[HH1.0] 30k Space Wolves tactics

[Baluc]

Pale Hunter 2.5k

[Runefyre]

@Baluc do let us know how your match goes

 

So lately I've become obsessed with the glory that is a terminator based army, and I'm in no way inspired by Darien Vasco's (of Battle Bunnies) gorgeous justaerin themed SoH army: http://battlebunnies.blogspot.com/2017/03/no-retreat-horus-heresy.html

 

So I set about (again) to try and build a list around Russ leading varagyr, and this time I chose Bloodied Claw so I can take full advantage of the heavy slot. Plus there's a potential +2 to combat resolution if I'm in my opponent's deployment zone and the theign kills somebody in a challenge.

 

This list becomes even deadlier if FW ever gets around to adding a wound to varagyr to make them actually worth the investment (and fixes frost weapons).

 

2500 points (bloodied claw)

 

Hvarl

 

Speaker of the dead (terminator armour)

 

Speaker of the dead (terminator armour)

 

Wolfkin of Russ

 

Varagyr squad (10 dudes, 10 power fists, 5 frost claws, 3 reaper autocannons)

 

Varagyr squad (10 dudes, 10 power fists, 5 frost claws, 3 reaper autocannons)

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Leman Russ

 

That's 20 hardy terminators scouting up, Both units with FnP and one with Russ tanking in front. The Venators shut down any nasty super heavies I'm guaranteed to encounter at 2.5k.

 

Thoughts?

[Purge the Daemon]

@Baluc do let us know how your match goes

 

So lately I've become obsessed with the glory that is a terminator based army, and I'm in no way inspired by Darien Vasco's (of Battle Bunnies) gorgeous justaerin themed SoH army: http://battlebunnies.blogspot.com/2017/03/no-retreat-horus-heresy.html

 

So I set about (again) to try and build a list around Russ leading varagyr, and this time I chose Bloodied Claw so I can take full advantage of the heavy slot. Plus there's a potential +2 to combat resolution if I'm in my opponent's deployment zone and the theign kills somebody in a challenge.

 

This list becomes even deadlier if FW ever gets around to adding a wound to varagyr to make them actually worth the investment (and fixes frost weapons).

 

2500 points (bloodied claw)

 

Hvarl

 

Speaker of the dead (terminator armour)

 

Speaker of the dead (terminator armour)

 

Wolfkin of Russ

 

Varagyr squad (10 dudes, 10 power fists, 5 frost claws, 3 reaper autocannons)

 

Varagyr squad (10 dudes, 10 power fists, 5 frost claws, 3 reaper autocannons)

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Sicaran Venator

 

Leman Russ

 

That's 20 hardy terminators scouting up, Both units with FnP and one with Russ tanking in front. The Venators shut down any nasty super heavies I'm guaranteed to encounter at 2.5k.

 

Thoughts?

I feel the biggest issue here is MSU and jetbike armies you can only attack so many things. Also even with scout Varagyr are quite slow but maybe fast enough with scout (though it only let's them move 6). Edited March 22, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[Runefyre]

Sicaran Venators are actually quite good at forcing bikes to jink, as most people run them in squadrons of 3-4, so losing up to two in one shooting phase is pretty rough for them.

 

MSU could be an issue, but if it's veteran spam they can't shoot me unless they're dangerously close to charge range, and FnP will help against ap2 hits from veterans.

 

Honestly I think fliers are a big weakness, But each squad does have 6 twin-linked str7 shots so I guess that could work in a pinch.

[Grimtooth]

Isn't the fact that Varagyr are all characters capable of accepting challenges the balance of them only having one wound? Are there any other Elite choice terminator squads that are all characters with two wounds? I have seen people mention other units that have two wounds but are they characters? Seems that people want to basically have two wound challenge accepting cannon fodder while their heavy hitting character cleans up.

[Lord Blackwood]

Isn't the fact that Varagyr are all characters capable of accepting challenges the balance of them only having one wound? Are there any other Elite choice terminator squads that are all characters with two wounds? I have seen people mention other units that have two wounds but are they characters? Seems that people want to basically have two wound challenge accepting cannon fodder while their heavy hitting character cleans up.

I  feel like this statement is a bit strange. 

