The Castigators

[Heru]

So I've managed to get hold of the Codex once more and I have to report I'm deeply saddened by this snippet:

 

Black Consuls: "Recorded as annihilated at the Siege of Goddeth Hive, 455.M41. Current status unknown."

 

It's terrible for the Castigators, and definitely something that's going to have some impact.

 

A black day for the Chapter!

Dear Gods a 2nd Foundling has been wiped out... surely the the fact that the status is unknown leaves room for there to be survivors!

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, I figure the "current status unknown" and "reported as being wiped out" leave room for people to wiggle, but it's still very disheartening. I'm hoping the Consuls have survived - I'm hoping they tell us more about the Siege at some stage...

[Castigator]

Yes, I often get comments about those Castigators. As I understand, they're actually Emperor's Children legionnaires, but their warband is known by the nickname of 'The Castigators'. Much like there's a Raptors Space Marine chapter and the assault troops in Codex: Chaos are called Raptors.

 

Though my Castigators could totally kick their ass, obviously... B)

 

No they aren't an Emperors Children Warband, they're an Imperial Fists successor Chapter that have succumbed to Slaanesh.

Great work though....even if the name has already been taken :D

[Nash Trickster]

Black Consuls: "Recorded as annihilated at the Siege of Goddeth Hive, 455.M41. Current status unknown."

 

It's terrible for the Castigators, and definitely something that's going to have some impact.

 

A black day for the Chapter!

Well, I can see this having a different impact on the different factions...

 

For example, if Baraquiel was seen as somewhat of an "extremist" amongst the Black Consuls, which may have played a part in the decision to give him command of the Castigators (a way for the Consuls to "get rid" of an "annoying" brother), then the Zealots faction inside the Castigators could see this a "due punishment" for the Black Consuls' "laxist" ways... :)

[Commissar Molotov]

No they aren't an Emperors Children Warband, they're an Imperial Fists successor Chapter that have succumbed to Slaanesh.

 

Well, have fun with them, then. :D

 

 

Well, I can see this having a different impact on the different factions...

 

For example, if Baraquiel was seen as somewhat of an "extremist" amongst the Black Consuls, which may have played a part in the decision to give him command of the Castigators (a way for the Consuls to "get rid" of an "annoying" brother), then the Zealots faction inside the Castigators could see this a "due punishment" for the Black Consuls' "laxist" ways... ;)

 

The Consuls and the Castigators have (or I should say 'had', now...) a good relationship with each other. The Consuls were depicted as being 'zealous', even if that zealotry was channeled towads the Codex Astartes. Baraquiel was simply particularly pious and zealous.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Tyrannicide]

I noticed that the Daebilis War will need to be moved backwards on the Castigators timeline now, or tossed all together. Anyways the point of this post is actually about the Word Bearers and their relationship with the Castigators. I think it would be a good idea if we had a sense of some particular hosts the Castigators have faced, and do they have any particular grudges against a certain Dark Apostle? Now obviously the Chapter's hate for the traitor legion is on a broad scale, but there must be some personal bitterness between a certain Company or Captain and a Word Bearers Leader, right?

[Commissar Molotov]

I noticed that the Daebilis War will need to be moved backwards on the Castigators timeline now, or tossed all together. Anyways the point of this post is actually about the Word Bearers and their relationship with the Castigators. I think it would be a good idea if we had a sense of some particular hosts the Castigators have faced, and do they have any particular grudges against a certain Dark Apostle? Now obviously the Chapter's hate for the traitor legion is on a broad scale, but there must be some personal bitterness between a certain Company or Captain and a Word Bearers Leader, right?

 

Yes, the Daebilis War will need to be moved back prior to the apparent destruction of the Black Consuls. I think that Quintilius will have to dispatch a force to Goddeth Hive in order to ascertain what happened to the Black Consuls. I can imagine that being incredibly sad. Perhaps Escalus? I'd need to check when he became First Captain. Or perhaps Caphius, being the Old Guard. I can imagine that being an incredibly sad time for the Chapter. And yet part of me wonders what would happen to any of the Black Consuls' equipment that survives. If vehicles or armour could be salvaged, would the Castigators do it?

