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I have a Watch Sergeant model left over from when I built him back in 7th Edition. Back then having a Storm Shield on a unit character like this was useful as he could accept challenges that would otherwise prevent your Independent Character/Black Shield from being able to deal a lot of damage to the opponent's troops and have a chance of surviving. But in 8th, I'm finding it difficult to find a decent reason to arm him as such. The only thing I can see having a Storm Shield useful for, tanking hits that would otherwise kill a Deathwatch Veteran outright, seems better served on a non-Watch Sergeant model as if I fail the save then I lose his enhanced Leadership and Attacks. The model itself has a magnetised shoulder on the other arm, so I can arm it with anything else. But is there any point in taking a Storm Shield on a Watch Sergeant in 8th Edition?

This week we are talking about another classic unit that has seen a resurgence in power and durability, the dreadnought! Finally gone are the weird half infantry half vehicle rules of the old days! Now they sport an armor save, high toughness and the ability to have a S value above 10! Able to properly tangle with monstrous creatures and other hard hitting enemy elites they hit back just as hard if not harder than in days past with many of the weapons available to them doing multiple wounds(S. Hammer doing 5!) They come in 4 flavors and all but the Contemptor do not have diminishing stats as they take damage, making them scary right up til the last wound. The only downside they have now is they lost the ability to cram into a non-FW drop pod. So how are you running dreads this edition? Taking the extra firepower of the excellent choice of weapons they have? Or perhaps the hard hitting combat abilities of the DCCW's? What loadouts have worked well for you?

Hi gang! I wanted to share with you some photos from my most recent project. Having recently spent a lot of time working on the original legions and their colours (specifically Iron Hands, White Scars, Night Lords and Iron Warriors), I decided it was time to come up with my own scheme when looking at starting a Primaris force. Alas, this produced a contingent of marines I like to call 'The Ashen Wardens'. I managed to get this 1500 point force painted up within 6 weeks, no mean feat for me as I'm usually a very slow painter. To inaugurate this new chapter of marines, a good friend and I played a narrative campaign tree based on the one found in the new rule book and had a blast creating the back story for this newly forged band of warriors as they came face to face with a branch of Mortarion's forces following their defeat at Konor. Ultimately the Wardens emerged victorious! Who knows what deeds these heroic warriors will undertake in the months and years to come, but for now, please enjoy these photographs I took of the models in all their resplendent glory.

So, with the release of 8th Edition having been several weeks past, I figured we'd all had a decent amount of time to play some games, do some theorycrafting, that sort of thing. This is intended to be the first in a series of topics along the lines of the fantastic Unit of the Week that're all over the place. I can't exactly commit to doing a post every week, and sometimes the discussion doesn't fit as neat a timeframe as a week. But, like the UotW threads, these are meant to be all about discussion of each unit. Please feel free to share your thoughts, any comments on my analysis, your experiences with the units in game, anything. An old favourite, and a mainstay of the Adepta Sororitas. Between the utility she brings, our unfortunately sparse HQ slot, and the multitudes of detachments available, you can expect to see her on practically every Sororitas list, and usually more than once. Statistics: With both WS and BS 2+, she's a reliable and kickass combatant, and is almost guaranteed to hit whatever you point her at. As you might expect, her Strength, Toughness and Move are all nothing much to talk about, all laying at the regular human level, which means she's going to be relying on her wargear to make the most of her 2+ WS/BS and 4 attacks. Leadership 9 is nice, but she has no way of sharing that with her army, so it ends up being much of a muchness. Useful against attacks that target leadership, but not much else. Her save of 3+ and wounds are both pretty solid, but nothing special. Overall, pretty standard for a captain-level hero. Special Rules: As a Sororitas, the Canoness has the ever lovely Shield of Faith, though with the demise of Adamantium Will, it's anti-psyker efficacy is questionable at best, and the invulnerable save is overpowered by the Canoness' Rosarius special rule, which gives a 4++ as standard. Oh well, you might deny the occasional Smite? Act of Faith is the other Sororitas rule for the Canoness, and unlike SoF, it's a real doozy! The chance at an extra movement, shooting, or combat is huge. That said, you're likely to have better choices for your AoF than the Old Girl, but it's worth keeping in mind. It pairs well with a combi-weapon, effectively doubling the special weapon fire she throws out, and can let her throw plasma or what have you at two different units. If she's already in combat, then an extra 4 attacks when she can't be hit back could help turn the tide. Rosarius, as mentioned in SoF, gives a 4++ to the Canoness, which is fantastic, and helps deal with her less than perfect armour save. You'll never be saving on worse than a 4+ with this. Golden. Lead the Righteous: Aha, here we go! This rule is where the Canoness goes from good to great. A 6" bubble of rerolling 1s To Hit. Glorious. It's a Keyword linked ability, only working for <Order> units, but that's unlikely to be an issue, outside of cases such as Celestine or Priests, or if you have the Old Girl babysitting some allied Guard. Note that this bubble includes herself, so pairs wonderful with her 2+ to hit. Consider using plasma, as rerolling ones drastically reduces the chance of her killing herself by overcharging. Note that, as ever, rerolls happen before modifiers, so don't overcharge and fire both weapons in a Combi Plasma. Rerolling 1s will not save you. All in all LtR is a great utility rule that helps boost the firepower of the army around her. Equipment: The Canoness comes with a bolt pistol, chainsword, and frag/krak grenades. Swapping the bolt pistol for a boltgun is free, and trades being able to shoot into combat for range and extra firepower. As ever, bolt weapons are a solid work horse. No ap does hurt them, but s4 will hurt anything short of t8 on 5s or less, and her BS2+ and LtR will mean you're hitting most of the time. Given they're free options, you can't go too far wrong with them. The chainsword is about as good as you might expect. It grants an extra attack when used in combat, giving the Canoness 5 attacks. Like before, 2+ WS and LtR means she'll hit often, but at s3 and no ap, she's unlikely to really hurt anyone bar guardsmen. The bolt pistol can also be swapped for anything on the pistols, melee, or ranged weapons lists, and the chainsword can be swapped for the latter two or an eviscerator. Nice, though it's a shame we've lost gunslinger Canonesses as an option. We all know and love the bolt pistol. A solid budget option. It can be swapped for either the plasma or inferno pistol, which are both interesting choices. The inferno pistol is a pistol meltagun, with all the delicious s8, ap-4 and d6 damage, but suffers immensely from a tiny range of 6". It's likely to kill anything it touches, but getting it to touch is the problem. It gets the most out of the pistol ability to shoot into combat, as