9th edition incoming

[TiguriusX]

 

 

 

And plasma got a decent buff too due to it becoming UNMODIFIED hit rolls of 1. More more dying cuz the opponent is stealthy! (Assault intercessor sheet plasma pistol)

That is a nerf for us...we have keen senses

Is it? You could only use Keen Senses on one unit per phase, and I'm not going to miss having to spend the CP. Also, we're assuming this will carry over to all Plasma Weapons which, at the moment, we don't know for sure.

Yes it is a nerf.

 

With our terminators and stratagems we had 0 risk plasma that never exploded whether enemy had modifier of 0 or -5

 

You could do it other ways too like primaris command rhino or chaplain recitation of focus...anything that gave us BS+1 created safe plasma and keen senses guaranteed we could shoot at anything including elder flyers and plague bearers and laugh it off while others had to risk exploding

 

 

Now we dont

Edited July 3, 2020 by TiguriusX

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

 

 

 

And plasma got a decent buff too due to it becoming UNMODIFIED hit rolls of 1. More more dying cuz the opponent is stealthy! (Assault intercessor sheet plasma pistol)

That is a nerf for us...we have keen senses

Is it? You could only use Keen Senses on one unit per phase, and I'm not going to miss having to spend the CP. Also, we're assuming this will carry over to all Plasma Weapons which, at the moment, we don't know for sure.

Yes it is a nerf.

 

With our terminators and stratagems we had 0 risk plasma that never exploded whether enemy had modifier of 0 or -5

 

You could do it other ways too like primaris command rhino or chaplain recitation of focus...anything that gave us BS+1 created safe plasma and keen senses guaranteed we could shoot at anything including elder flyers and plague bearers and laugh it off while others had to risk exploding

 

 

Now we dont

It is a nerf to that one scenario (and the couple others like it), however to plasma usage overall it's a considerable buff as now you dont have to use the statement if you want to move long fangs or greyhunters with plasma. Yes wolf guard could essentially ignore plasma and now they cant, though reroll ones is pretty available still, but personally I see it as an net gain for other plasma toting units.

[Valerian]

In other news, until there is a FAQ/Errata, in 9th edition any of our Terminator models that have a Storm Shield will effectively have a 2++ Invulnerable save, due to the changes to the Storm Shield abilities.

 

1.  Storm Shields grant a 4++ Invulnerable save, but now also add +1 to the Save characteristic.

 

2.  Terminators have a 2+ Save characteristic, so when combined with a Storm Shield, it becomes a 1+ Save.

 

3.  Only unmodified (e.g. "natural") rolls of 1 always fail.

 

4.  Armour Penetration (AP), does not affect the Save characteristic, it affects the Save roll only.

 

5.  Rolls cannot be modified to any number lower than a 1.

 

 

So, when you combine all of these elements of the Rules, a Terminator will only take damage when you roll a natural 1 on the Save roll.  If you roll, for example, a 2 against a Melta Rifle hit (AP-4) that roll of a 2 is modified down to a 1 (because you can't modify rolls lower than a 1), and the Terminators have a 1+ save, so they're good.  Remember that only unmodified rolls of 1 fail, and in this example we do have a modified roll of a 1.

 

So, they officially have a 4++ Invulnerable save, but effectively have a 2++ Invulnerable.

 

Best,

 

Val

 

EDIT:  There is an AoS FAQ that supports this interpretation, too.  Rend in AoS is the same as AP in 40k:

 

[TiguriusX]

Lol you had to bring that storm shield chaos home

 

Brace for impact!

[Valerian]

Probably worth bringing to folks' attention.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Well in all honesty, until there is an FAQ or Errata, our terminators get a 3++ as the storm shield is an ability listed on the data sheet and without FAQ OR Errata it will still give them a 3++.

 

Now if they do port it across all storm shield carrying units, your post is 100% accurate, however I would say its equal parts likely to port over or work differently on terminators (staying a 3++ or reducing ap of shots) as either one requires a FAQ/Errata to accomplish.

[Dark Shepherd]

Just a random wishful thought, but I wonder if SW will get the equivalent to the WGPL for primaris with an optional addition of a bladeguard model?

That would be a slick alternative to general primaris WGPL

Extra interesting if/when the multiparts come out

 

Though then blast weapons becone more dangerous against them

[Karack Blackstone]

Bladeguard Vet style

OR

P-WGPL for say Intercessors?

Would be a fun and awesome way to have distinct and tanky Wolves like units on the table.

