The Horus Heresy Solar Auxilia

[Lord Marshal]

45 minutes ago, skylerboodie said:

So anyone's existing resin Solar Auxilia infantry are going to look small alongside these ones? 

 

The resin ones were already on the taller side of models for the time, so I'd be surprised if they are. GW is generally a lot better about not scale creeping humans than Marines (Karskin aside).

[Cleon]

2 hours ago, Fire Golem said:

Presumably limited like the Legiones Astartes one 

Which is a real shame - the ability to buy a box like that in bulk occasionally at a discounted price makes going 'allies for Astartes', 'with Astartes allies', 'full force' much more palatable. With a 'Probably can't get the box' then 'everything full price later' committing to any Auxillia is a much harder sell.

[SvenIronhand]

It is a crying shame the Dracosan doesn’t have 40K rules. Would be perfect for a “heavy mechanized” Regiment.

[RedFox]

I'm definitely using some of them to reinforce my vostroyan...just gonna swap their heads. Happy we also finally get a new plastic leman russ

[jaxom]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:54 AM, Astartes Consul said:

Their lore position of space/boarding and hostile environments…but also just a general template for elite formations, has always struck me as being a compromise. GW didn’t want to release a purely Zone Mortalis faction, but the rules and model range made running a non-ZM force just insanely expensive and unwieldy. Until now (maybe). 

 

 

There's so much we don't know about the third Solar Crusade and how the Saturnine and Jovian Enclaves were folded into the nascent Imperium. The Saturnine infantry were classical marines, and the Saturnine and Jovian fleets provided the forces required for expanding out of the Sol system. Because there was no division between 'army' assets and 'navy' assets, it seems likely that what became known as the Solar Auxilia were the template because it was the Saturnine and Jovian ships and infantry doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

 

On 1/19/2024 at 7:40 AM, Orange Knight said:

I would love for them to have 40k rules. Isn't this faction technically still around in 40k as the regiments of Terra and the various planets in the Solar System?

I know they have a different organisation, but are they visually completely different?

 

The Departmento Munitorum determines tithe grades for planets, what meets those grades, and what is "standard" for equipping an Astra Militarum regiment. Regiments can be tithed; a fully equipped regiment meets a higher tithe grade than a regiment of club-wielding feral worlders who technically still need to be issued flak jackets and lasguns. Similarly, equipment can be tithed, and often goes along with a manpower tithe from a nearby world. So long as the weapons and armor match standards set by the Departmeno Munitorum, they will meet tithe requirements. Many worlds just copy Cadian patterns because they're known to reliably meet Departmento standards (much like some armies will effectively copy equipment from other nations for local production). 

 

However, the Imperial Heartlands of the inner Segmentum Solar often have factories and traditions dating back thousands of years (@Doghouse and @Lord Marshal address this in their responses). While the Heresy and other wars led to the Heartlands not being able to supply galaxy-spanning armies, they can still provide Solar, Jovian, and Mars pattern equipment to local regiments and those favored by the Deparmento Munistorum. For example, Krieg is directly overseen by the Departmento for producing bodies and their armoured regiments are then supplied with Mars pattern tanks.

 

Another factor is form-and-function. Some regiments are specialized because of where they come from. Famous examples are the Tanith 1st-and-only, Elysian Drop Troopers, Catachan Jungle Fighters, and the Valhallans. We've always been told that regiments with similar specialties effectively use the same equipment; e.g. Armageddon Ork Fighters are armed like Catachans because they operate in the jungle unlike all the other Armageddon regiments. A place with a reason to develop void-speciality would end up equipped like the Solar Auxilia. Off the top of my head, imagine an asteroid field which ran out of metals a few thousand years back. Each former mining colony becomes a low-grav hellhole which produces regiments that excel at attacking magna-scale space architectures (Roks, Dyson Spheres/Rings, Craftworlds) that are too large for boarding parties, armed to create and exploit hard-vacuum.

 

On 1/19/2024 at 7:51 AM, lansalt said:

Nope, they dissapeared at some point during the reforms that resulted in the creation of the Imperial Guard after the Heresy. Navy Breachers do their job as void/boarding troopers and Scions as the elite of the IG.

