The Castigators

[brother varen]

When a Castigator company is sent out from the homeworld, is there a "standard" organization that goes, beside the company formation? For example; scout squads, techmarines, terminators, veterans(power armour), Dreanoughts, and vehicles.

 

I like and vote for "The Howling Stars", it just gives that feeling of a hard to survive life style. Just what i believe that you want for the Castigators. It would also impart that zealous attitude of the Castigators. (Darkness behind every corner feel) ;)

 

Does Caphius have a normal battle formation or does he perfer to cover every possible approach to what war will bring? Any new information on the 2nd Company chaplain from Arion yet?

 

With the Castigator's believe in purity, has this changed any asspect to the chapter's Apothecaries? Meaning, will a company include more than one, or are the sargents trained to collect gene-seed from the fallen. I just mean that i find it hard to see a chapter like the Castigators, who are very purity minded, to leave it with one man (Apothecary) with no back up in case he goes down. I can't see Captain Caphius doing this unless he has a honor guard to ensure the Apothecary's safety. Maybe this honor guard could be trained somewhat in the art of retreiving gene-seed? Just a thought.

 

To represent in models:

 

1.) In the command squad, what type of marines would there be? I know the Castigators don't have a company champion.

 

2.) Would a company chaplain have an honor guard escort?

 

 

I would like to represent the 2nd company as you see them. Also what is the formula that everyone is using to paint the castigators? How is your company coming? Haven't seen to much in the "two companies" article.

[Commissar Molotov]

When a Castigator company is sent out from the homeworld, is there a "standard" organization that goes, beside the company formation? For example; scout squads, techmarines, terminators, veterans(power armour), Dreanoughts, and vehicles.

 

Well, let's see. Ordinarily any undertaking by the Castigators will focus around a Battle-Company with attached support. Smaller engagements might only warrant a demi-Company, which may be led by a Captain or a Senior Sergeant with the aid of a Chaplain. Though it's important to note that the Chaplains don't actually command, they do have a great deal of influence within the Chapter. Especially so within the Second Company.

 

Then additional units would be attached. This would include vehicles from the armoury along with additional Marines from the Reserve, Scout and Veteran Companies. The First Company would typically not fight as a single unit, instead being distributed where required (this is especially true for the Terminators.) Dreadnoughts are assigned to specific Companies (unlike vehicles such as Predators) and will accordingly accompany their Brothers.

 

 

I like and vote for "The Howling Stars", it just gives that feeling of a hard to survive life style. Just what i believe that you want for the Castigators. It would also impart that zealous attitude of the Castigators. (Darkness behind every corner feel) :(

 

I'm glad you like it. It's definitely grown on me.

 

Does Caphius have a normal battle formation or does he perfer to cover every possible approach to what war will bring? Any new information on the 2nd Company chaplain from Arion yet?

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. If you mean typical tactics, I've not detailed Caphius enough to know. You guys that have adopted the Captains are allowed to have some input! ;) I'd forgotten about Nicodemus - I'll ask Aerion what's going on with him.

 

With the Castigator's believe in purity, has this changed any asspect to the chapter's Apothecaries? Meaning, will a company include more than one, or are the sargents trained to collect gene-seed from the fallen. I just mean that i find it hard to see a chapter like the Castigators, who are very purity minded, to leave it with one man (Apothecary) with no back up in case he goes down. I can't see Captain Caphius doing this unless he has a honor guard to ensure the Apothecary's safety. Maybe this honor guard could be trained somewhat in the art of retreiving gene-seed? Just a thought.

 

Well, the job of the Apothecary is certainly more strenuous. I've said in the past that the 10th Company has three Apothecaries assigned to it, whilst the others just have one. If you read Brothers of the Snake I'm pretty sure at one point Priad secures the geneseed from one of his Brothers. That may not be the case. I don't think Sergeants would be Apothecaries (like with the Purity Above All trait) but perhaps they might be trained in rudimentary extraction techniques in case of emergency.

 

Honour Guard would likely not be attached to Chaplains or Apothecaries (and if you look in the new Codex, you can only take Honour Guard alongside the Chapter Master.)