 

As for the Word Bearers, sure. The Castigators fought a heavy war against the Word Bearers in the Garret Insurrection (900.M41) and again at Maethax. And again during the War of Woe (though that had the Word Bearers supporting the Black Legion).

 

I've not really gotten round to naming any of them, but no doubt it'll happen eventually.

 

In other news. I've been intrigued by thoughts of long dead heroes of the Castigators Chapter, especially the Chapter Masters. You've noted three named commanders: Baraquiel, Septimus, and present Chapter Master Quintilius. I'm also fascinated with the old Librarians of the Chapter, the Marines with a psychic presence particularly. I find these times would be interesting to speculate about, considering the Chapter slowly absorbs the Loscanan beliefs and awaits the mutants deaths.

 

If I weren't stymied by a lack of knowledge about the Castigators' founding dates, I'd try to draw up a full timeline of the Castigators' Masters. I really need to name a few more, but I'll get there eventually. As to the last psychic Librarian, Darrell and I talked about it a long time ago. I imagine him being quite a melancholy, quiet character, fully aware what was happening to the Chapter, yet still serving as Baraquiel asked. Very poignant. Perhaps all the more so now that the Castigators have become something else entirely, and their sacrifice is not given due deference.

[Tyrannicide]

Yes, the Daebilis War will need to be moved back prior to the apparent destruction of the Black Consuls. I think that Quintilius will have to dispatch a force to Goddeth Hive in order to ascertain what happened to the Black Consuls. I can imagine that being incredibly sad. Perhaps Escalus? I'd need to check when he became First Captain. Or perhaps Caphius, being the Old Guard. I can imagine that being an incredibly sad time for the Chapter. And yet part of me wonders what would happen to any of the Black Consuls' equipment that survives. If vehicles or armour could be salvaged, would the Castigators do it?

 

I would like to discern what happened in these dire times, perhaps Caphius leads a demi-company and is accompanied by a staff of aiding Apothecaries and Techamarines?

[Commissar Molotov]

My life would be made a million times easier if only I knew who the Consuls fought at Goddeth Hive. Logically, based on the date, it can't be Tyranids, Tau or Necrons, leaving me with Orks or Chaos.I also don't know if the Consuls were trying to break the siege, or were besieged. Given how Space Marine Chapters depend on mobility, I can see that being besieged might be a horribly unfortunate situation for them - but Chapters typically would have orbital support, etc, etc.

 

What on earth happened to the Black Consuls? :P

 

Given that the Consuls are reported destroyed in 455, and then the Ultramarines suffer horrendous casualties against Behemoth in 745, it's easy to see how the 41st Millennium is the 'Dark Millennium'. Ironic given that at 000.M41, the Imperium thought it was about to enter a golden age - Macharius brought so much but then his life was cut short... another of the innumerable tragedies that litter the universe of the grimdark.

 

I also realised that if it's 455, Caphius wouldn't even be a Captain. It would be the Chapter Master before Quintilius, the one that died in 900.M41 - or perhaps even the one before him.

[Tyrannicide]

I hadn't even thought of the Caphius side of the situation, well look at this as an opportunity to flesh out another Castigator Captain!

[Ferrus Manus]

My life would be made a million times easier if only I knew who the Consuls fought at Goddeth Hive. Logically, based on the date, it can't be Tyranids, Tau or Necrons, leaving me with Orks or Chaos

Or Eldar, much less likely. But its possible. Its a real shame we have so little info on the incident.

If vehicles or armour could be salvaged, would the Castigators do it?

Reminds me of the passage in Horus Rising, when Loken clears out Jubals kit. Its on a much smaller scale but relevant. The idea that ones close brother's sort out the possessions of a dead ally. It could work here. But then it could go the other way. With the Castigators wanting to leave their remains exactly as they were to preserve them as almost a shrine type of thing.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Ferrus Manus

[Marshal Rohr]

A short piece of fluff describing the Castigators arriving too late (no insult intended, but the warp is fickle) or coming up on the burning Hive and seeing the bodies of the Black Consuls (imagine the column of Rhinos cresting a ridgeline to see the burntout hive, crashed Thunderhawks and maybe even a Strike Cruiser. It would be epic. Maybe coming across a few survivors, a chapter doesn't need to be 100% destroyed to be wiped out. If something small like 50 to 75 marines/scout/terminators made it out alive to continue on/assimilate into the Castigators.