the short range means you're practically already in combat. Being in combat also means that you'll be within the inferno pistol’s remarkably small melta range. It's expensive and not the most versatile, but it is certainly deadly. The plasma pistol has become a much more enticing option with the new plasma rules. A risk free s7 ap-3 shot is pretty nice, even though it is only damage 1. And with LtR, overcharging the pistol for s8 and 2 damage is much lower risk than it appears. Compared to the inferno pistol, it's cheap, it's versatile, but it's much less deadly to anything with 3 or higher wounds. Ranged weapons. The Stormbolter is an enticing choice, as it effectively doubles the firepower of the Canoness compared to a regular bolter, for a staggeringly low price. All the good stuff of bolt weapons in a cheap, high volume package. However, unlike some of the choices here, it won't let her kill things much better than she already does. The Condemnor boltgun is almost embarrassingly mediocre, being a boltgun that does d3 damage to psykers. It might be useful if you play Grey Knights a lot? Otherwise, I'd pass. Combi-weapons are probably some of the best options for the Canoness, or indeed any captain equivalent, making fine use of their BS2+. Being a bolter AND a special weapon, they're a straight upgrade from a bolter. Plasma has similar range stats to a bolter, at 24” rapid fire 1, so it meshes well with the boltgun portion. Overcharging a Combi-Plasma has the same risks and rewards as the pistol, but be careful to not overcharge and fire both weapons. A Combi-melta lets you threaten just about anything, thanks to its high strength and marvelous ap. A combi-flamer is a useful overwatch ward, and hitting automatically means you ignore the -1 to hit for firing both weapons. Both the -melta and -flamer are assault weapons, so you can use them AND keep mobile, very useful considering the relatively short ranges of them. Melee weapons. The Eviscerator and Power weapons. Power Weapons come in three varieties, each with their own benefits and problems. The Power Sword, a Sororitas staple, comes with an excellent ap-3, but no other bonuses. If the Canoness wounds, that wound is pretty likely to go through, barring decent invulnerable saves. However, the Canoness is still only s3, so wounding in the first place is.... Tricky. Good if you’re against low toughness with low armour saves, like, ironically, Sisters. Against opponents like guard, you’re almost better off with a chainsword and it’s extra attack. Against marines, it’s not good, but it’s not bad.You only wound on 5s, but they save on 6s, so it evens out a bit . The Power Axe comes in as a nice middle Ground, with a lower ap-2, but a neat little +1 to strength. It’s a solid choice, but it won’t excell at anything. The other end of the curve is the Power Maul. The least ap of the group, but the most bonus to strength. +2 strength will help the Canoness wound, but at only ap-1, those wounds aren’t likely to stick. Useful against armies with bad armour saves, or only invulnerables, like daemons or Imperial Guard, as the ap-1 is less important than the bonus strength. The Eviscerator is perhaps the Queen of melee weapons, as far as the Canoness is concerned. It has the highest strength bonus (x2), best ap (-4), and best damage (d3). It is, however, the most expensive, at over 4 times the most expensive of the power weapons, and it comes with a hefty -1 to hit. What it does well, however, is let the Canoness threaten anything on the battlefield. At s6, most vehicles and monsters will be wounded on 5s, and the lighter varieties on 4s or even 3s for some Aeldari. Most anything else on the field will be wounded on 3s, and the ap-4 is going to ignore any armour save other than a 2+. The d3 damage allows her to reliably threaten other characters and monsters, the very same that she’s somewhat reliably wounding with the higher.strength. Tactics Honestly, you can just throw a Canoness where you want to reroll some 1s, and go from there. An Eviscerator Canoness hanging out with Retributors and Exorcists boosts their shooting, and provides a potent counter-charge unit for anything trying to gank you from behind. A Power/Combi-weapon Canoness can lend your advancing squads a hand. Match their combi weapon to the needs of the squads around, and Power Weapon to Taste. Same thing can be done with pistols, just with slightly less firepower. Thanks for reading all the way down here. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

This week we'll be discussing another classic unit, the Land Speeder. In previous editions a single loadout had taken over as the primary way to run LS. That is the HB/Typhoon ML slot. It was a good choice because LS were extremely fragile and had the range to stay away from enemy units close range fire and their longer range fire was usually more dedicated to bigger vehicles. Now it's one of the only vehicles to retain it's ability to be a squadron and whilst it loses some of its firepower in the form of taking a -1 to hit when shooting and moving it's far more durable! This means that other options are returning as viable such as the Assault cannon with its new profile of 6 shots and the old MM/HF for taking down infantry and vehicles. No longer do you have to worry about pairing a weapon because you can choose different targets. So how will you running your Speeders in 8th? Is the Typhoon still king? Are you liking their additional durability? What loadouts have you tried that worked well? http://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/LandSpeeder05-1.jpg

This week we are talking about one of the heavy hitters of the Space Marines, the Vindicator. Formerly this tank seemed to strike such fear into opponents that it would be targeted first and foremost to the exclusion of almost all else. In previous editions it could also be gimped by blowing off that big gun, making it little more than a rolling box. But now with the new vehicle rules that's all changed. While blast templates are gone which a lot of folks are saying is bad for this tank, lets be honest, how many times did you get lucky and get that horde of guys under the blast template? Usually it was only 3-5 and then you had to deal with cover saves, mitigating the ability to take out strong units. Also against vehicles unless you got lucky and blew it up, you only did one damage. Now it has the potential to knock chunks of damage off of enemy units. With a nice price drop with the codex it's gotten even more appealing. So how are you using them this edition? Are you finding the change in templates to be good or bad? What strategies are you using? http://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Vindicator00.png

This week we're going to be discussing the new kids on the block, Primaris Marines! Since they have only 3 units and while each one fills a different FOC, they have no options to speak of I'm rolling them in to one topic. (Plus we have a lot to cover!) Anyway, how will you be running these new more durable marines in 8th? Do you like the fast hard hitting harassment units of the Inceptors? The crazy amounts of plasma fire put down by the Hellblasters? Or the simple durability and solid bolter of the Intercessors? Since they all have to walk(unless you invest in a Thunderhawk!) What is you plan for getting them where they need to go? This isn't so much a problem for the Inceptors but the others will be on foot. What units will you have them support? Pleaste note: This is a TACTICS discussion, not a place to vent your opinions on whether you like them, want to buy them or think they are going to replace normal marines. Any off topic comments will be purged. Thank you.