 

 

To represent in models:

 

1.) In the command squad, what type of marines would there be? I know the Castigators don't have a company champion.

 

A Company Standard Bearer, an Apothecary, a Sergeant, a Marine with a special weapon (in all likelihood) and probably the Librarian attached to the Company.

 

 

 

I would like to represent the 2nd company as you see them. Also what is the formula that everyone is using to paint the castigators? How is your company coming? Haven't seen to much in the "two companies" article.

 

You can read Fabricator-General's recipe here. My Castigators have been slowed by university and the fact that I've just not been able to get a good red. I'm working on fluff at the moment, and then I'm going to try to work on the red again. I might have to buy some paints from Vallejo to see if they work any better.

[Marshal Rohr]

Commissar,

 

Try:

Mechrite Red

Mechrite Red: Blood Red 1:1

Blood Red:Water 1:3

Devlan Mud:Water 1:3

 

 

It blends it nicely and gives the crevices a nice deep shade as well as blending the Blood Red into the other highlights.

 

Ok I need to go back and redo the helmet and pauldron rims.....

Edited September 17, 2008 by Marshal2 Crusaders

[Commissar Molotov]

Do we get to see any photographs? ;)

[Marshal Rohr]

My camera is in Hawaii. So as soon as I can get one working I swear Ill post them. Although I do have some touch ups.

[brother varen]

If i remember correctly each squad contained a Apothecary in the book "Brothers of the snake". Would Marshal2crusaders reciepe be right? What have you tried? What has Darth used for his reciepe of red?

 

I haven't seen the new codex yet, so i have no idea on the changes made. I do plan on getting it when it comes out though. have you decided on what Caphius's heraldry will be?

 

Have the Black Consuls been wiped out? If so, are you going to have the Castigators search for surviors or salvaged their equipment? I could see in a final act of honor to salvage what they could of the Black Consuls equipment in order for them to carry on the emperor's will in spirit. That way the Black Consuls will never truely be wiped out. But i don't see Caphius even going near their equipment due to the fact, that they weren't strong enough to carry on the Emperor's will. Though the Castigator techmarines and Master of the Forge might see this differently due to the machines spirits. Save or mercy killing to save the machines spirits. Intresting game scenerio, maybe.

 

I have been intrested in the wreath of thorns. Trying to figure out how to incorprate it into the company. Have you an idea for the thorn pattern? What strike cruiser is the 2nd Company's?

How is the Castigator website progressing? Been eagerly awaiting it to open.

[Commissar Molotov]

If i remember correctly each squad contained a Apothecary in the book "Brothers of the snake".

 

Indeed, but I thought it happened in one of the short stories where the Apothecary had died.

 

Would Marshal2crusaders reciepe be right? What have you tried? What has Darth used for his reciepe of red?

 

I think the thing to remember is that it's quite a dark red. My two attempts have been straight red gore (pre-Foundation) and Mechrite followed by Red Gore. I'm considering Crimson Gore (the Vallejo colour) because that's what Fab-Gen used. I think as long as it's relatively dark (darker than blood red, at least) you can get away with it.

 

I haven't seen the new codex yet, so i have no idea on the changes made. I do plan on getting it when it comes out though. have you decided on what Caphius's heraldry will be?

 

I have the new Codex - it's very interesting. I've considered suggesting Pedro Kantor as Captain Caphius - he has a Power Fist and a Storm Bolter - he also makes his squad stubborn, which seems quite consistent with Caphius. He also makes Sternguard Veterans scoring units, but that could represent attached First Company elements operating alongside the Second.

 

I always intended Caphius's heraldry to be a two-headed eagle tearing a snake in half. Something akin to these. Then again, that might just be the Second Company's standard, allowing him to have something else. I'm not set in stone there. I did think that perhaps his heraldry might reflect upon Lycidius somewhat.