 

Don't think of this as disheartening think of it as the perfect opportunity to add even more depth into your incredible Chapter. The crushing feeling as the armor and arms of the Consuls are recovered. Like a child burying a parent; it would be incredibly sad and sombre. Emotions like love, sadness, and respect all mixed in together.

[Commissar Molotov]

A short piece of fluff describing the Castigators arriving too late (no insult intended, but the warp is fickle) or coming up on the burning Hive and seeing the bodies of the Black Consuls (imagine the column of Rhinos cresting a ridgeline to see the burntout hive, crashed Thunderhawks and maybe even a Strike Cruiser. It would be epic. Maybe coming across a few survivors, a chapter doesn't need to be 100% destroyed to be wiped out. If something small like 50 to 75 marines/scout/terminators made it out alive to continue on/assimilate into the Castigators.

 

Don't think of this as disheartening think of it as the perfect opportunity to add even more depth into your incredible Chapter. The crushing feeling as the armor and arms of the Consuls are recovered. Like a child burying a parent; it would be incredibly sad and sombre. Emotions like love, sadness, and respect all mixed in together.

 

The idea of the Castigators 'arriving late' suggests that they knew the Consuls were in trouble. My interpretation of 'The Consuls are reported as destroyed - current status unknown' is that what happened at Goddeth Hive is cloudy and uncertain. So I think the Castigators receiving reports of the Consuls' destruction and dispatching an expeditiion to find out is fair. I don't want to focus the Chapter around the Consuls, nor do I want a repeat of the Remembrance Crusade, but I do think it's fitting to pay tribute to their parent Chapter. I'm curious as to whether they would try to refurbish and restore some of the Consuls' wargear. (Good points, Ferrus, by the way.)

 

The thing is, because I don't know what happened at Goddeth Hive, I can't write much about it. I'm trying to dance around the information GW's given us without writing anything that could just be ret-conned out. If the Consuls have survived somewhere and are severely depleted in numbers, it's entirely possible they would've left a lot of their wrecked equipment behind. Unless Goddeth was destroyed (who knows? Perhaps we'll receive follow-up information in a White Dwarf?) then it's possible the Castigators would've found the wreckage when they visited Goddeth Hive.

 

(imagine the column of Rhinos cresting a ridgeline to see the burntout hive, crashed Thunderhawks and maybe even a Strike Cruiser. It would be epic.)

 

That it would! I'll have to see if I can get someone to draw it up for me. :P

[Race Bannon]

The thing is, because I don't know what happened at Goddeth Hive, I can't write much about it. I'm trying to dance around the information GW's given us without writing anything that could just be ret-conned out. If the Consuls have survived somewhere and are severely depleted in numbers, it's entirely possible they would've left a lot of their wrecked equipment behind. Unless Goddeth was destroyed (who knows? Perhaps we'll receive follow-up information in a White Dwarf?) then it's possible the Castigators would've found the wreckage when they visited Goddeth Hive.

 

Hmm, I disagree. GW has given a very small and ambigiuous plot device. Given that GW has also given us not-much-else on the Black Consuls I'm inclinded to believe - rather safely - that this is all we will see. Therefore, you are safe to use this little gem and run with it freely. I think it is an amazing coincidence that the global work you have put into your Chapter story hit a speed bump like this from GW.

[Commissar Molotov]

It's only a speed bump because I'm making it into one. At least the Consuls were destroyed in M41 and not so early that it would've compromised the history of the Chapter. (Though in that case I would've (regretfully) changed the Chapter Baraquiel came from.)