Good evening, I'm new to the forums and like all of you I am going to be new to 8th Edition. I like to be competitive on a casual level, if that makes sense. I have a few concerns and queries about my army in particular and I hope to get some constructive feedback. I collect Imperial Fists heavily based on the 'Sentinels of Terra' supplement codex as well as being a drop pod assault themed army. To begin with my two main concerns are Sgt Garadon and drop pods. Sgt Garadon is my HQ of choice throughout 7th edition, he is a character upgraded from a tactical squad sergeant for a total of 75 points making the squad a HQ choice. He has the rule set of a captain and can take no additional upgrades, his wargear is simply a special bolt pistol that ignores cover called the 'spartein', a standard power fist and of-course an iron halo. He isn't in the index's or codex's for 8th edition, yet various youtubers have promised that supplements will come within the year. With the new rule (I don't know its name) to do with special characters not being able to join units? I'm not certain I will get my Sgt Garadon back at all, can anyone shed some light or education for me here? Secondly and possibly my largest concern being drop pods tripling in point cost. I currently have 7 drop pods in my 2000 odd 7th edition point list, all together I have my captain as above, 6 tactical squadrons and 3 devastator squadrons with a aegis defence line. With money always a large deciding factor when it comes to warhammer I don't want to have to replace any of my army, my main question being can i play this army at a casually competitive level or am I going to loose a lot more games? Chapter Tactics + Supplement benefits My Devastators before had a special rule known as tank hunter allowing me to re-roll wounds if they did not penetrate. Also my army was built to accommodate the boltor drill from my chapter tactics. Neither of these are in 8th edition as far as I know. Though my devastators will be able to split fire now making them more powerful, loosing these two rules has really broke the spirit of my army, and my own. Again various youtubers are convinced we will get chapter tactics and supplements within the following year, what do you think? To summarize; So far from what I have gathered specifically about my army isn't looking good. The point trade off with drop pods, loosing my chapter rules and the daunting concern of having to replace my HQ has puts me off the new edition. Not only this but there is icing on the cake, I have a really bad feeling Primaris Marines are going to replace the Space Marines completely and sadly the fluff behind it could have been better, but this is a different topic for another thread. Thanks in advance for any constructive feedback

Brothers (and Sisters?), a couple quick questions. I've been reading through all the releases on Warhammer Community, etc., but I haven't been able to keep up with the discussion here on B&C. I don't see anything in the 8th Edition Discussion board that addresses this, although the Black Templars have been speculating a little: 1. Are we expecting chapter Codices to be released at some point, in addition to the Index books that have already been announced/leaked? (Spikey Bits says "no?" BellofLostSouls thinks "yes," in the model of AoS's Battletome) 2. Do we expect chapter tactics to be announced at some point? Maybe tied to the chapter keywords? I looked through the leaked rules, and it looks like there isn't much to distinguish chapters from each other at this point, although the leaks are only portions of each book... Other than including a a high proportion of scouts and jump units in our armies, what is going to make Raven Guard "Raven Guard" in the 8th Edition? Or any other Codex chapter, for that matter. Can anyone direct me to productive discussion of these topics?