 

Have the Black Consuls been wiped out? If so, are you going to have the Castigators search for surviors or salvaged their equipment? I could see in a final act of honor to salvage what they could of the Black Consuls equipment in order for them to carry on the emperor's will in spirit. That way the Black Consuls will never truely be wiped out. But i don't see Caphius even going near their equipment due to the fact, that they weren't strong enough to carry on the Emperor's will. Though the Castigator techmarines and Master of the Forge might see this differently due to the machines spirits. Save or mercy killing to save the machines spirits. Intresting game scenerio, maybe.

 

The Consuls have been "reported as being wiped out 455.M41" but the Codex goes on to say "Current status unknown." I believe that's to give wiggle room for Black Consuls players. I do think that the Castigators would salvage what they could, but your ideas fall into line with those presented by Nash Trickster - that some of the hardliners might think the Consuls got what they deserved.

 

I have been intrested in the wreath of thorns. Trying to figure out how to incorprate it into the company. Have you an idea for the thorn pattern? What strike cruiser is the 2nd Company's?

How is the Castigator website progressing? Been eagerly awaiting it to open.

 

The Inviolate is the Cruiser traditionally used by Second Company - even as far back as when Lycidius commanded. As to the wreath, it doesn't need to be a common thing - it's meant to be an honour akin to the laurel wreath in the Ultramarines.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Tyrannicide]

Would Marshal2crusaders reciepe be right? What have you tried? What has Darth used for his reciepe of red?

 

I haven't painted any Castigators for over three months now, but if I recall correctly, I used something along these lines:

 

Chaos Black undercoat -> Two thin coats of Mechrite Red -> Red Gore highlights -> Baal Red wash

 

I plan to create a force of 1000 points of Castigators led by Captain Sirius around the new year. Hopefully I can at least get the army built by then. All the models will be new, and the conversions will be aplenty.

[Marshal Rohr]

Im taking a break from my Templars to work on the Castigators, at first Itll be a demi-company with 1st and 10th support but I wont finish the whole army until much later.

[Ferrus Manus]

I haven't painted any Castigators for over three months now, but if I recall correctly, I used something along these lines:

 

Chaos Black undercoat -> Two thin coats of Mechrite Red -> Red Gore highlights -> Baal Red wash

 

Thats what I use, except I highlight the red gore with a 50/50 Blazing Orange/Red Gore highlight.

[Swordlord]

Vallejo Model Colours has the wonderful hues Cadmium Umber Red (#814) and Black-Red (#859) that I often use for techmarines. It's quite nice over Mechrite Red, washed with a 2:1 mix of red:black from the new GW washes. Very dark, but still red. Edited September 18, 2008 by Swordlord

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, this is the "proper" red for the Castigators. Are the colours you mention roughly equivalent?

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Vocates/Castigators.gif

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/CastigatorsVeteran.gif

[Swordlord]

No. The colors I mentioned would be too dark for you, if the above is color-correct.

[Commissar Molotov]

No. The colors I mentioned would be too dark for you, if the above is color-correct.

 

That's a shame. :huh:

 

Working on the Honour Guard, I've been giving them some thought. They traditionally serve as the Chapter Master's retinue, providing a defence of both the Master and the Crimson Standard, the Chapter's banner. It was after the betrayal of the Reapers (633.M38) that Chapter Master Trythus restructured the Honour Guard, ensuring that they would serve as a Sword of Damocles, ready to execute the Master of the Chapter should he show any sign of Chaos corruption. I had the thought that the Seneschal would have a sword that would be used to decapitate the Master - though it's never been used. (Alternatively, he has a sword which would be used on the Chapter Master, but he also uses it in battle, reminding the Chapter Master of the potent consequences of falling to Chaos.) I did consider that potentially the Senschal could be a position created by Trythus. Also, Codex-wise, the rules for the Chapter Champion represent the Seneschal well.

 

My thoughts on the Crimson Standard are that Chapter tradition dictates that whoever the Ancient hands it to becomes the new Master. Normally this would be another Honour Guard (as in the case when Constantine passed it to Rhetoricus), but it would have amusing consequences if the Ancient were to pass it to a scout. Of course, it would be a terrible situation if none of the Honour Guard were around to take the standard from the Ancient. Still, the idea certainly amuses me.