 

I'm waiting to see if the White Dwarves that come out around the Marine Codex mention anything further on the Consuls. If not, I'll certainly feel happier about writing more into it.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Marshal Rohr]

The idea of the Castigators 'arriving late' suggests that they knew the Consuls were in trouble. My interpretation of 'The Consuls are reported as destroyed - current status unknown' is that what happened at Goddeth Hive is cloudy and uncertain. So I think the Castigators receiving reports of the Consuls' destruction and dispatching an expeditiion to find out is fair. I don't want to focus the Chapter around the Consuls, nor do I want a repeat of the Remembrance Crusade, but I do think it's fitting to pay tribute to their parent Chapter. I'm curious as to whether they would try to refurbish and restore some of the Consuls' wargear. (Good points, Ferrus, by the way.)

 

The thing is, because I don't know what happened at Goddeth Hive, I can't write much about it. I'm trying to dance around the information GW's given us without writing anything that could just be ret-conned out. If the Consuls have survived somewhere and are severely depleted in numbers, it's entirely possible they would've left a lot of their wrecked equipment behind. Unless Goddeth was destroyed (who knows? Perhaps we'll receive follow-up information in a White Dwarf?) then it's possible the Castigators would've found the wreckage when they visited Goddeth Hive.

 

Thats a good point, perhaps a simple line in your Index Astartes along the lines of:

 

"The Tragedy that befell the Black Consuls at Goddeth Hive remains as a staunch example of holding the line to the last man and the Castigators seek to uphold the standard of "death before dishonor" in remembrance of their parent Chapter."

 

This would allow for the interpretation that the Castigators know what happened even though we don't. I know you used Death before Dishonor in another passage in your IA but I am a fairly unimaginative writer so forgive me.

 

On the topic of the Castigators recovering the vehicles of the Black Consuls, I would ask has there ever been a precedent? Should a precedent be set either by going back and creating one or having this set the new precedent. I would think the character of the Chapter may consider it dishonorable, but I dont think that they would leave a rhino that has only been immobilized behind. It could be a great boost to the Chapter strength. Perhaps the recovered vehicles had some part of their Consul Iconography left intact to serve as a memorial or monument to their sacrifice.

 

I believe that you could easily work this into a side story that would flesh out the history of the chapter and allow for some really good "character" development.

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm not sure that this'll be part of the IA article - I was thinking more for the timeline and the website than anything else. And I also think that the equipment would still have some legacy of the Consuls' iconography. It certainly bears thinking about.

[Heru]

On the topic of the Castigators recovering the vehicles of the Black Consuls, I would ask has there ever been a precedent? Should a precedent be set either by going back and creating one or having this set the new precedent. I would think the character of the Chapter may consider it dishonorable, but I dont think that they would leave a rhino that has only been immobilized behind. It could be a great boost to the Chapter strength. Perhaps the recovered vehicles had some part of their Consul Iconography left intact to serve as a memorial or monument to their sacrifice.

The Adeptus Astartes do it all the time, in the 41st Millennium equipment is rare and many things you'll see are salvaged from less fortunate Chapters (whether annihilated or disbanded). For example Terminator Armour, Dreadnought Sarcophagi and Land Raiders are extremely rare and chances are many of those in function today under the control of younger Chapters have been salvaged from the dead.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Heru Talon

[Marshal Rohr]

Ok, well then I say they would have recovered the vehicles and equipment of the Black Consuls.

[Commissar Molotov]

See, I'm not after the Castigators suddenly getting two Chapters' worth of equipment. I'm more after paying tribute to their parent Chapter by allowing them to contiue fighting the Emperor's foes vicariously.

[Marshal Rohr]

See, I'm not after the Castigators suddenly getting two Chapters' worth of equipment. I'm more after paying tribute to their parent Chapter by allowing them to contiue fighting the Emperor's foes vicariously.

 

That is a good idea. Im a big fan of tradition and handing down of personal treasure. So even if it was only a few suits of armor and Land Raiders so on and so forth, I think it adds something to the Castigators we havn't seen before. It would work well if upon the recovery of the Consuls equipment the Chapter takes a more sombre mindset that gives them the fortitude to become even more unmovable at the height of battle, not reckless attack but the kind of cold furious drive you get when you absolutely want to make your enemy suffer.

