the BIG 9th edition room

[BitsHammer]

So they changed how combat activation works:

“The player who isn’t taking their turn gets to choose the first non-charging unit to fight with”

Which means if you charged, on the next turn you get first pick for anything still in combat (after their units that charged).

[Brother Kraskor]

 

So they changed how combat activation works:

“The player who isn’t taking their turn gets to choose the first non-charging unit to fight with”

Which means if you charged, on the next turn you get first pick for anything still in combat (after their units that charged).

 

 

So unless your opponent charges a new unit into the existing melee that you previously set up, you will get two first cracks of the whip. Pretty big advantage!

[BitsHammer]

 

 

 

So they changed how combat activation works:

“The player who isn’t taking their turn gets to choose the first non-charging unit to fight with”

Which means if you charged, on the next turn you get first pick for anything still in combat (after their units that charged).

So unless your opponent charges a new unit into the existing melee that you previously set up, you will get two first cracks of the whip. Pretty big advantage!

Yup. It gives a fair bit of benefit that isn't immediately apparent.

[Medjugorje]

That seems weirdly unintuitive to me and is a massive, MASSIVE buff to Slaanesh. Not entirely sure I like this change, but there is probably another balancing factor.

I think thats a mistake and made absolutly 0 sense. Why should the opponent start?

 

EDIT: ok, but it seems weird still.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Medjugorje

[BitsHammer]

 

 

That seems weirdly unintuitive to me and is a massive, MASSIVE buff to Slaanesh. Not entirely sure I like this change, but there is probably another balancing factor.

I think thats a mistake and made absolutly 0 sense. Why should the opponent start?

It's only first choice in the alternating activation part of the fight phase after the chargers are done fighting. It's likely to balancw melee more.

[Hymnblade]

It's a slightly funny change, and hard to characterize as a buff or nerf to anyone per se. It does mean that, if you charge, the order of combat over that battle round will be you-them-you-them, rather than you-them-them-you. So it makes it a bit harder to repel charges without a counter-charge. But once there are ongoing combats or counter-charges come into play, I'm not sure it really favors any army in particular.

 

If the same passive-player-first order applies in the "charge/fight first" selection, then fight-first abilities look a lot better.

[Sete]

Like AoS? I like it.

[Medjugorje]

It's a slightly funny change, and hard to characterize as a buff or nerf to anyone per se. It does mean that, if you charge, the order of combat over that battle round will be you-them-you-them, rather than you-them-them-you. So it makes it a bit harder to repel charges without a counter-charge. But once there are ongoing combats or counter-charges come into play, I'm not sure it really favors any army in particular.

 

If the same passive-player-first order applies in the "charge/fight first" selection, then fight-first abilities look a lot better.

hmm - the main fight is already over but it could be well if you have to decide and devot push is even better then before.

 

 

All in all:

 

- melee get a few buffs in terms of terrain and less overwatch + smaller tables.

- aggressive armies will benefit because of the new activation system ( btw - do you have any source on that?)

- one keyproblem we used to have in 8th edtion is our poor number of CP which is now improving a lot.

- Our very strong vehicles are very powerful right now (but maybe a few other armies are even better).

Edited June 20, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Hymnblade]

It's mentioned in today's Faction Focus: Death Guard on warhammer community.

 

Another change mentioned in Faction Focus: Adepta Sororitas was that you have to be able to reach all the charge targets you declare, or else the charge fails. This hurts for CC armies, but considering our chapter tactic, it maybe hurts us less than most.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

This is actually a nerf to us, as it means if we use Divine Push to pile into an enemy unit, that enemy will get to swing before we can. Though it does mean our fight first prayer now has a reason to exist.

 

It's a potentially massive buff to Slaanesh, because their shtick is that they get to fight first, so even in the assault phase, we might not count as charging them and they would then get to swing before us. In short, if the rules don't play nice with us, or Slaanesh gets a change to their faction rule, charging them could be a nightmare.

 

Sigmar is different. In Sigmar nobody gets a strike first from charging, but the turn player always strikes first in alternation. In addition, there are very few army wide strike first rules in Sigmar because it would break combat. Slaanesh instead has a rule where their characters choose an enemy and roll, and on a 5+ (3+ for greater daemon) the target fights last. So it's more limited in scope.

 

I'm not freaking out about this change or anything, but it has the potential to be the worst thing for charge armies we've seen thus far if fight first is given the same treatment. But as long as it's rare or works differently it should be fine.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Marshal Valkenhayn

[Medjugorje]

devot push could be used in the enemy phase with a chaplain give us 6". 

But the whole thing how melee works will change.

[Brother Kraskor]

devot push could be used in the enemy phase with a chaplain give us 6". 

But the whole thing how melee works will change.

 

This. If you Devout Push in the enemy turn, your unit might as well have charged because unless you've Pushed into a unit with a fight first rule, you will be able to choose that unit first after all the chargers have gone.

[Medjugorje]

the new stratagem which allows to fall back even if you are locked in combat and surrounded by enemy models is a very bad one for close combat armies but more interesting will be if our 2CP stratagem will work against this core stratagem.

[BitsHammer]

the new stratagem which allows to fall back even if you are locked in combat and surrounded by enemy models is a very bad one for close combat armies but more interesting will be if our 2CP stratagem will work against this core stratagem.

There are some interesting nuances to the strat. Like you can only do it if the unit hasn't been selected to move that turn and it only allows them to fall back with a caveat that you can move through enemy models, so it looks like anything that can trigger to stop falling back can result in wiping the unit if they fail the roll (like shardnets).

 

Alternatively, there may be a way to fail falling back and this was written to ensure units can't try twice.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Fulkes

[Medjugorje]

that means that they spend 2CPs and maybe we can still say: no on a 2+

[Hymnblade]

Things that deny falling back may now auto-wipe the unit, since they can't get out of engagement range. It's hard to tell how it interacts yet. Spending 2CP to negate their 2CP isn't a bad deal though.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

That interaction is actually funny. Because of the timing interaction with Fall Back. They have to spend 2CP, roll a die for each model to see if any survive, then, the unit can attempt to fall back.

At which point you can spend your 2CP and they're stuck, and, depending on the rules interaction, they may all die.

[Punchomatic]

So don’t Judiciars just let you swing first anyway? Throw one of them in your unit, devout push, profit?

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

It's either that, or they make an enemy unit fight last. Whichever it is it has the potential to help us out quite a bit once he drops. We'll have to see if this is important enough to make him an auto include, though as BT, melee characters are pretty exciting for us anyway.

[Punchomatic]

How exactly do we think Desperate Breakout and Tenacious Assault interact?

[Medjugorje]

How exactly do we think Desperate Breakout and Tenacious Assault interact?

thats the question just GW can answer

[BitsHammer]

The way I understand it is that Despserate Break out eould trigger, they would roll to see if any models die, then any gameplay effects that could prevent them from leaving combat (wargear, strats, ECT) would be triggered and if they fail to leave combat because of that the unit is wiped.

[Punchomatic]

The thing is Tenacious Assault says they don’t get to fall back so maybe the fall back is cancelled and nothing happens? Seems like they didn’t consider this interaction.

 

I’m shocked. Shocked, I say!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So don’t Judiciars just let you swing first anyway? Throw one of them in your unit, devout push, profit?

You say this as if then you can devout push a character and a unit at once?

[Medjugorje]

we dont know how the duiciar will work. Maybe its an aura - maybe its an ability you have to be within 1" of the enemy...