, 2.750 hull points

35% 2 hit(s), average 1.67 pens and 0.17 glances, 1,833 hull points

7%   1 hit(s), average  0.83 pens and 0.08 glances, 0.916 hull points

<1% 0 hit(s)

Edited January 18, 2017 by TompiQ

[Guiltysparc]

My degree is in math so i greatly appreciate that response!  However, I would frame it as you are most likely to get all hits (58% of the time as you say).  

 

My point, really, was more that the existence of shrouding doesn't kill the melta lance on the the levi, it will still put in substantial work over 2 rounds of shooting.  People tend to write off everything other than the bombard with the levi because of cover saves, but in reality that just isn't the case.

[Withershadow]

That's a pretty dangerous generalization though. Mathhammer is a measure of potential, not absolutes. You shouldn't be rounding anything up or down.

Preach!

 

Just to be pedantic, you'll also be firing a meltagun with the other fist.

[Slips]

Yeah, 3 S9 Ap1 and 1 S8 Ap1 shots even without Melta coming into effect can still do something if RNGesus wills it.

[TompiQ]

 

That's a pretty dangerous generalization though. Mathhammer is a measure of potential, not absolutes. You shouldn't be rounding anything up or down.

Preach!

 

Just to be pedantic, you'll also be firing a meltagun with the other fist.

 

 

I was discussing the melta lance as a weapon choice and not the entirety of the Leviathan 

[Unholyechoes]

I was discussing the melta lance as a weapon choice and not the entirety of the Leviathan

It is an amazing short range can opener, if that is what you need. I would use it to pop transports, and walk a grav Levi or dual kheres with it to eat the contents.

[Billy Butcher]

As an aside has anybody tried a stormlord instead of two Spartans?

 

Thinking of both the points and financial advantages myself.

 

And the rule of cool with a berserker bus.

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

TIA

Edited January 23, 2017 by Harrypotter

[Slips]

Doable but a few issues to keep in mind:

 

-You're not shooting twice with its anti MEQ Gun. If you are, youre not moving which potentially means delaying a charge.

 

-You already have a boatload of anti MEQ with inductiis

 

-You want to move the tank forward which exposes its pathetic rear armour.

 

-Eggs in one basket that can go boom in a D blast surprisingly easily due to the previous point.

 

 

The advantages are that its a SHV moving 12" every turn that is "open-topped" whilst ignoring all but the explodes results on the damage table.

 

In the world of Melta Lance Leviathans who, with their 3 shots + 1 meltagun, are capable of dealing a total maximum of 4D3+4 HPs in damage if RNGesus blesses them, I'd strongly consider other options first.

 

If you want to go for it though, go for it.

[Gorgoff]

It's all about the Meta you play in. We are 8 dudes and only two of us has a Leviathan. Neither of them got the Melta thingy so yeah, I could field the Stormlord and it would work. As a matter of fact I want to and I will, because I don't like the Spartan model very much. Edited January 23, 2017 by Gorgoff

[TompiQ]

If you want a berserker bus I'd consider the mastodon.

[Gorgoff]

If you want a berserker bus I'd consider the mastodon.

The Mastodon is one of the coolest kits FW has made ever. No doubt about that, but points wise I get a Stormlord plus a Land Raider instead of one Mastodon. Not to meantion the huge gap € wise.

So, yeah, I gonna buy a Mastodon.

Wait.

What?

That wasn't the conclusion I wanted to make.

What I wanted to say was, that I'll buy a Mastodon because of reasons.

Ehrm...

Maybe I should think about that. :D

[Unholyechoes]

I would love a mastadon full of inductii.

[Billy Butcher]

Cheers guys, I'll probably try a stormlord, if it's a disaster my painting is usually good enough that I can sell it on for the cost of a spartan (fingers crossed). Edited January 24, 2017 by Harrypotter

[Unholyechoes]

Is this for an allied detachment? I may have missed it, but the only Baneblade variant I see Astartes able to take is the Stormblade.

[Gorgoff]

Damn, the Stormblade is hell of a gun. Great looking tank. Can't transport stuff but this gun. Freaking awesome.