[brother varen]

Mol, have you tried the paints from Privateer press? They seem to be darker. They have Sanguine base, skorne red, khador red base, khador red highlight, and sanguine highlight. I don't know if it is right.

 

so are you thinking to include a chapter champion? There is still no company champions, correct? What are you thinking about the new Master of the Forge character in the new Codex? How far off is the Castigator website?

[Marshal Rohr]

For all who are interested Mechrite washed with Devlan Mud is perfect.

[Tyrannicide]

I'm curious Mol, how many Castigators make up the Honour Guard? I'm sure it varies slightly but do you have a quick estimation? Also after just finishing up with the extract from the Black Library on the Assault on Black Reach, do you plan on giving all the squads in a Company a nickname? For example the Tactical Squad lead by Sergeant Scipio has the title the 'Thunderbolts'. It could add some more character to inner-company situations.

[Commissar Molotov]

Mol, have you tried the paints from Privateer press? They seem to be darker. They have Sanguine base, skorne red, khador red base, khador red highlight, and sanguine highlight. I don't know if it is right.

 

I haven't, no. I'm trying not to buy every red ever to use as a test. :)

 

so are you thinking to include a chapter champion? There is still no company champions, correct? What are you thinking about the new Master of the Forge character in the new Codex? How far off is the Castigator website?

 

What I mean to say is that the Seneschal, as the leader of the Honour Guard, could be used in the new Codex as a Chapter Champion. The Chapter Champion has specific rules in the Codex. The Castigators don't have a Chapter Champion, though. Counts-as is useful there, though.

 

The Master of the Forge is an interesting character, though. The new Codex gives quite a bit of information, about how in the majority of Chapters the Techmarines kept to themselves, and the Master of the Forge is seen as being almost closer to Machines than to the Battle-Brothers of the Chapter. Which fits with the Castigators. Masters of the Forge are typically 'isolated' and 'eccentric'. The Castigators do have a Master of the Forge, and I wrote his name down somewhere (he's named in honour of Fabricator-General) but he would be rather distant from the bulk of the Chapter.

 

 

 

 

For all who are interested Mechrite washed with Devlan Mud is perfect.

 

Got any pics you can show us? :);)

[Commissar Molotov]

I'm curious Mol, how many Castigators make up the Honour Guard? I'm sure it varies slightly but do you have a quick estimation? Also after just finishing up with the extract from the Black Library on the Assault on Black Reach, do you plan on giving all the squads in a Company a nickname? For example the Tactical Squad lead by Sergeant Scipio has the title the 'Thunderbolts'. It could add some more character to inner-company situations.

 

I don't know. The Codex says 'most Space Marine Chapters have only have a handful of Honour Guard... A few of the older and larger Chapters can muster as many as two dozen Honour Guards, but it is a rare and terrible day when they all fight as one.' The Codex allows ten Honour Guard to be bought in a single unit, and I would guess that there wouldn't be too many more.

 

As for nicknaming the squads, I'm all for it. But I'm not going to personally name all 100 of them. :)

[Tyrannicide]

That's what I'm here for! :)

[Ferrus Manus]

I don't know. The Codex says 'most Space Marine Chapters have only have a handful of Honour Guard... A few of the older and larger Chapters can muster as many as two dozen Honour Guards, but it is a rare and terrible day when they all fight as one.' The Codex allows ten Honour Guard to be bought in a single unit, and I would guess that there wouldn't be too many more.

 

As for nicknaming the squads, I'm all for it. But I'm not going to personally name all 100 of them

Unless your the Ultramarines, I mean three honour guard units?! But anyway as for squad nicknames its a nice idea one that could work. I best get started, Tigris wont wait for ever :)

Edited September 22, 2008 by Ferrus Manus

[Marshal Rohr]

The Ultramarines need the honor guard for all their characters.

 

 

"a rare and terrible day". What kid of day would that be, I am intriqued as to what would make the entire honor guard fight in one place.