Greetings. This shall be an in-depth thread in which we put forward a modular thesis based on rigorously applied rationale and existing historical precedent married to educated supposition where no historical precedent is found. Yes, this is a wish-listing thread. I'm organizing a little get-together for my HH group, albeit we've decided to go heretical and covert the Horus Heresy legion list into a usable format for 8th edition. Everything is dandy so far; converting weapon and character stats (20 wound Spartans ) is simple, given both follow rigorous ratios when comparing their 7th edition stats to 8th edition. The hard part is figuring out the non-quantitative bits; which units get what special rules is one thing, but what is completely out of our grasp is coming up with 8th edition versions of Legiones Astartes rules. Many of the 7th edition LA rules were presented in such a creative way that a lot of times I was delighted in how they conveyed complex attributes through quite simple means, so I thought reaching out and jotting down as many ideas as possible would be a wonderful exercise in itself. How will Flawless Execution be represented without an Initiative stat? How will Edge of the Spear work with guaranteed reserves? Since I don't usually approve of home brew, I'd also like to back this up with as much peer-review as possible. Please do make sure to comment on anything you find particularly elegant or clumsy. Let's get the creative juices flowing, I am sure the FW team will be watching us, as they always do, for nuggets of inspirations Bonus Round: Rites of War, both general and legion specific. Bonus Bonus Round: Legion Unique Command Points & Abilities. Dark Angels: (jaxom) Legiones Astartes (Dark Angels) Bring Them Down: The Dark Angels excel at felling monstrous creatures and foul xenos the likes of which could not be imagined. Units with this rule gain +1 Damage when they roll a 6+ To Hit and automatically pass Morale checks when engaged with a unit with the Monster keyword. Covenant of Death: If your opponent finishes the game with more units on the table than you they recieve D3 Victory Points. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Legion of Unity: No one knows exactly what happened to the Thunder Warriors, just that they were gone and the First Legion stood in their place. Activate this before a unit makes it's attacks. The unit's attacks deal an additional point of Damage on a To Wound roll of 6. (2CP) Knights of the Order : The martial practices of the Dark Angels are informed by the millenia old traditions of Caliban. Choose a unit during the Combat phase. It improves its Weapon Skill by 1. Hexagrammaton Stratagem - The Dark Angels have an additional stratagem, based on the 'wing aura assigned to the army's Warlord character: Deathwing - (3CP) Pride of the Firstborn: Activate at any time. Your force ignores Battleshock tests of all kind for the entire battleround. Ravenwing - (3CP) No Escape: One Jetbike, Outrider, Speeder or <flyer> in your Reinforcement pool may enter the game from your opponent's table edge. Firewing - (2CP) Turbis Purgation-Rounds: One unit's ranged attacks gains 'Deflagrate' for this Battleround. Stormwing - (3CP) Breaching Counter-Tactics: Activate in-place of Overwatch; the Dark Angel unit moves into base contact and counts as having successfully completed a charge. Dreadwing -(2CP) Acid Rounds: Activate before a unit with "bolt" weapons fires; said weapons roll a D6 to decide the weapons' AP value. On a roll of a 5 or 6 the ammunition misfires; the unit makes its attacks at an AP of -4 but it not make shooting attacks at all next Battleround. Ironwing - (2CP) Ancient Animus: Pick a Vehicle; Depending on the phase in which you've activate this Stratagem, you may immediately repeat the previous action with the Vehicle. It may not be used at all next Battleround as the Vehicle's crew reset systems to regain control. Emperor's Children: Legiones Astartes (Emperor's Children) Exemplars of War: The Emperor's Children place an importance on speed and the precision of maneuver above all else in war. All units with this rule roll 2 dice and choose the highest when making an Advance. When choosing a unit to fight in close combat, an additional character with this rule may be chosen alongside a chosen unit. Martial Pride: The Legion's pride was a tangible thing, and it's officers were quick to defend it in blood. Some whispered it was more the prestige of their rank that they were so eager to guardr. All characters with this rule must perform a Heroic Intervention if they are able to. When a character with this rule falls in close combat, all units with this rule within 3" are at -1 Leadership for that Battle Round. Legion Stratagems: (1CP) Palatine Eagles: Activate when an enemy unit falls back from an Emperor's Children unit; the enemy unit immediately suffers D6 Mortal Wounds. (1CP) Exemplary Marksmanship: Select one unit and improve its Ballistic Skill by 1 for this turn. (3CP) Flawless Execution: A single unit may either Advance the full distance or charge the full distance. Rite of War: The Maru Skara Open Blade: In the first player turn, all units with the <Legion> and <Emperor's Children> keywords may declare a charge after advancing. Hidden Blade: Select 1-3 Elite/Fast Attack units. These units are not destroyed if they are still in the reinforcement pool by 3rd Battle Round, instead being destroyed if they are not deployed by the 4th Battle round. Iron Warriors: Legiones Astartes (Iron Warriors) Wrack and Ruin: Units with this rule ignore shooting casualties for the purposes of Battleshock tests. All units with this rule may use an additional grenade or melta bomb during the shooting and/or close combat phase. The Bitter End: The Legion's calling card was eternally breaking the most unassailable fortresses and unfavorable positions, as much as it was dying for little more than glorified ditch-works in holding actions that would never be noted in the histories of the Great Crusade. An Iron Warrior player always forfeits the decision to choose deployment position, but for all other purposes follows normal pre-game procedure. Warsmith: An optional upgrade for an Iron Warriors Praetor. The Warsmith must be Warlord, and awards the opponent 1 VP if the Warsmith is slain. All units within 3" of a Warsmith half the models removed as a result of a Battleshock test, rounding down. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Escalade: Use this stratagem when counting objectives scored, but before any random values are revealed. As long as there is an Iron Warrior unit within 3" of an objective within the opponent's deployment zone, enemy units also within 3" of an objective are ignored for the purposes of contesting objectives. (2CP) Ruinous Fire: Activate before shooting with a unit; the target ignores any benefits from being in cover, or it may claim them in exchange for forfeiting all action this Battle Round, save for the Fight Phase. (2CP) Weapons Up: One unit uses their unmodified Ballistic Skill for the purposes of Overwatch. (3CP) Fury of the IVth Legion: Provided they haven't moved this Battle Round, one unit may shoot an additional time during any action. If used in conjunction with Fury of the Legion, the unit fires a total of 6 times within Rapid Fire range. White Scars: Legiones Astartes (White Scars) Swift Action: Any unit with this rule that moves the maximum distance available to it (before Advancing), re-roll To Wounds roll of 1 for all attacks as well as impose a -1 To Hit modifier on enemy units rolling ranged hits against it. Eye of the Storm: A White Scar warlord add's +1 to the roll to determine turn order or an attempt to Steal the Initiative. Born in the Saddle: White Scar Jetbike or Outrider units ignore Dangerous Terrain. To Laugh In Death's Face: Each Dreadnought & Heavy Support unit in your force removes 1 Command Point. Each Fast Attack unit gives an additional 1 Command Point. Doesn't apply in Zone Mortalis Missions. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Jink: Select a unit; enemy units shooting at that unit suffer a penalty of -1 to hit. (2CP) Withdraw, Then Return: Activate after falling back with a unit; that unit may either double its movement, or charge after falling back. (3CP) The Zao: Activate at the beginning of your turn; your entire force may advance its maximum as well as charge after advancing. Imperial Fists: Legiones Astartes (Imperial Fists) Disciplined Fire: Heavy Support Squads may re-roll any To Wound rolls against Vehicles. All infantry add +1 to their To Hit when firing Bolt Guns, Bolt Pistols, Heavy Bolters and Quad-Bolters. Blood and Honour: Characters with this rule must attempt a Heroic Intervention if they are able to, and re-roll 1's To Hit when fighting Characters. Unshakable Defense: Imperial Fist units ignore shooting casualties for the purposes of Battleshock as long as they are behind a fortification or barricade. The Bitter End: The Legion takes great pride in holding features declared untenable by others, many times holding worthless ground against superior numbers for little more than to make the trade of blood and Bolter round for the Imperium's glory. An Imperial Fist player always forfeits the decision to choose deployment position, but for all other purposes follows normal pre-game procedure. Unique Wargear: Vigil-Pattern Storm Shield: An upgrade for any model in Cataphracti or Indominus Terminator armour. Increases its invulnerable save by +1, but the bearer may never make an attack with more than one weapon in a Fight phase. Solarite Power Gauntlet: x2 -4 Bearer suffers no penalites To Hit as he would usually with a Power Fist. Prototype Illiastus-pattern Assault Cannon: Heavy 4, 6 -1/-4 on a To Wound roll of 6. Rolling 3 1s on its To Hit roll removes the weapon from the game. Legion Stratagems (1CP) Blood and Boltshell: One unit uses their unmodified To Hit for the purposes of Overwatch. (1CP) Terra Gloria, Terra Victor: You may force an enemy unit in close combat with an Imperial Fist unit to re-roll its Battleshock roll. (1CP) Temporary Fortification: One unit in cover improves its Armour save by an additional +1 until it moves. Effects are cumulative. Night Lords: Legiones Astartes (Night Lords) A Talent for Murder: If Night Lords models outnumber enemy infantry in an assault, all participating models get a +1 bonus to their To Hit and To Wound rolls. Bulky and Very Bulky models count as single models. Nostraman Blood: One additional model is removed during a failed Battleshock check. Preysight: All models in the force ignore the negative effects of Night Fighting. From the Shadows: Enemy units shooting at Night Lord units on the first turn of the game suffer -1 To Hit in addition to any other modifiers. Seeds of Dissent: If the force Warlord is slain, all Night Lord units make an immediate Battleshock test at -2 LD. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) The Scream: Enemy units use the lowest Leadership value present within the Unit for the purposes of Battleshock for the remainder of this Battleround, and ignore the presence of any Characters within proximity for the purposes of Battleshock tests for the remainder of this Battleround. (2CP) Into the Night: Night Lord units may double their Movement distance when Falling Back at the expense of all other Actions during this Round. (3CP) In Midnight Clad: Activate before setting up units and spend an additional [X]CP. The first [X] Battlerounds are under Night Fighting conditions. Blood Angels: Legiones Astartes (Blood Angels) Encarmine Fury: Blood Angels may always re-roll 1s on their To Wound rolls when Fighting. Without Remorse, Without Relent: A Blood Angels player may force the opponent to re-roll any Battleshock tests for enemy units within 1" of a Blood Angels unit. Units with this rule may not Fall Back unless a Blood Angels Character is within 3". Host of Angels: If your force possesses more vehicles than it does units with <Legiones Astartes>, you must forfeit 1 Command Point per extra vehicle. If you cannot do so you may not take them. Overcharged Engines: Your vehicles may double their Movement in exchange for D6 Mortal Wounds. If you choose to double its Advance distance you must roll 2D6 for its Mortal Wounds instead. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Alone Against the Tide: One unit or Character may make its attacks in the Fight phase as if it hasn't fought this phase. (3CP) Descent of Angels: Any Reinforcements that you bring on this turn may ignore their distance limitation for the purposes of deploying near enemy units. (1CP) Into Abandon: Activate before removing models as a result of Battleshock; those models may immediately make their attacks as if they haven't Fought this phase. (2CP) Angelic Host: All non-Blood Angel units in your force that are within 6" of a Blood Angels unit may re-roll their Battleshock rolls. Iron Hands: Legiones Astartes (Iron Hands) Inviolate Armour: Reduce AP of all ranged weapons by 1 when targeting Iron Hands units or Vehicles. Stand and Fight: Iron Hand units must pass a Leadership check before making an Advance or wishing to gain a benefit from cover. Rigid Tactics: An Iron Hand force should not contain more units of Jump Infantry, Bikes or Jetbikes than it does Infantry Units. If it does, forfeit 1 Command Point per extra offending unit. If you cannot do so you may not take them. Iron-Father: Any Praetor may be upgraded to an Iron Father, ignoring a point of Damage on a 6+ (roll for each) and gaining a Servo Arm. If an iron Father is equipped with a bike, jump pack or jetbike, you must forfeit 3 Command Points. If you cannot do so you may not take them. Legion Stratagems (2CP) Medusan Plate: Activate before making Armour save rolls for a unit or Character; that unit ignores all AP modifiers. (1CP) The Flesh is Weak: Activate when an Iron Hand unit or Character suffers damage; roll a D6 for each point of damage, ignoring it on a 6. (1CP) Medusan Pragmatism: One unit or Character may fire its weapons normally at an enemy unit within 1". This attack may not make use of Fury of the Legion. (2CP) By the Gorgon: All non-Iron Hand units in the force within 6" of an Iron Hand unit may automatically pass Battleshock rolls in exchange for D3 Mortal Wounds. World Eaters: Legiones Astartes (World Eaters) Incarnate Violence: All learned quickly that the Legion's wrath was not a thing to be tested, nor indeed even witnessed. Units with this rule may re-roll 1's To-Wound on the turn they charge. Characters with this rule gain improve their Weapon Skill by +1 when fighting an enemy Character. Bloodlust: Once the Legion's wrath was truly unleashed, it was more often than not completely unstoppable, including by its own command. When units with this rule choose to Advance, they must do so towards the closest enemy unit. Units with this rule may roll a D6 before making a battleshock test while in close combat. On a 4+, the unit does not take the battleshock test, and instead all models make an additional attack. Blood Madness: Units with this rule make an additional attack when charging. Models removed as part of a battleshock test may immediately make an additional attack before being removed. This unit must always advance towards the closest enemy unit, and if a unit with this rule finds itself within 12" of an enemy unit and is able to charge, it must attempt to do so. Units with this rule may not Fall Back. Legion Statagems: (2CP) Lessons of Nuceria: Activate after an opponent spends CP to activate a Command Ability. It's effects are ignored. (1CP) The Bloody Twelth: One unit or character may make an additional close combat attack. (2CP) The Crimson Path: Activate when a charging unit loses a model or models to Overwatch. They get to make all their attacks before being removed. (2CP) Anomalous Casualties: All non-World Eater units in the force within 6" of a World Eater unit may automatically pass Battleshock rolls in exchange for D3 Mortal Wounds. Exhortations of Butchery: Any non-character model in a unit with the <Legion> and <World Eaters> keywords within 3" of an Apothecary with the <Legion> and <World Eaters> keywords, may make an additional close combat attack. Any model that does so must roll a D6, suffering a Mortal Wound on a 1. Additional Proposed Legion Special Unit: Legion Decimatus (Consul Upgrade) Wargear: Discipline Staff (Power Maul) Bolt pistol Frag and Krak Grenades Enforcer: The Decimatus was a rank whose presence was evident foremost among the VIth and XIIth Legions, but nonetheless present in all the Legions. The Decimatus was more often than not a role assigned to problematically belligerent legionaries who did not posses the initiative and self-reliance of their Moritat counterparts. These individuals were assigned to supplementary periodical Hypno-Induction, a process that was rumored to continue beneath their ever-present helms, and were relied upon by Legion Command to reign in problematic legionaries retarding the battle plan. Commonly replaced by the more "Crusade ideal conclusive" Chaplains of the latter years of the Great Crusade, many of the new-found Chaplains nevertheless kept the old equipment of their rank, and indeed their temperament. Disciplinary Authority: At the beginning of a Battle Round, all Units within 3" of a Decimatus may choose to ignore their Legiones Astartes (Legion) special rules. If they choose do so, they automatically suffer a single Mortal Wound. Should a unit within 3" of a Decimatus fail a Battleshock test, it ignores the result rolled and instead suffers D3 Mortal Wounds. Ultramarines: Legiones Astartes (Ultramarines) Interlocking Tactics: An Ultramarine Force doubles its total amount of Command Points. Certainty and Resolve: Ultramarine units may re-roll Battleshock tests. Rigid Chain of Command: If the Ultramarine detachment loses its Warlord it may not make use of any Stratagems for the duration of the game. Additionally, if all HQ units are killed the opponent gains a bonus Victory Point. Legion Stratagems (1CP) Ordered Withdrawal: A unit that made a Fall Back action may fire its weapons in the shooting phase. (1CP) Suppressive Fire: Activate when making a shooting attack with any weapon that is not a Grenade or Pistol; the target unit may not fire Overwatch this Battleround, as well as suffering a -1 penalty to its shooting To Hit rolls for the duration of this Battleround. (xCP) Tactical Assimilation: An Ultramarines force may use any other Legion's generic Legion Stratagem for double it's Command Point cost. (3CP) Rearm and Regroup : If the number of models removed due to Battleshock is such that there is enough to constitute a minimum-sized unit or larger of their same type, you may use this Stratagem to bring them on as one unit from your table edge. Death Guard: Legiones Astartes (Death Guard) Remorseless: Death Guard units always make Battleshock checks on a LD value of 10. Sons of Barbarus: Death Guard units or Characters may ignore any Mortal Wounds on a roll of 4+. Damage values against Death Guard models are halved, rounding up. Intractable: Death Guard models halve their movement distance when Falling Back. (2CP) Blades Unbroken: You may