[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Runefyre]

On the other hand, once the Mastodon reaches your opponents lines that huge block of terminators/deathsworn/contemptor will hit like a ton of bricks.

 

I think that's the compensation in the FW team's mind when they created it.

[Grimtooth]

700 points ain't buying you firepower, it is buying you transport capacity.

 

As a heavy transport, I think it serves is primary purpose while providing a good amount of firepower. Once payload is delivered it just runs around dealing happy death.

[sturguard]

Not to mention it's how much money?? Financial reasons will certainly restrict the units use, I know I can't justify that much cash into a model, especially with how shaky the future is with GW rulesets.

[Memento Of Prospero]

The mastodon is the most glorious troll pick in the history of gaming. I fill it with Techmarines with my iron hands. You better do at least 5 hull points a turn or not bother at all ;)

[Lord Blackwood]

All I see inthe mastadon is a means for my knights to get more than their points back

[Memento Of Prospero]

All I see inthe mastadon is a means for my knights to get more than their points back

 

Not if I melta array them off the table first!

[Runefyre]

All I see inthe mastadon is a means for my knights to get more than their points back

The same could be said of a warhound, or a knight porphyron, or any other large LoW. All it takes is the right application of firepower (namely a sicaran venator) to hamstring any superheavy, then charge in with a knight and finish it off.

 

Also whatever's inside the mastodon is likely enough to take down a knight or two. Heck I've had Red-blade on his own take down a knight with hearthsplitter.

[Lord Blackwood]

Heres the thing  though ,  once the knight kills the Mastadon its made more than its points back  and it likely  still does damage  to  whats inside it before it does go down. 

A warhound a Knight Porphyron ( which im not sold on being that good )   they  have an immediately effect on  the battle field , much more so than a mastadon would. 

The Mastadon is incredibly points dense  its a 700 point brick that will get x amount of dudes to point B  , but its a tremendously pleasant victory point swing ( Price of failure )  that WILL be the target of knights and leviathans who both can probably tear a hole clean through it and likely before it gets to point B. 

Then yea youve got yer ruined bunker  but the opponent just got some nice victory points and a 400(ish) for 700 trade 

Not to mention Knights usually dont come in 1s given the format ,  usually youll see 2  ( 2500  ~ 3000 )  If they are being allied to legions or   3/4 ( 4000 )   or if they are on their own something like  5 or 6 . 

Ive cautioned against this thing before because I think  its one of those trap choices , a waste of money and a points sink.  If you reckon you wanna take it , then take it. Its yer hobby !  Do You D:   
 

Edited March 16, 2017 by Bladewolf

[betrayer41]

i just think they look awesome

[Lord Blackwood]

i just think they look awesome

oh they do ,  and I think you  should paint one just so I can be excited about the model 

[Memento Of Prospero]

Heres the thing  though ,  once the knight kills the Mastadon its made more than its points back  and it likely  still does damage  to  whats inside it before it does go down. 

 

A warhound a Knight Porphyron ( which im not sold on being that good )   they  have an immediately effect on  the battle field , much more so than a mastadon would. 

 

The Mastadon is incredibly points dense  its a 700 point brick that will get x amount of dudes to point B  , but its a tremendously pleasant victory point swing ( Price of failure )  that WILL be the target of knights and leviathans who both can probably tear a hole clean through it and likely before it gets to point B. 

 

Then yea youve got yer ruined bunker  but the opponent just got some nice victory points and a 400(ish) for 700 trade 

 

Not to mention Knights usually dont come in 1s given the format ,  usually youll see 2  ( 2500  ~ 3000 )  If they are being allied to legions or   3/4 ( 4000 )   or if they are on their own something like  5 or 6 . 

 

Ive cautioned against this thing before because I think  its one of those trap choices , a waste of money and a points sink.  If you reckon you wanna take it , then take it. Its yer hobby !  Do You D:   

 

 

 

You are putting things in a vacuum. I have fielded my mastodon in 4 games so far, and it has gone down once... to a Warlord titan.

 

It's actually very well suited to deal with knights and dreadnoughts with the Melta Array and 2 lascannons because those things need to get really close to have any effect on it. You come at it with 2 knights? Fine. I'll just shoot one off the table, and the other will get clogged by the contents of the spartan spilling out. 

 

The only  real way to deal with a Mastodon is to apply ranged D weapons. and those are not cheap in the heresy.

[Lord Blackwood]

If your playing at a points value where there are warlord titans brother , a lot goes out the window. 

I am considering things at the 2500 to 3000  maybe 4000 level ( though thats rare enough ) 

Im not saying your experience is invalid , Im saying I know how you and the boys get down up north D: !   and that those games are usually quite large 

The Melta Array  and the Las cannons probably arent terribly bothersome to the ionic flare shield of the Atrapos whos also got his las cutter shennanigans  ( admittedly at 8 inches)  

[Runefyre]

-snip-

 

The only  real way to deal with a Mastodon is to apply ranged D weapons. and those are not cheap in the heresy.

 

Ranged D really only comes at the points level you'll be taking a mastodon. If I get one I know I can count on warhounds @3k.

 

But that's why I bought a sicaran venator, it's like a really easy off-switch for titans lol. Has worked wonders for me in the past.

 

And btw @Bladewolf, I'm not bothered by your responses, not at all. This is a tactica thread after all, people shouldn't have to put disclaimers on their opinion lol.

[Purge the Daemon]

What do we think of this list. The plan is leave the Malcadors on the table to hold the line and deal pain while everything else outflanks and hopes to do something.