 

We need to differentiate between the Saturnine Ordos and the later Solar Auxilia coming from planets without fleet traditions and/or major naval assets. Planets effectively became a source for naval assets or a source for ground assets. The Jovian Enclaves became naval assets so their infantry assets were not rebuilt after the Heresy (we don't know exactly what happened to the Saturnine Enclaves). A team of Jovian Navy Breachers would probably heavily resemble the Solar Auxilia, but they don't produce Astra Militarum regiments anymore. Other places, like Agathon became ground-assets. Their initial post-Heresy regiments probably resembled the Solar Auxilia, but it's up to individual headcanon how much they would continue to do so over 10,000 years.

 

 

Edited March 18 by jaxom
Updated, because as pointed out I was conflating Saturn and Jupiter.

[Kastor Krieg]

9 hours ago, Orion said:

Yeah, the more I look at them, the less I like them.

The new helmets are a weird shape, much narrow visor, missing all the little details on the sides.

The overall proportions are a little scuffed. 

Yeah, we've always wanted all the Finecast / FW resin stuff in plastic, but the more I see (the Guard buggy, the Mandrakes, these Solar Aux), the more I'm convinced that current sculptors are simply not as skilled and/or talented as those before and they turnout "approximately correct" rubbish.

[Scribe]

Just now, Kastor Krieg said:

Yeah, we've always wanted all the Finecast / FW resin stuff in plastic, but the more I see (the Guard buggy, the Mandrakes, these Solar Aux), the more I'm convinced that current sculptors are simply not as skilled and/or talented as those before and they turnout "approximately correct" rubbish.

 

Yep. It hurts, but its true. There is stuff that on the path to plastic, for whatever reason, just fails to stand up to the metal/resin that came before.

[Kastor Krieg]

1 minute ago, Scribe said:

Yep. It hurts, but its true. There is stuff that on the path to plastic, for whatever reason, just fails to stand up to the metal/resin that came before.

I'd even wager that this gap in skill/talent is the reason why many of us hate / hated the Primaris sculpts. Especially where it's egregiously clear (e.g. new pattern Dreads being unwieldy, chonky potbellies) that the new stuff just doesn't line up to the old beloved models. 

[MoriyaSchism]

9 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

I'd even wager that this gap in skill/talent is the reason why many of us hate / hated the Primaris sculpts. Especially where it's egregiously clear (e.g. new pattern Dreads being unwieldy, chonky potbellies) that the new stuff just doesn't line up to the old beloved models. 

I'll defend the Redemptors because the extra plates over the sacrophagus are the cause of the potbelly problem and are easily removed. The real potbellies are the Aggressors. I generally dislike Gravis armour. I guess the Heavy Intercessors are passable but I dislike the unit concept.

[Taliesin]

Disappointed, was hoping for a book release to go with it, some lore at least. 

[Lord Marshal]

1 hour ago, Taliesin said:

Disappointed, was hoping for a book release to go with it, some lore at least. 

 

There probably will be, since they need to stick the rules for the Aethon and the weapon-platform-thingy somewhere. The bottom of the WarCom article is possibly implying that an announcement for one is coming.

 

Quote

"* Well, ALMOST all of the rules are in Liber Imperium. We’ll have details on where to get rules for the brand new Aethon Heavy Sentinel soon."

 

[OttoVonAwesome]

6 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

There probably will be, since they need to stick the rules for the Aethon and the weapon-platform-thingy somewhere. The bottom of the WarCom article is possibly implying that an announcement for one is coming.

 

 

More then just that, They are calling heavy flamers incinerators and Veletaris power axes are called Storm axes, I don't think they had minor command squads or power fists for tercio sargeants either then there's the light sentinel and mole mortar rapiers and whatever else they haven't shown. A hefty PDF file at the least.

[Lord Marshal]

17 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

More then just that, They are calling heavy flamers incinerators and Veletaris power axes are called Storm axes, I don't think they had minor command squads or power fists for tercio sargeants either then there's the light sentinel and mole mortar rapiers and whatever else they haven't shown. A hefty PDF file at the least.

 

For the record, Storm Axes are already a Veletarii option and Line Command Sections already exist. Sergeants have always had a Power Fist option. The 'Incinerators' thing I wouldn't be too shocked if the WarCom intern is having a moment, but who knows. 

 

Hopefully if a new book does drop, it comes with actual Solar Auxilia Warlord Traits. Still funny to me they never had their own in 2.0.

 

Edited January 19 by Lord Marshal

[Corswain]

Maybe it's the paint job but these just aren't grabbing me like the resins did.