force your opponent to re-roll all To Wound rolls against one Death Guard unit or Character ​this Battleround. (2CP) Phosphex Rounds: Activate when a unit armed with Bolters, Heavy Bolters or Quad Bolters makes a shooting attack; you may re-roll any failed To Wound rolls, and any casualties caused are doubled for the purposes of Battleshock resolution. Any To Hit rolls of 1 cause a Mortal Wound to the user. (2CP) Suffer not the Witch: One Death Guard unit may attempt to Deny the Witch. Sons of Horus: Legiones Astartes (Sons of Horus) The Edge of the Spear: Sons of Horus units or Characters deployed from reinforcements may re-roll their charge distance. Merciless Fighters: Once all units within 1" of each other have fought, if there are more Sons of Horus infantry models than they are of the enemy, all Sons of Horus units and Characters may immediately make an extra attack. Death Dealers: Units and Characters shooting with a pistol, rapid fire or Assault weapon at an enemy within 12" need one less To Hit. Bitter Pride: Cannot benefit from Allied Character bonuses. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) Encirclement: You may use this Stratagem multiple times during the Deployment phase; each use allows one unit to arrive from any table edge not opposite yours at a time of your choosing. (2CP) Call Off Your Wolves: Your opponent's Battleshock roll becomes a 6. (3CP) Marshall of Hosts: If the number of models removed due to Battleshock is such that there is enough to constitute a minimum-sized unit or larger of their same unit entry, you may use this Stratagem to bring them on as one unit from your Table edge. Word Bearers: Legiones Astartes (Word Bearers) True Believers: Roll an extra die for Battleshock, picking the lowest. Cut Them Down: Enemy models falling back from Word Bearers must roll a die, suffering a Mortal Wound on a 1. Charismatic Leadership: A Word Bearer force must always include a Chaplain or an extra Centurion than required by any Detachment. Legion Stratagems: (1CP) Dark Portents: Neither player may re-roll any dice this Battle Round. (2CP) Unholy Chanting: Select a number Word Bearer's units when activating this Stratagem. The selected units forfeit any action apart from moving (not Advancing). All units or Characters within 6" automatically pass Battleshock tests and re-roll all 1s for the duration of the Battle Round. (3CP) Sacred Sacrifice: Remove a number of models from a unit belonging to your force and choose the following: A Character or Monster may restore an equivalent number of wounds. A Character or Monster may increase their Strength or Toughness value by an equivalent number, lasting for the duration of this Battle Round. You may automatically cast a psychic power, given you removed a number of models equal to its casting value. An equivalent or less points worth of Daemons may be brought in as Reinforcements, immediately deploying anywhere on the board 9" away from an enemy unit. Salamanders: Legiones Astartes (Salamanders) Strength of Will: Roll an extra die for Battleshock, picking the lowest. Promethean Gift: Hand Flamers, Flamers and Heavy Flamers increase their Strength by 1. All enemy flame weapons used against the Salamanders have their Strength reduced by 1. Nocturne Born: Reduce Run and Charge distances by 1", to a minimum of 1". Disdain of the Dark Age: You must pay 3 Command Points to take a Moritat Consul or Destroyer Squad, as well as any Phospex or Rad weapon option or upgrade. Legion Stratagems: (1CP) Cleansing Fire: Hand Flamers, Flamers and Heavy Flamers in a selected unit score the maximum number of possible hits. (1CP) Nocturnian Artifice: A unit of your choice may re-roll To Hit and Armour Save rolls of 1. (2CP) Unto the Anvil: Your force ignores all Battleshock tests for the entire Battle Round. Raven Guard: Legiones Astartes (Raven Guard) By Wing and Talon: All infantry apart from those in Terminator Armour may re-roll the dice rolled for Advance as well as set up anywhere on the board during Deployment at-least 12" away from enemy units. Units in Terminator Armour increase their Strength by 1 after a successful charge for the entire battleround. Flesh Over Steel: If you wish to take more vehicles than Infantry units you must pay a Command Point per extra Vehicle. Legion Stratagems: (3CP) Decapitation Strike: Your units may target a Character this turn irrespective of his distance. (2CP) Coordinated Strike: Your units may advance the full distance this Battleround. (2CP) Shameless Withdrawal: Instead of Overwatch, you may move a unit D6" when an enemy unit declares a Charge. Alpha Legion: Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) Mutable Tactics: Choose one of the following: All units, Vehicles or Characters may make a move after all deployment is complete. Units may set up anywhere on the board during Deployment at-least 12" away from enemy units. Units and Vehicles may re-roll To Wound rolls against Vehicles or Monsters. Units gain an additional attack when charged by an enemy unit for the duration of the Battle Round. Units and Vehicles ignore cover for the purposes of movement. All units may attempt to Deny the Witch when targeted by a Psychic Power. Martial Hubris: If you suffer more units destroyed than your opponent, your opponent gains +1 VP. Legion Stratagems: (2CP) We Are Legion: Your opponent selects a model in his force. That model becomes a acharacter under your control, counting as having charged its parent unit if it was part of one. (2CP) The Harrowing: Deny the enemy a reinforcement of your choice from coming onto the board this turn. (xCP) Constant Assimilation: Youmay use any other Legion's generic Legion Stratagem for double it's Command Point cost.

So this week we'll be discussing another iconic unit, the Terminators! Now coming in 4 different flavors and with the extra durability of a 2nd wound and the extra firepower of the combi/storm bolter, they seem to be quite formidable this edition. Another boost to them is the fact that they can now teleport without worry of mishaps and can then also charge on the same turn. I recall a gigantic thread that took place during 7th that discussed what to do about them to make them better. So has 8th brought about the return of the terminator? Do you think the changes are enough? What tactics and unit loadouts will you be using with them? Do you feel the new AP system helps them or hurts them?