[Unholyechoes]

Damn, the Stormblade is hell of a gun. Great looking tank. Can't transport stuff but this gun. Freaking awesome.

Thats why there is no model for it :p

[Gorgoff]

Wait what?

Two weeks ago may buddy used his model in a game. Where did he get that? :O

[Unholyechoes]

Wait what?

Two weeks ago may buddy used his model in a game. Where did he get that? :O

Sorry, thats my bad, it just is not a varient of the GW Baneblade and FW does not have it in the LOW cat in their web store.

[Unholyechoes]

I have decided my next purchase is going to be a Typhon Siege Tank. Great Str and AP, large blob, and decent range to support a berzerker style charge. Enemy too close to shoot? Thunderblitz! Plus the points are low enough to be used in a standard game.

[Fangbanger]

L.o.w = Angron

 

That is all

[Unholyechoes]

I have Angron, but love adding a narrative. I may use him in battles pre Armatura, but my chapter/company left after the battle to go kill smurfs independently. Edited January 26, 2017 by Unholyechoes

[Brad_hutcho]

So, maybe a silly question here people but...  I'm just getting back into GW stuff, and found out I can actually play 30K (awesome since I love the narrative so much better than 40K anyway.  As a long time WE fan, this is also great cause I can finally field an army of CC madmen that will actually work.  Now I've read through most of this thread, gotten all excited and am the proud owner of the two red books, and a shiny Angron (cause the model is so amazing).  Now I've actually gotta build an army around him.  A lot of suggestions on here said bodyguard him with a squad of Despoilers, because they're cheaper than Butchers, plus with Angron, don't actually need extra killyness, just bullet shields.  So, longwindedly, my Q is, where are the rules for despoilers?  I'm guessing that they're tac squads with cc weapon and bolt pistol, but I don't wanna write up a list and order expensive FW stuff that wont get used.  Is this right?

[Unholyechoes]

So, maybe a silly question here people but... I'm just getting back into GW stuff, and found out I can actually play 30K (awesome since I love the narrative so much better than 40K anyway. As a long time WE fan, this is also great cause I can finally field an army of CC madmen that will actually work. Now I've read through most of this thread, gotten all excited and am the proud owner of the two red books, and a shiny Angron (cause the model is so amazing). Now I've actually gotta build an army around him. A lot of suggestions on here said bodyguard him with a squad of Despoilers, because they're cheaper than Butchers, plus with Angron, don't actually need extra killyness, just bullet shields. So, longwindedly, my Q is, where are the rules for despoilers? I'm guessing that they're tac squads with cc weapon and bolt pistol, but I don't wanna write up a list and order expensive FW stuff that wont get used. Is this right?

You are correct. Remember that if you are going to count the ccw as a chainaxe for the +1 Str, the book says you must have a chainaxe on the models.

[Brad_hutcho]

 

So, maybe a silly question here people but... I'm just getting back into GW stuff, and found out I can actually play 30K (awesome since I love the narrative so much better than 40K anyway. As a long time WE fan, this is also great cause I can finally field an army of CC madmen that will actually work. Now I've read through most of this thread, gotten all excited and am the proud owner of the two red books, and a shiny Angron (cause the model is so amazing). Now I've actually gotta build an army around him. A lot of suggestions on here said bodyguard him with a squad of Despoilers, because they're cheaper than Butchers, plus with Angron, don't actually need extra killyness, just bullet shields. So, longwindedly, my Q is, where are the rules for despoilers? I'm guessing that they're tac squads with cc weapon and bolt pistol, but I don't wanna write up a list and order expensive FW stuff that wont get used. Is this right?

You are correct. Remember that if you are going to count the ccw as a chainaxe for the +1 Str, the book says you must have a chainaxe on the models.

 

Oh yeah, don't worry, I intend for everything in this army to be carrying an axe of some description   even if it costs me an arm and a leg.  I'm actually going to order seperate sprues of the Mk II Assault marines too, cause, while it's cheaper to buy the Mk IV deal, I love the MK II models so much better, those jetpacks are the bomb

Edited January 28, 2017 by Brad_hutcho