 

I  dont see how it matters how many wounds they have , they dont have eternal warrior so they get doubled out by  str 8 regardless. 

 

Command Squads have chosen warriors and can accept challenges , its really not that big a deal  really. 

 

Not to mention if your taking Russ you probably WANT russ in the challenge

 

If they had 2 wounds  I  feel like the 270 BASELINE buy in would be a bit easier to swallow

 

Lordsbane is nifty though  sure  but in reality a lot of what they have is skippable , its just not very impressive for what they cost to make them worthwhile.  

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

Isn't the fact that Varagyr are all characters capable of accepting challenges the balance of them only having one wound? Are there any other Elite choice terminator squads that are all characters with two wounds? I have seen people mention other units that have two wounds but are they characters? Seems that people want to basically have two wound challenge accepting cannon fodder while their heavy hitting character cleans up.

I feel like this statement is a bit strange.

 

I dont see how it matters how many wounds they have , they dont have eternal warrior so they get doubled out by str 8 regardless.

 

Command Squads have chosen warriors and can accept challenges , its really not that big a deal really.

 

Not to mention if your taking Russ you probably WANT russ in the challenge

 

If they had 2 wounds I feel like the 270 BASELINE buy in would be a bit easier to swallow

 

Lordsbane is nifty though sure but in reality a lot of what they have is skippable , its just not very impressive for what they cost to make them worthwhile.

Key distinction is Lordsbane treats then like characters for accepting challenges but only the thegn is actually a character so could look out sir the rest can't.

 

I'd have to agree here lords bane is litterally just chosen warrior with a +1 combat resolution if the enemy Praetor or Primarch doesn't kill you first. And the how doesn't do much either best case scenario you get 10 in base contact if you want to risk charging from a further range because it requires min 6 inches. So you get 10 attacks if you all made base contact wounding on 3s vs marines but most things you'd want to charge are 2+ save so realistically you don't do anything with it, you are more likely to fail the charge then push a wound through 2+ save possibly with FnP as well.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Purge the Daemon

[Runefyre]

Unless we get guaranteed 6" charges in 8th edition. If that's the case (and perhaps if Hammer of Wrath itself is reworked to include the use of weapons equipped) I think crushing charge would be more useful.

 

Lordsbane is neat, but it should also allow them to be taken as a command squad.

 

They should also start out at minimum 2 varagyr+theign. That would make them a command squad with frost weapons and a couple extra special rules.

 

but 2W each is pretty much necessary by that comparison as they're astronomically expensive compared to command squads with power fists.

[panascope]

Isn't the fact that Varagyr are all characters capable of accepting challenges the balance of them only having one wound? Are there any other Elite choice terminator squads that are all characters with two wounds? I have seen people mention other units that have two wounds but are they characters? Seems that people want to basically have two wound challenge accepting cannon fodder while their heavy hitting character cleans up.

Justaerin are 2W, WS5, and Chosen warriors.

[sturguard]

This is the list I will he taking this weekend.

 

Red Blade

 

Praven

W/ AA, Volkite Charger, GFB

4 Vorax

W/ frag grenades

 

Caster of Runes

Master level 2

 

10 grey slayers

W/ gfb and 2x combi-melta

 

10 grey slayer

W/ gfb and 2x combi-melta

 

8 vets

W/ power axe, 4x combi-plasma

Rhino

W/ multimelta

 

8 vets

W/ power axe, 4x combi-plasma

Rhino

W/ multimelta

 

Jav

W/ cml,hb

 

Jav

W/ cml, hb

 

Lightning

W/ 2x kraken rounds, ground tracking, servitor

 

Sicaran tank of some kind

 

Typhon

W/lascannons

 

That is 2500.

Baluc,

I was looking at something similar

 

minus the Typhon but with a squad of 3 vindicators with laser destroyers and minus the praven and vorax but adding a legion terminator squad.

[Charlo]

Being WS6 on the charge and forcing the enemy Preator to hit your random Varagyr mook on a 4+ is quite funny however. Nothing huge, but quite funny.

 

While I don't want every terminator special snowflake unit to be 2W, as it sort of makes them all less special by comparison - I suppose these guys just need one extra little thing to help them out.