 

 

Alright Commissar wanted me to post a conversation we had via PM so here is my questions and his answers (his answers are in quotes):

 

 

What Company would you prefer I build? I honestly want you to tell me which one you would like to see represented alongside the other members who are building Castigators forces. This is all you, I want to build what you want to see. I honestly believe you have put too much effort and love into this great army to not see more than 1 or 2 companies represented.

 

...but then think how many people are playing the Second Company of the Ultramarines simultaneously (or the third, or the fourth...) - would you be opposed to doing a Castigator Company someone else is doing? There are only four Battle-Companies, after all. I would suggest either Second or Third, personally, though.

 

 

Do you have problem with me using one of the Special Characters in the new codex to represent my company Captain? I have a warm spot in my heart for the new Sicarius rules...

 

I'm considering using Sicarius for my Captain, Anteas. So no, I don't - as long as you don't get silly and use someone like Calgar!

 

No Calgar!!! Just kidding, I wouldn't do anything like that, trust me. I like Captain Sirius, the gruff and imposing sounds a little like me . Would Sirius hold/push his unit to higher standards than the rest of his Chapter? Would the Third Company have a higher proportion of older suits of armor (an excuse to use the Forge World Mark IV's)? I like the Third Company a great deal, but I cant think of how I could represent him in the rules. Just some of the positives and negatives I have been thinking that would justify using one character or the other.

 

Vulkan He'stan could work but the Flame weapons wouldn't fit in with what you have described Sirius as preferring. Shrike and Lysander are right out the window. Sicarius would be cool just for his rules, but I dont want to step on your toes in any way shape or form. Which brings me to this idea:

 

 

Captain Sirius would be a standard Captain with the following Wargear:

Power Sword

Auxilary Grenade Launcher

Plasma Pistol

Digital Weapons

Bolt Pistol

 

 

Would this be too expensive to be tactically viable in 2000 point games? Would this be an adequate representation of the 3rd Company Captain? It sounds like they like plasma weaponry so I thought I couldn't go far wrong with a plasma pistol. Are Digital Weapons AND an Auxillary Grenade Launcher too much, should I use one or the other? Please tell me how you envisioned Captain Sirius.

 

In smaller games of 1500 points or less I think I'll stick to using a Captain with a power sword and Bolter with Hellfire rounds.

 

On the field of battle, he commands heavy batteries of plasma fire with deft skill

 

 

Does this mean that the Third has uses large amounts of plasma weaponry? If so I am think at least one if not both Devastator Squads will be all Plasma Cannon armed.

 

 

 

If I include the Black Reach Terminators is that Ok? I know the limited number of suits makes it hard to spread them out amongst multiple companies.

 

The Castigators only have twenty-one suits of TDA - so arguably you could have a squad of five with each Battle-Company. In that sense, there are no problems with you using the Terminators.

 

Is there specific Heraldry for the Terminators Chapter badges other than the Chapter symbol? Could I attempt to personalize the Symbol on each shoulder? Not by altering it but by imposing it on different images and backgrounds. Would Heresy Style shoulder pads be acceptable for the Sergeants along with Crusade Style Terminator helmets?

 

 

 

Some other points I wanted to ask about:

• Company Identification? How do they do it, shoulderpads, kness??
  
• Vehicles attached tot he Third Company?
  
• Have the Castigators ever worked with the Black Templars? I also play Black Templars and I wonder if their similar ideologies have ever lead them to the same warzone?
  

 

 

++EDIT++

What Battle Company has yet to be represented in Plastic? I am interested in doing a Company no one else has done, or if failing that the least done of the four.

Edited September 12, 2008 by Marshal2 Crusaders

[Commissar Molotov]

I like Captain Sirius, the gruff and imposing sounds a little like me . Would Sirius hold/push his unit to higher standards than the rest of his Chapter? Would the Third Company have a higher proportion of older suits of armor (an excuse to use the Forge World Mark IV's)? I like the Third Company a great deal, but I cant think of how I could represent him in the rules. Just some of the positives and negatives I have been thinking that would justify using one character or the other.