 

Still pleased to see them and looking forward to seeing what people come up with now that they are more accessible. Expecting some awesome conversion work in the near future.

[Marshal Rohr]

3 hours ago, jaxom said:

 

 

There's so much we don't know about the third Solar Crusade and how the Jovian Enclaves were folded into the nascent Imperium. The Jovians infantry were classical marines, and their fleets provided the forces required for expanding out of the Sol system. Because there was no division between 'army' assets and 'navy' assets, it seems likely that what became known as the Solar Auxilia were the template because it was Jovian ships and their infantry doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

 

 

The Departmento Munitorum determines tithe grades for planets, what meets those grades, and what is "standard" for equipping an Astra Militarum regiment. Regiments can be tithed; a fully equipped regiment meets a higher tithe grade than a regiment of club-wielding feral worlders who technically still need to be issued flak jackets and lasguns. Similarly, equipment can be tithed, and often goes along with a manpower tithe from a nearby world. So long as the weapons and armor match standards set by the Departmeno Munitorum, they will meet tithe requirements. Many worlds just copy Cadian patterns because they're known to reliably meet Departmento standards (much like some armies will effectively copy equipment from other nations for local production). 

 

However, the Imperial Heartlands of the inner Segmentum Solar often have factories and traditions dating back thousands of years (@Doghouse and @Lord Marshal address this in their responses). While the Heresy and other wars led to the Heartlands not being able to supply galaxy-spanning armies, they can still provide Solar, Jovian, and Mars pattern equipment to local regiments and those favored by the Deparmento Munistorum. For example, Krieg is directly overseen by the Departmento for producing bodies and their armoured regiments are then supplied with Mars pattern tanks.

 

Another factor is form-and-function. Some regiments are specialized because of where they come from. Famous examples are the Tanith 1st-and-only, Elysian Drop Troopers, Catachan Jungle Fighters, and the Valhallans. We've always been told that regiments with similar specialties effectively use the same equipment; e.g. Armageddon Ork Fighters are armed like Catachans because they operate in the jungle unlike all the other Armageddon regiments. A place with a reason to develop void-speciality would end up equipped like the Solar Auxilia. Off the top of my head, imagine an asteroid field which ran out of metals a few thousand years back. Each former mining colony becomes a low-grav hellhole which produces regiments that excel at attacking magna-scale space architectures (Roks, Dyson Spheres/Rings, Craftworlds) that are too large for boarding parties, armed to create and exploit hard-vacuum.

 

 

We need to differentiate between the Jovians and the later Solar Auxilia coming from planets without fleet traditions and/or major naval assets. Planets effectively became a source for naval assets or a source for ground assets. The Jovian Enclaves became naval assets so their infantry assets were not rebuilt after the Heresy. A team of Jovian Navy Breachers would probably heavily resemble the Solar Auxilia, but they don't produce Astra Militarum regiments anymore. Other places, like Agathon became ground-assets. Their initial post-Heresy regiments probably resembled the Solar Auxilia, but it's up to individual headcanon how much they would continue to do so over 10,000 years.

 

 

Solar Auxilia are based on Saturnyne Void Hoplites. 

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Solar Auxilia are based on Saturnyne Void Hoplites. 

Yes, they were the Jovian marines I was referring to.

[Marshal Rohr]

Jovian mean from Jupiter. I think you are mixing up the Jovian Grenadiers with the Saturnyne Hoplites. The Jovians are more influential in the navy. 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

Nice stuff,really nice. And tempting. Headhunters of Cthonia in the way!

[OttoVonAwesome]

16 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

The resin ones were already on the taller side of models for the time, so I'd be surprised if they are. GW is generally a lot better about not scale creeping humans than Marines (Karskin aside).

Kasrkin and Necromunda enforcers are the same size. It was intentional I geuss they are all supposed to NBA players or something. These dudes look to all be about Krieg/Cadian/Orlock sized. I imagine the resin Solar Aux are about the same as the resin Krieg so I'm geussing it's more a change from standard scaling to heroic. They'll look smaller but really it's just proportions and maybe a mm of actual height difference. Wich is a little wierd cuase it really feels like they moved away from Heroic when designing the new marines themselves.

 

9 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

For the record, Storm Axes are already a Veletarii option and Line Command Sections already exist. Sergeants have always had a Power Fist option. The 'Incinerators' thing I wouldn't be too shocked if the WarCom intern is having a moment, but who knows. 