 

Great Frost Weapons probably would be that thing, letting them be a nice mix of Justaerian and Deathshroud.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

I am newbi in 30k. Does anyone have a good suggestion for a 1000 pts 6th Legion list.

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

Hi folks, since finally Inferno came out last month with the full load of SW rules I decided to reboot my B&C account for the occasion :D

 

I focused on trying to put the Pale Hunters RoW at work, and figure out to reach the goal by trying to combine RoW bonuses (e.g. +1 reserves) with army LA rules (e.g. TL sides when outflanking) ;) I want initially to avoid special characters such as good old Hvarl, at least until FW won't release his model :P

 

Here is my result (3000 pts):

 

- Praetor (paragon, PF, lasers, rune armour, halo, bike)

- Forge Lord (PF, boarding, familiar, cortex, rad, bike)

- Vigilator (GFB, AA, JP)

 

- 10 Slayers (2 PFs, 2 PWs, vexilla, Huscarl w/ GFB & AA) on Rhino (DB)

- 10 Slayers (same stuff) on Rhino (DB)

 

- 1 Apothecary (sword, bike)

- 10 Marksman Veterans (4 combi-grenades, 2 flamers, 3 axes, vexilla, Sarge w/ AA & PF) on Rhino (DB)

- 8 Cataphractii (3 CFs, 3 PFs) on Spartan (TLHF, DB, ceramite, shield)

 

- 6 Outriders (2 axes, Sarge w/ axe)

- Primaris-Lightning (4 Kraken, auguries, servitor)

 

- 9 Thallax (3 photon thrusters)

 

Basically, the idea is to outflank with Vets, bikes + Lord + Praetor and Thallax + Viggy (all on 2+ with TL sides) in order to hit the opponent where he doesn't want to :D Do you think that it might work (OK it's a turn-3 assault list, but all units are a potential threat having Counter-attack, and Outriders are out of reach for many arriving on a weak side with def & rad grenade load + CC weapons)?

[Runefyre]

Being WS6 on the charge and forcing the enemy Preator to hit your random Varagyr mook on a 4+ is quite funny however. Nothing huge, but quite funny.

 

While I don't want every terminator special snowflake unit to be 2W, as it sort of makes them all less special by comparison - I suppose these guys just need one extra little thing to help them out.

 

Great Frost Weapons probably would be that thing, letting them be a nice mix of Justaerian and Deathshroud.

If the GFB replaced the power fist that would make them worse than they are now. As is they need the power fists to negate the 1W advantage over (still cheaper) justaerin and deathshroud.

[Lord Blackwood]

This is the Pale hunters list I will be running at 3k ( My half of a 6k tournament in August ) 
 

+++ Pale Hunting 6k Doubles Tourney (Warhammer 30,000 - The Horus Heresy) [3000pts] +++

 

++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2115pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Legion Praetor [155pts]: Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Legiones Astartes, Master of the Legion, Paragon Blade

 

Priest of Fenris [125pts]: Legiones Astartes

···· Additional Wargear: Artificer Armour, Great Frost Blade

···· Speaker of the Dead: Garm-blood vial, Healing Balms, 

···· Standard Wargear: Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades, Refractor Field

 

+ Elites +

 

Legion Terminator Squad [580pts]: Chainfist, 4x Legion Terminators, Legiones Astartes, 3x Power Fist

···· Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon: Terminator Armour

···· Legion Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Legiones Astartes, Quad Lascannon Sponsons, Searchlight and Smoke Launchers, Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter

···· Legion Terminator Sergeant: Power Fist

 

+ Troops +

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [235pts]: Additional Wargear, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legiones Astartes, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen

···· Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer Blade, MultiMelta, Twin-Linked Bolter

···· Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter

········ Power Weapon: Power Axe

···· Standard Wargear: Bolt Pistols, Bolters, Chainswords/Combat Blades, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour

 

Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [235pts]: Additional Wargear, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legiones Astartes, Veteran Tactics: Marksmen

···· Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier: Dozer Blade, MultiMelta, Twin-Linked Bolter

···· Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter

········ Power Weapon: Power Axe

···· Standard Wargear: Bolt Pistols, Bolters, Chainswords/Combat Blades, Frag and Krak Grenades, Power Armour

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter [230pts]: Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Kraken Penetrator Heavy missile, Legiones Astartes, Twin-Linked Lascannon