 

Sirius is an interesting Character. Darth Potato and I worked to create him - I know Darth has had a resurgent interesting in the Castigators as of late, and will likely be making his own Sirius. You'll have to wait until he comes along to discuss his ideas. But Sirius is interesting to my mind because he shows a Castigator that has mellowed as he's grown older - become slightly more pragmatic. Whilst Caphius is as bellicose as he ever was, Sirius was once a Zealot and whilst he remains conservative, he's moderated his views somewhat as he's grown older.

 

Would the Third have a higher proportion of older suits? No, I don't think so. As Master of the Arsenal, Sirius would be able to requisition some of the wargear and equipment, but I don't think that would extend to his Company.

 

Vulkan He'stan could work but the Flame weapons wouldn't fit in with what you have described Sirius as preferring. Shrike and Lysander are right out the window. Sicarius would be cool just for his rules, but I dont want to step on your toes in any way shape or form. Which brings me to this idea:

 

 

Captain Sirius would be a standard Captain with the following Wargear:

Power Sword

Auxilary Grenade Launcher

Plasma Pistol

Digital Weapons

Bolt Pistol

 

Well, Darth has mentioned to me that Sirius uses a sword named Lux Videbis, which means "You will see the light." With Sirius I tried to work in the idea of the 'starburst = death' angle, reflecting the sheer power of the sun and the dichotomy between light and dark on the Chapter's homeworld. Fittingly, there's even a star named Sirius, which is the brightest star in our sky.

 

 

On the field of battle, he commands heavy batteries of plasma fire with deft skill

 

 

Does this mean that the Third has uses large amounts of plasma weaponry? If so I am think at least one if not both Devastator Squads will be all Plasma Cannon armed.

 

It could well do. I imagine Devastators with Plasma Cannons could prove useful. I think that's just Sirius's taste, though. I wouldn't want them to have a plasma fetish of Dark Angels extremes.

 

 

 

Is there specific Heraldry for the Terminators Chapter badges other than the Chapter symbol? Could I attempt to personalize the Symbol on each shoulder? Not by altering it but by imposing it on different images and backgrounds. Would Heresy Style shoulder pads be acceptable for the Sergeants along with Crusade Style Terminator helmets?

 

I'd say no to the Heresy-era armour. This is from my forthcoming 'Insignium Castigator':

 

There are almost no limits to the degree in which the Castigators' veterans may customise their weaponry and armour. Many choose to display their own heraldry and distinctions. No two warriors of the First Company truly look alike. Battle honours, sigils and citations adorn armour, and armour-plates are often decorated with bold patterns and symbols derived from the chapter insignia.

 

• Company Identification? How do they do it, shoulderpads, kness??
  
• Vehicles attached tot he Third Company?
  

 

Company Identification is on the(ir) left kneepad, using this system:

 

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5741/companieswy8.jpg

 

Though often Veterans will go without it, as they wear different colours and so it's easy to tell that they're First Company, whilst Scouts use the badge only for ceremonial occasions. The Castigators have it in red and white, rather than blue and white.

 

Vehicles are attached on an as-needed basis, though typically there'll be Rhinos enough to carry the whole Company, along with a Command Vehicle (sometimes a Razorback). Dreadnoughts would be attached, perhaps two at the most. Fighting vehicles like Predators, Whirlwinds and Vindicators are assigned by the Master of the Forge as-and-when they're required. They would display the markings of the Company they're temporarily seconded to.

 

 

What Battle Company has yet to be represented in Plastic? I am interested in doing a Company no one else has done, or if failing that the least done of the four.

 

Well, I'm doing the Fifth - Fabricator-General is doing the Fourth, along with Imperial Knight. Brother Varen and The-Exorcists have expressed interest in the Second (though I've nothing to show for it) and Darth Potato is doing the Third.

 

Now, there is something interesting you said which made me think:

 

[*]Have the Castigators ever worked with the Black Templars? I also play Black Templars and I wonder if their similar ideologies have ever lead them to the same warzone?