[brother varen]

Has the new codex changed the Castigators from your orginal version? It seems it has or have you made changes to it? I seems to remember that you stated that there were no more than 50 honor guard within the chapter. Are you trying to stay within GW's guidelines of codex? Wouldn't that kind of restrict your orginality to the Castigators? Even the Ultramarines have straied from the codex by making the Tyranid Veterans and modifing their battle barge to include tactics to fight the tyranids. What i'm trying to say is that you shouldn't restrict your Castigators by trying to comform to GW's guidelines of a codex chapter. You have put to much into the Castigators to see it changed by guidelines. If the Ultramarines can do it, why can't their successors? I don't beleive that the Castigators would not do the same as the Ultramarines, to better serve the Emperor and Imperium.

[Commissar Molotov]

Talking about Trythus, I do have this, which some of you will've seen in my blog:

 

Chapter Masters of the Castigators

NameDate BeganDate of DeathNotesQuintilius900.M41IncumbentCurrent Chapter MasterUnknown???.M41900.M41None at presentHadrian???.M40139.M41Attended the Conclave at Gathalamor, Renews the Chapter's Oath to the EmperorTrythus503.M38756.M38Chapter Master during the betrayal of the Reapers - restructured elements of the Chapter to ensure the Castigators would endure.Janus "The Grey"205.M38205.M38Was Chapter Master for only nine standard months before his death.Septimus630.M37743.M37Chapter Master during the Truth War of .M37

Crassus???.M3????.M3?Succeeded Baraquiel upon his death; also originally a Black Consul. Ordered the Chapter to paint its armour black for fourteen years in memory of Baraquiel.Baraquiel???.M3????.M3?Founded the Chapter

 

I was thinking about the conflicting reports we have on the age of Space Marines. Recently it's been suggested that the oldest (non-Blood Angel) Marines will be between 400 and 500. So you have to consider how long a Chapter Master remains in his post. If we assume that their rule lasts between 100-200 years on average, then we have a starting point to try and work out how many Chapter Masters the Castigators have had. The Castigators have been around for ~7000ish years, I assume, which means somewhere between 35-70 Chapter Masters in their history. Quite a lot, when you think about it.

 

EDIT:

 

Has the new codex changed the Castigators from your orginal version? It seems it has or have you made changes to it? I seems to remember that you stated that there were no more than 50 honor guard within the chapter. Are you trying to stay within GW's guidelines of codex? Wouldn't that kind of restrict your orginality to the Castigators? Even the Ultramarines have straied from the codex by making the Tyranid Veterans and modifing their battle barge to include tactics to fight the tyranids. What i'm trying to say is that you shouldn't restrict your Castigators by trying to comform to GW's guidelines of a codex chapter. You have put to much into the Castigators to see it changed by guidelines. If the Ultramarines can do it, why can't their successors? I don't beleive that the Castigators would not do the same as the Ultramarines, to better serve the Emperor and Imperium.

 

Well, my primary aim with the Castigators is to make them adhere to the background where possible. I think one of the things that makes them attractive to people reading them is that they seem consistent with the 40k ethos - that they could easily be a Chapter featured in the histories of the 40k universe. Fifty seems like a lot of Honour Guard (it's like having half a First Company over again) and their role is to guard the Chapter Master and the Ancient. So I can understand them being relatively limited in size.

 

The Castigators have strayed from the Codex Astartes in certain places. A key example would be their First Company, which has twelve squads. That's because of their 21 suits of Terminator Armour. The Terminators are organised into four squads of five (I, II, III, IV) and then the other eighty Veterans form eight squads of ten (V-XII). Not something that greatly impacts on their fighting style, but something distinct that distinguishes them.

 

I think every piece of new fluff about the Marines will impact how I look at the Castigators. Otherwise I'd have to ignore things like the Vanguard, Sternguard, Ironclad, etc. I don't think that that's a bad thing, or that the Castigators are restricted. :)

Edited September 22, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Marshal Rohr]

Sternguard are awesome, I cant get enough. I have yet to write a list for the Castigators that doesnt have 3 squads of Sternguard. Maybe Kantor wouldn't be a bad choice for Caphius...