 

Hopefully if a new book does drop, it comes with actual Solar Auxilia Warlord Traits. Still funny to me they never had their own in 2.0.

 

Thanks. I wasn't sure as I don't have the book yet I was going mostly off the fact they didn't actually sell line command squads. The Storm Axes are actually really cool I didn't know they got bespoke rules either and they are actually good. The power fist I gotta chock that up to the kit not having one. This is a pretty gnarly release though all in all I'm def going to have to 1000 points of these guys to ally in. I miss being able to do that in 40k. I still got my fingers crossed the Saturnine terminator armour is coming for Solar Aux. 

Edited January 20 by OttoVonAwesome

[Zoatibix]

I’m slow on the uptake…but does this mean we could see plastic versions of the SA combat Ogryns? 

[jaxom]

8 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Jovian mean from Jupiter. I think you are mixing up the Jovian Grenadiers with the Saturnyne Hoplites. The Jovians are more influential in the navy. 

You're right. I was even specifically thinking of the "only after [they] joined voluntarily with the Imperium that the Great Crusade truly began, their fleets, shipyards, and void expertise fundamental to the speed and scale...." I guess the bit about fleets and shipyards made my dumb brain go straight to Jupiter.

[phandaal]

On 1/19/2024 at 3:54 PM, Kastor Krieg said:

I'd even wager that this gap in skill/talent is the reason why many of us hate / hated the Primaris sculpts. Especially where it's egregiously clear (e.g. new pattern Dreads being unwieldy, chonky potbellies) that the new stuff just doesn't line up to the old beloved models. 

 

There is still talent in the sculptors at GW. I would go as far as saying they are hard carrying the stupid decisions made by other people at the company by making models customers still want to buy.

 

However, there definitely does seem to be a "B" team that just does not get what made certain models look good or dynamic. Like the new Stormlord model with his backwards-flowing cloak (he should BRING the storm, not FACE the storm), sometimes you see these things and immediately something feels off.

 

@Cenobite Terminator Black Blow Fly, what did I say about reacting to my posts? You stay away from me, and I don't call out your sock puppet account. You know how this works!

 

Edited January 22 by phandaal

[Zoatibix]

Their good sculpts seem to turn up more in AoS, IMPO.

[TheMawr]

15 hours ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Yeah, we've always wanted all the Finecast / FW resin stuff in plastic, but the more I see (the Guard buggy, the Mandrakes, these Solar Aux), the more I'm convinced that current sculptors are simply not as skilled and/or talented as those before and they turnout "approximately correct" rubbish.

 

Calling something untalented/skilled just because they didnt cater to your private taste is more than a little bit unfair. Especially at the scale you seem to be doing it.  There are things, but only few things, that became objectively worse... but as I realise Im a human looking at things through a biased human lense I wouldnt try to point out wich, despite having some in my mind. But most things that became objectively or universally subjectively (there is a difference) worse in the transition also have very little to do with a lack of skill/talent.

 

Sometimes people also forget that an artist doesnt see the same thing the customer sees, especially when working weeks/months on something, this can result in things that make sense or look good to the artist, but not to fresh eyes. You know that effect how a miniature can grow on you when you keep looking at it ? its that effect, but in very extreme proportions. Its the job of the final art/creative director to spot errors there, it is not a sign of lack of talent or skill.

 

As how my remark relates to the topic of Solar auxilia, I think a choice/decision has been made to bring them in line with the rest, especially space marines. The old SA veletaris where in my opinion better in every way than these new ones... as long as you looked at them in a vacuum. SA where made in the relatively more realistic and detail focused "french boutique resin sculptor" style ( wich is the name of a folder on my pc, so probably not something people immediately realise what I mean.). HH Spacemarines are definitely not.

 

For me this transition worked for the main troops (and command), they are different, but not better or worse from a talent perspective. But when seeing the total picture.. mostly they fit better with the rest of the horus heresy than before. For the veletaris its different, yes I do agree they got worse ( I would even say objectively so, but that would destroy my first words ;)), but I dont agree it must be a skill/talent thing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Redcomet]

34 minutes ago, Zoatibix said:

Their good sculpts seem to turn up more in AoS, IMPO.

The AoS designers have a lot more freedom than the 40k ones, so no surprise they turn out more amazing kits.