 

To my mind, no, the Templars and the Castigators have never fought together. If you're a Templars player, I'd be interested in your analysis as to the similarities and differences between the Castigators and the Templars - what you think sets them apart. It's something that would prove useful to me, as I'm conscious that I share certain similarities with them.

[Marshal Rohr]

[*]Have the Castigators ever worked with the Black Templars? I also play Black Templars and I wonder if their similar ideologies have ever lead them to the same warzone?

 

To my mind, no, the Templars and the Castigators have never fought together. If you're a Templars player, I'd be interested in your analysis as to the similarities and differences between the Castigators and the Templars - what you think sets them apart. It's something that would prove useful to me, as I'm conscious that I share certain similarities with them.

 

The biggest thing that separates the Black Templars and Castigators from the rest of the Space Marine Chapters is their devotion and faith. They both hate aliens, heretics, and mutants tot he extreme refusing to fight alongside abhumans, psykers, and alien mercenaries, and I would say they may even take action against the Human forces sided with them. The two Chapters if fighting in concert would build upon each other because of their faith. They are both heavily prayer based, more so than other Chapters spending much time in reflections on their duties in the eyes of the Emperor before battle. The Black Templars and Castigators have fiery personalities, and wish to take the fight to the enemy.

 

However, as much as they are alike they are even more different. The Castigators are noble defenders of humanity, sacrificing themselves to protect the Emperor's realm. The Black Templars only desire to destroy the wicked in battle, they arn't as focused on the battle against the "darkness". The Black Templars are more reckless than the Castigators, it seems like the Castigators fury is tempered by the knowledge that if they rush then lives will be lost needlessly. In battle the Black Templars are solely focused on meeting their enemies in combat and vanquishing the enemy, their losses on spur them on.

 

Although the have differences I still think they would get along better than most Chapters, as far as the Templars are concerned I know they would appreciate the Castigators ability to get the job done no matter what.

 

 

If my Templar Brethren will permit, the Black Templars are more than willing to go one step farther than their enemy in the same manner that the World Eaters did, but without the bloodlust.

[Commissar Molotov]

Interesting comparison. From reading that it would seem the differences between the two can be quite subtle. I suppose htey're both heading in a similar direction, from different starting points. The point about recklessness is a good one, though.I imagine the moderates would approve of the Templars, though would perhaps find them a bit reckless, whilst the most hardcore of zealots might find it intensely amusing that the Templars' DNA is degraded.

 

Thank you for the insight, Marshal. I don't see why the Castigators couldn't fight alongside the Templars - only that as far as I'm concerned they haven't done so yet canonically. That shouldn't stop you from using them alongside your Templars! <_<

[Marshal Rohr]

Interesting comparison. From reading that it would seem the differences between the two can be quite subtle. I suppose htey're both heading in a similar direction, from different starting points. The point about recklessness is a good one, though.I imagine the moderates would approve of the Templars, though would perhaps find them a bit reckless, whilst the most hardcore of zealots might find it intensely amusing that the Templars' DNA is degraded.

 

Thank you for the insight, Marshal. I don't see why the Castigators couldn't fight alongside the Templars - only that as far as I'm concerned they haven't done so yet canonically. That shouldn't stop you from using them alongside your Templars! :yes:

 

I would be interested to see what you and Darth Potato think Captain Sirius' response to fighting alongside Templars would be. On this subject what about other Chapters of Legend the Castigators have fought alongside? Do they usually participate in multi-chapter missions or do they prefer to fight only with other Castigators?

 

 

Also on the topic of Caphius not being a Captain around the time of the Siege of Goddeth, maybe he was a newly inducted scout and his first mission was attached to the force that was sent to discover the fate of the Consuls. Or when he was a scout his sergeant told him the story of his first mission were he accompanied the Castigators as they came upon the burnt out wreckage of their parent Chapter's equipment and it the story/experience shook Caphius to the core and is the root of his Zealotry.

 

Im sorry I'm so stuck on the subject, but the new codex has thrown a wrench in alot of fluff.

 

I like the Starburst=death idea, it works. The Sword has a cool name too, I love it. On the Company banner what does the Starburst look like?