 

3k points exactly

 

Leman Russ (spartan)

-pale hunters

 

Hvarl Red-Blade (spartan)

 

Priest of Fenris (spartan)

-artificer armour

-great frost blade

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ (spartan)

 

5 Tartaros Terminators (Spartan

-4 power fists

-chain fist

 

Spartan

-armoured ceramite

-flare shield

-dozer blade

-auxillary drive

-multi melta

 

10 Veterans

-marksmen

-artificer armour

-power fist

 

Rhino

-multi melta

-dozer blade

 

10 Veterans

-marksmen

-artificer armour

-power fist

 

Rhino

-multi melta

-dozer blade

 

Lighting

-3×2 kraken penetrators

-battle servitor control

-ground tracking auguries

 

2 Malcadors

-2 demolisher cannons

-2 battle cannons

-2 lascannon sponsons

-2 armoured ceramites

-2 flare shields

 

I know it's light on bodies but I'm kind of liking the feel though makes for a nice pincers maneuver army.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[Runefyre]

What do we think of this list. The plan is leave the Malcadors on the table to hold the line and deal pain while everything else outflanks and hopes to do something.

 

-snip-

 

My biggest concern would be against very mobile armies (white scars) and drop pod based armies alpha striking the malcadors off the board on the first turn.

 

You always have the option of keeping the spartan and 2x rhinos on the board and scouting them up 12". I see lots of versatility and a good shot at taking down any warhounds you'll encounter at the 3k point level.

 

 

Here's a 3k Pale Hunters list I created designed specifically to utilise the mastodon, with some allies this time to give the army a little extra oomph and draw fire from the mastodon.

 

3000 points Pale Hunter

 

Red-blade*

 

speaker of the dead*

 

Forge-lord (rad grenades)*

 

(2x) grey slayer squad (20 dudes, 4 power fists, 5 power weapons, Huscarl: AA, GFB)**

 

contemptor cortus (swap multi-melta for power-fist, 2x graviton guns)*

 

legion terminator squad (cataphractii terminators, 10 dudes, 2x chainfists, 8 power axes)*

 

Legion Mastodon

 

knight questoris allied detachment

 

Knight Warden (Lord-scion)

 

Knight Paladin (troops choice knight)

 

*rides in mastodon

**outflanks thanks to Red-blade

 

 

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 16, 2017 by Runefyre

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Any unit that doesn't get its points back immediately is tactical as hell.

[Lord Blackwood]

I like that list

 

I feel knight allies are a great way around Pale hunters innate limitations.

[Jackalwolf]

I'd never field a Warhound titan casually, Knight porphyrion needs an allied detachment if you play astartes. A Mastodon is fluffy, awesome, useful but not WAAC and will make you have an orgasm if you ram something to death.

[Baluc]

What is all the love for the mastadon? Its a super boring LoW choice. It actually can't even hurt a spartan, and only glances the custodes tanks on a 6? 750 points of LoW is kind of a rough level, not enough to really use a Warmachine Detachment(can't take 2 Legion SHV), but enough for a Warhound, 2 Knight Paladins/Errants or an Ordinatus. 

[Purge the Daemon]

What is all the love for the mastadon? Its a super boring LoW choice. It actually can't even hurt a spartan, and only glances the custodes tanks on a 6? 750 points of LoW is kind of a rough level, not enough to really use a Warmachine Detachment(can't take 2 Legion SHV), but enough for a Warhound, 2 Knight Paladins/Errants or an Ordinatus.

I think most of the love including mine is it looks cool as hell. I don't think its competitive in any way I mean it still dies fast possibly faster than a spartan as no flare sheild really hurt it.

 

If you really want to spend 700 points on a low the competitive options are warhound or Ordinatus for sure do I like then yes (can't field an Ordinatus though mech only) and I'm not going to bring a warhound feels to big.

[Baluc]

My army is based on Prospero, so I'll probably never actually do a Warhound since I don't recall Titan Maniple support, I have a fellblade, will likely get a Falchion, looking at getting a 2nd typhon for 4k, and probably a 2nd knight for options.  

[Jackalwolf]

I'm surprised a Vlka player doesn't understand the love for the Mastodon! Not all is about gaming competitiveness! If so I'd play Custodes with an allied detachment of a knight porphyrion and a cerastus lancer.

[Baluc]

Meh even when it was released it didn't stir my soul at all. I actually don't really like massive tanks the 6 hp variety are basically the limit for me until you get into the 4k sized games in which case I want to see titans and SH fliers and stuff, and more ground transports just seem lame. But, its obviously a personal preference thing.

 

I also don't see the Mastadon as a longship, for me that would be assault claws, fast, flexible and engineered to intergrated into the lifestyle of the legion. Mastadon seems too deliberate and obvious for my view of the legion, basically just an upgunned bulk troop transporter. 

[Jackalwolf]

MMM i can see that. Aesthethics being subjective and all. I was torn between a Mastodon or a Thunderhawk but went with the first ultimately because mold quality. I like to imagine my army "arriving" to a place, not just being a bunch of random marines in the middle of a random field, so the Mastodon is the perfect command vehicle and almost a mobile fortress so that's where it really scratches my itch, plus longboat.

[Purge the Daemon]

MMM i can see that. Aesthethics being subjective and all. I was torn between a Mastodon or a Thunderhawk but went with the first ultimately because mold quality. I like to imagine my army "arriving" to a place, not just being a bunch of random marines in the middle of a random field, so the Mastodon is the perfect command vehicle and almost a mobile fortress so that's where it really scratches my itch, plus longboat.

I've so considers both I don't like the thunderhawk because I just don't have enough on the baord especially if using it in onslaught with Russ. Don't want to fail a reserve rolls and the game be over turn 2.

 

Honestly I may just try use row again most of my Onslaught lists while including things I want such as Russ + something are boring to play but I do really want to use Russ.