 

Both?

 

Six models at least means no room for HQ's in Impulsors, and Bike P-WP's and B-P-RP's for example start to get required. Not that it's always bad, however it does change the attack profile of the push elements of any given force.

[Dark Shepherd]

Both please

Plus itd be such a popular move

[Bulwyf]

Well in all honesty, until there is an FAQ or Errata, our terminators get a 3++ as the storm shield is an ability listed on the data sheet and without FAQ OR Errata it will still give them a 3++.

 

Now if they do port it across all storm shield carrying units, your post is 100% accurate, however I would say its equal parts likely to port over or work differently on terminators (staying a 3++ or reducing ap of shots) as either one requires a FAQ/Errata to accomplish.

 

that is how I am going to operate as well. Unless there is something on day 1 FAQ or Chapter Approved that says all storm shields for all armies are 4++ then I am using mine as 3++ as that is what is in the Space Wolf codex.

[Valerian]

Well in all honesty, until there is an FAQ or Errata, our terminators get a 3++ as the storm shield is an ability listed on the data sheet and without FAQ OR Errata it will still give them a 3++.

Now if they do port it across all storm shield carrying units, your post is 100% accurate, however I would say its equal parts likely to port over or work differently on terminators (staying a 3++ or reducing ap of shots) as either one requires a FAQ/Errata to accomplish.

Well yes, of course, what’s on the actual datasheet applies, but there is either going to be a day 1 Errata, or an Appendix with the actual rules that brings everything with a Storm Shield in-line. With the modern approach to 40k, gone are the days of folks having the exact same equipment/ability, but with different rules (which was quite common in previous editions). I would be VERY surprised if they don’t align everything on Day 1.

[Valerian]

Just a random wishful thought, but I wonder if SW will get the equivalent to the WGPL for primaris with an optional addition of a bladeguard model?

I very highly doubt it. Although I disagree with his thinking on this, Simon Grant already considers the Intercessor (and all other) Pack Leaders to be “Wolf Guard,” because they all have veteran/improved stats over the other models in their units. He has even started painting his Primaris Pack Leaders with Wolf Guard (yellow and black) shoulder markings, despite this being counter to how they’re painted in the 8e codex.

 

Of course, he’s not a rules developer anymore, but he’s probably a decent gauge for how they’re thinking.

[Karack Blackstone]

I expect +1 Sv / 4++ to be FAQ'ed or Errata'ed day one.

 

Still, TDA with 1+ / 4++ and TH/SS or SS/? for those that love Combi-plas or other strong shooty elements like SB/SS or if you're nutty and want to lay on the hurt, twin SB, could prove.... at least worth a discussion.

[TiguriusX]

I expect +1 Sv / 4++ to be FAQ'ed or Errata'ed day one.

 

Still, TDA with 1+ / 4++ and TH/SS or SS/? for those that love Combi-plas or other strong shooty elements like SB/SS or if you're nutty and want to lay on the hurt, twin SB, could prove.... at least worth a discussion.

I think it will help more than people realize.

 

Terminators with shields now have a 2+ against many of the weapons being used against them.

 

Even artillery like TFC or wyvern are now 2+ instead of 3++

 

I'm considering a sneaky 5 man SB and SS just to sit on an objective now

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

 

Well in all honesty, until there is an FAQ or Errata, our terminators get a 3++ as the storm shield is an ability listed on the data sheet and without FAQ OR Errata it will still give them a 3++.

Now if they do port it across all storm shield carrying units, your post is 100% accurate, however I would say its equal parts likely to port over or work differently on terminators (staying a 3++ or reducing ap of shots) as either one requires a FAQ/Errata to accomplish.

Well yes, of course, what’s on the actual datasheet applies, but there is either going to be a day 1 Errata, or an Appendix with the actual rules that brings everything with a Storm Shield in-line. With the modern approach to 40k, gone are the days of folks having the exact same equipment/ability, but with different rules (which was quite common in previous editions). I would be VERY surprised if they don’t align everything on Day 1.

 

Sure but what I guess I'm really getting at is maybe they intend to change terminator storm shields to a new name as they have to modify the datasheet either way. Maybe they want the storm shield to work that way with non TDA guys with no errata, and want to adjust how they work with TDA and will update the terminator datasheet respectively as either way the sheet gets modified. It's only a crazy rules interaction if it's the same for terminators as it is for 3+ dudes

[NightHowler]

Although I disagree with his thinking on this, Simon Grant already considers the Intercessor (and all other) Pack Leaders to be “Wolf Guard,” because they all have veteran/improved stats over the other models in their units. He has even started painting his Primaris Pack Leaders with Wolf Guard (yellow and black) shoulder markings, despite this being counter to how they’re painted in the 8e codex.