 

+ Legion +

 

Legiones Astartes:    VI: Space Wolves, Loyalist

 

Rite of War: The Pale Hunters

 

+ Lords of War +

 

Leman Russ [455pts]: Frag & Krak Grenades, Primarch

 

+ No Force Org +

 

The Wolf-kin of Russ [100pts]: Freki the Swift, Geri the Cunning, Tooth & Claw

 

++ Allied Detachment (Questoris Knight Crusade Army) [885pts] ++

 

+ Troops +

 

Scion Martial [435pts]

···· Cerastus Knight-Atrapos: Household Rank, Lascutter, Singularity Cannon, Super Heavy Walker

 

+ HQ +

 

Seneschal [450pts]

···· Cerastus Knight-Lancer: Household Rank, Super Heavy Walker

 

 

[Charlo]

 

 

Being WS6 on the charge and forcing the enemy Preator to hit your random Varagyr mook on a 4+ is quite funny however. Nothing huge, but quite funny.

 

While I don't want every terminator special snowflake unit to be 2W, as it sort of makes them all less special by comparison - I suppose these guys just need one extra little thing to help them out.

 

Great Frost Weapons probably would be that thing, letting them be a nice mix of Justaerian and Deathshroud.

If the GFB replaced the power fist that would make them worse than they are now. As is they need the power fists to negate the 1W advantage over (still cheaper) justaerin and deathshroud.

I guess, but surely it's better to strike first in some cases and get all of those high WS attacks in?

 

It's swings and roundabouts really but I think GFB would have had merit.

[Runefyre]

 

 

Being WS6 on the charge and forcing the enemy Preator to hit your random Varagyr mook on a 4+ is quite funny however. Nothing huge, but quite funny.

 

While I don't want every terminator special snowflake unit to be 2W, as it sort of makes them all less special by comparison - I suppose these guys just need one extra little thing to help them out.

 

Great Frost Weapons probably would be that thing, letting them be a nice mix of Justaerian and Deathshroud.

If the GFB replaced the power fist that would make them worse than they are now. As is they need the power fists to negate the 1W advantage over (still cheaper) justaerin and deathshroud.

I guess, but surely it's better to strike first in some cases and get all of those high WS attacks in?

 

It's swings and roundabouts really but I think GFB would have had merit.

 

I don't think swinging first is sufficient cause to justify losing instant death (against t4) plus the ability to have +1 attack (GFB's are two-handed).

 

Varagyr just need 2W, that's all I ask for. As is it feels kinda ridiculous to be spending 59 points-per-model (this is on a base unit of 5, with the mandatory additional frost weapon upgrade) on a T4, 1W model with additional special rules that are all very gimmicky (and I'm paying extra for those rules as well).

 

What are Tsons player paying for sekhmet? 52 ppm (5-man squad) for a 2W, PML level 2, 3++ terminators equipped with force weapons and a RoW that boosts them again.

 

SoH players pay 56 ppm (5-man squad) for 2W, power fist equipped justaerin who get furious charge (way more useful than crushing charge). And guess what? SoH player can choose not to pay for the power fists if they need to save points. That's really useful. Justaerin also get a RoW that let's them deep strike (Horus and Abaddon also synergise with this).

 

Varagyr get about 0 bonuses from our RoWs apart from the lackluster combat resolution bonus from Bloodied Claw.

[LukeTheButcher]

Right, So I will be going to a tournament next week.

 

This is what I will be bringing (too late to change things now...)

 

Legion Astartes: Space Wolves : Right of War: 'The Bloodied Claws'

 

 

LOW

Leman Russ, The Wolf King of Fenris 

 

 

Praetor (Aether Armour, Iron Halo, Paragon Blade, Digital-lasers)

Command Squad (+2 Chosen, 1x Power Sword, 1x Power Axe)

Speaker of the Dead (Artificer Armour, Great Frost Blade)

Damocles Command Rhino

 

 

​Elite

Legion Terminator Squad (+1 Terminator, 2x Chainfists, 1x Powerfist, 1x Reaper Autocannon, 2x Twin Lightening Claws)

 - Dedicated Transport - Spartan Assault Tank (Flare Shield) 

 