Greetings folks, A little over 8 years ago, I started a small force of Novamarines. I wanted to do a Codex chapter, having mainly played non-Codex chapters previously. I got a few squads and characters painted up, then real life caught up with me and I had to abandon the project. Fast forward to last week and I get given a Primaris Marines to paint up for my local GW's painting competition. It had already been converted to have a chapter pad from the Deathwatch kit. Lo and behold, it was a Novamarine. Looks like the universe is trying to tell me something! Anyway, I've painted up the store mini as a test scheme for my own Primaris Marines, having already purchased Dark Imperium. I'll be dropping him off at the store tomorrow to go in the cabinet. Here's the test miniature, 2nd Intercessor Squad, 4th Company: I'm going to start with the contents of the Dark Imperium box only for now. I'm also trying to scrounge together more Novamarines pads from the DW kit. I may well end up hitting Shapeways to order some custom pads. I've gone for white instead of bone, as I just prefer the contrasting look of the two colours. They'll be done as 4th Company, as denoted by the numerals on the left kneepad. If I can get hold of some white numeral decals, I'll put the squad numbers in the tactical marking. This will likely be a slow burn project, as I collect together the bits I need, but I do hope to keep this thread rolling. C&C is, as always, appreciated. Cheers, WW

So, I'm posting up a WIP thread in, god knows, years. The last one was when the Contemptor was first released. Well, this time around, it's something from the starter set for 8th edition. It's one of the Death Guard, but I could only find the main body and the left arm for him. The rest of him was used to make his twin. So, in for a penny, in for a pound, I decided to make a new model out of whatever I could put my hands on. This is very much a WIP. At this point I'm only about halfway done so far. I still need to sort out the right shoulder guard (it's an amalgamation of two different kits that don't quite sit right together) by covering it, probably, with a cloak or something. The head was an old Night Lord one, with the wings swapped out for DG spikes from other starter kit models that I've been modifying. The torso was a Tartaros one to begin with, though I've dinged it up a bit and removed the scroll-work on the front of it. Not sure if I've finished with that yet. The backpack is a Crimson Slaughter one, as is the bolter arm. And, oh yeah, there's some epoxy intestines. A little weird to get it more or less right but I think it's just a matter of practice. Anyway, about an hour later and I've continued work, mostly sorting out the right side. I began the cloak (note the epoxy scaffold for further sculpting later on) and I've added in a rat's tail. It's a bit on the bony side but I like it. The only thing I'm concerned about atm is the additional censer on the shoulder pad. I think it's standing a little too proud. Maybe I should shave it down by another mil or two... Ideas, comments and critique are welcome.

So with the rise of 8th edition I had hoped that Nork Deddog would be a independent HQ choice so that I could run a all Ogryn army with Ogryns and Bullgryns as my mainstay using the Vanguard Detachment. Sadly Nork Deddog turns out to be an elite. However I am still interested in the idea, and as Ogryn/Bullgryn have no regiment keyword I though I might just run it as Imperium army and pick a HQ from somewhere else with Ogryn like stats and convert. Assuming I understand the faction correctly I can build a Battle-forged army with the Imperium keyword and I would just loose the sub faction special rules and similar. This would only be a small army for quick and friendly games. One converted HQ, one Squad of Ogryns, one or two Bullgryns squads. I have been scouring the leaks for a suitable HQ and have found two that vaguely fit the bill. Mephiston – his sword has stats similar to a Thunderhammer so I can see converting a Bullgryn to have a slab shield (for the 2+ Save) and a Thunderhammer (I think I have a spare Dreadknight hammer somewhere). Two of the psychic powers would only be able to target himself, but that is ok Karamazov- he has a leadership bubble for Imperium, similar stats, and I can convert a suitable Powersword and Multi-melta. He is however a vehicle So my question are: Will this work from an army construction point of view. Any other ideas for HQ choices. The army lacks anti tank/MC/tough stuff, any suggestions.

Ok, so I really hope that this thread is short, but I noticed that my assault sergeants can no longer dual wield pistols. I thought I was getting the hand of the index, but apparently not. This thread is to compile all the stuff we could do in 7th, but cannot do in 8th, so save us model making headaches from the edition hangover. Please present the issues in the form: +What's changed+ +The wording that prevents it (if applicable)+ +Alternative (if any)+ I'll Start. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Text +Wording+ Text +Alternative+ Text ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Assault marine sergeants can no longer dual wield pistols, or take combi meltas (bye bye meltacide) +Wording+ Most sergeants can pick from the sergeant equipment list, but ASM sergeants can swap their pistol for another pistol or melee weapon, and their chainsword for another melee weapon. They cannot swap their chainsword for a second pistol. +Alternative+ None ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Assault marines cannot take melta or plasma guns anymore, +Wording+ Normal Codex ASM entry, the BA section has no permissions to allow meltaguns +Alternative+ Company veterans with special weapons, although these are more expensive, and have different coloured helms. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Terminator and Sanguinary guard can no longer include a banner holder +Wording+ Banner Bearers are now individual units +Alternative+ Sanguinary guard can be taken at 4 men strong. If you had modelled a terminator standard bearer, you need to add a new terminator to the unit to make them 5 men strong. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Death Company thunder hammers now replace both weapons, so no hammer and bolter +Wording+ Death co entry +Alternative+ None. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Death Company Chaplains no longer exist +Wording+ Unit entry removed +Alternative+ Use normal chaplain, Lemartes or Astorath to buff DC. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Standard drop pods can no longer carry dreadnoughts, the pods you left the harnesses from to transport dreads arent too useful now. +Wording+ drop pod entry +Alternative+ Use Forge world dread drop pod entry. May be issues with drop pod size. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +Change+ Blood Angels named characters and units: Karlaen, Raphen's Death company, Squad Aphael, Cassor the Damned +Wording+ Deleted +Alternative+ Generic unit entries for Termiator captain, Termonator squad, death company, cassor. At least Raphen's loadout isnt so terrible this edtion.