Of course, he’s not a rules developer anymore, but he’s probably a decent gauge for how they’re thinking.

I find this both shocking and disappointing. I have always thought that Simon Grant knew his Space Wolves better than this. Please correct me if I’m mistaken here, but Wolf Guard Pack Leaders have, for at least the last 5 or 6 editions of the game, never been pack members promoted to WGPL. They have always been members of the Wolf Lord’s personal body guard assigned to the pack as an attached veteran and have for several editions even been able to take different armor to the pack and also been in addition to a “pack leader”. He’s confusing squad sergeants, pack leaders, and Wolf Guard Pack Leaders.

 

I can only hope that his mistake doesn’t somehow filter up into the rules.

[Valerian]

 

Although I disagree with his thinking on this, Simon Grant already considers the Intercessor (and all other) Pack Leaders to be “Wolf Guard,” because they all have veteran/improved stats over the other models in their units. He has even started painting his Primaris Pack Leaders with Wolf Guard (yellow and black) shoulder markings, despite this being counter to how they’re painted in the 8e codex.

Of course, he’s not a rules developer anymore, but he’s probably a decent gauge for how they’re thinking.

I find this both shocking and disappointing. I have always thought that Simon Grant knew his Space Wolves better than this. Please correct me if I’m mistaken here, but Wolf Guard Pack Leaders have, for at least the last 5 or 6 editions of the game, never been pack members promoted to WGPL. They have always been members of the Wolf Lord’s personal body guard assigned to the pack as an attached veteran and have for several editions even been able to take different armor to the pack and also been in addition to a “pack leader”. He’s confusing squad sergeants, pack leaders, and Wolf Guard Pack Leaders.

 

I can only hope that his mistake doesn’t somehow filter up into the rules.

 

 

Yeah, I'm with you on this.  As I said, "I disagree with his thinking."  In his "head-canon" those veteran stat block unit champions (as they're called in the main rulebook) are just Wolf Guard that have been "permanently" assigned to those packs.  Whereas I see them as inherent/organic members of the pack that have just risen to a position of leadership as the Alpha - and they get slightly better stats (the extra Attack and point of Leadership) because they're the Alpha.  Basically no different than the current Grey Hunter Pack Leader, or whatever, before the extra Wolf Guard Pack Leader is also included.

 

He and I really disagree on this point, but he works at GW HQ, and I do not.

[Wispy]

one one hand, none of the GW Primaris sergeants so far have been painted as Wolf Guard.

on the other, working along side studio teams at GWHQ, Simon's head cannon has a strong chance of becoming real cannon.

 

from my perspective, i think if GW wanted something to be called Wolf Guard they'd call it that (like how they went out of the way to rename LTs into Battle Leaders)

 

Non-WG Pack Leaders for Blood Claw and Grey Hunter packs are are somewhat recent 6th/7th edition invention. they were given upgraded stat blocks and didn't exist in 5th. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Wispy

[Dark Shepherd]

The Primaris techmarine/Iron Priest could be a sneakily awesome unit for us, Thunder hammer hitting on 2+ with 5A and 6' heroic intervention

[Valerian]

 

[Lord Blackwood]

It appears I  will be converting a third Wolf Priest and third Iron Priest for the Dreadwolves 

I really love both those models just as is , cannot wait to slightly adjust them  to lean more toward our flavor. 

[Triszin]

until its release, dont assume the chaplain will be a wolf priest, just wait until its in print. and officially in a book/pdf.

[Lord Blackwood]

until its release, dont assume the chaplain will be a wolf priest, just wait until its in print. and officially in a book/pdf.

But then how can I complain if GW robs us ? 

[Dark Shepherd]

until its release, dont assume the chaplain will be a wolf priest, just wait until its in print. and officially in a book/pdf.

Think its been confirmed in another thread via warcom fb or something

[Triszin]

 

until its release, dont assume the chaplain will be a wolf priest, just wait until its in print. and officially in a book/pdf.

Think its been confirmed in another thread via warcom fb or something

 

the only source I've seen is someone saying a post on FB by Simon Grant.

but like many things, Until its in Print, and released officially by GW in a book/PDF, it is not 100% confirmed.