Troops

Grey Slayer Squad (Sergeant Artificer Armour, Sergeant Powerfist, Sergeant Meltabombs, Powerfist, 9x Bolters, Vexilla)                                     

- Dedicated Transport - Rhino Armoured Transport (Multimelta)

 

Grey Slayer Squad (Sergeant Artificer Armour, Sergeant Power Fist, Sergeant Meltabombs, 10x Bolters, Vexilla)                          

- Dedicated Transport - Rhino Armoured Transport (Multimelta)

 

Legion Breacher Squad (Sergeant Artificer Armour, 2x Meltaguns)

- Dedicated Transport - Land Raider Phobos            

 

 

Fast Attack

Primaris-Lightening Strike Fighter (2x Dual Kraken Penetrators, Battle Servitor Control, Ground Tracking Auguries)

 

 

Heavy Support

Fire Raptor Gunship (2x Reaper Autocannon Battery)

 

 

​So, Russ and Speaker with the Terminators in the Spartan. Praetor and Command Squad in the Damocles. Reserve boost to get the fliers on prey the troops can hold objectives and fend off attacks.

 

Most of this is what I have, so weapon choices are as much what was fun to build as anything else.

 

Will post up match-ups and an after action report after the event....

 

 

 

 

 

99% finished.....

[ronin_cse]

I'm sure this has come up already but there are a lot of posts to wade through at this point ;). So other than for modeling reasons there is pretty much no reason to ever take a regular frost blade over a frost claw right?

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

I'm sure this has come up already but there are a lot of posts to wade through at this point ;). So other than for modeling reasons there is pretty much no reason to ever take a regular frost blade over a frost claw right?

Exactly (sadly) :)

 

Overall, other than being the claw always superior to sword rulewise, for models that can purchase them I also see GFB superior to frost axe (unless of course there are better choices in absolute sense available such as Paragon, or a particular reason to go for an ordinary PF), which is why I'll equip GFBs to all my Huscarls and Consuls which don't come with a PW on their own (AND don't have to handle boarding shields) ;)

Edited March 27, 2017 by Chronos Darkhelmet

[Jackalwolf]

Ozeryk, I would not hold my breath for FW to release Hvarl, they are clearly going to do Bjorn and that will leave us with 2x wolves and a praetor as the character series, that's more than any other legion other than word bearers.

 

Not saying they'll never make him, just that I don't think it will happen for years if it does at all.

 

How many character series models that were not in the lore for a long time are there? Hvarl didn't exist before inferno.

[Baluc]

Ozeryk, I would not hold my breath for FW to release Hvarl, they are clearly going to do Bjorn and that will leave us with 2x wolves and a praetor as the character series, that's more than any other legion other than word bearers.

 

Not saying they'll never make him, just that I don't think it will happen for years if it does at all.

 

How many character series models that were not in the lore for a long time are there? Hvarl didn't exist before inferno.

Few enough. 

 

I doubt we get a Hvarl as well. I made my own and it wasn't too bad at all.

[Purge the Daemon]

 

 

Ozeryk, I would not hold my breath for FW to release Hvarl, they are clearly going to do Bjorn and that will leave us with 2x wolves and a praetor as the character series, that's more than any other legion other than word bearers.

 

Not saying they'll never make him, just that I don't think it will happen for years if it does at all.

 

How many character series models that were not in the lore for a long time are there? Hvarl didn't exist before inferno.

Few enough.

 

I doubt we get a Hvarl as well. I made my own and it wasn't too bad at all.

I doubt we get him though he technically diddle exist before in wolf king but he was Jarl of the 7th then but now he is the 4th. I doubt we get him better off converting him.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Roger that. How can I cheaply include air defence then since the Mastodon will have command vox relay.

What about taking the command relay as a fortification?

[Grimtooth]

Ozeryk, I would not hold my breath for FW to release Hvarl, they are clearly going to do Bjorn and that will leave us with 2x wolves and a praetor as the character series, that's more than any other legion other than word bearers.

 

Not saying they'll never make him, just that I don't think it will happen for years if it does at all.

 

How many character series models that were not in the lore for a long time are there? Hvarl didn't exist before inferno.

FW will release a Hvarl.  There is no reason to release a Bjorn since during the Heresy and even Prospero Burns he was pretty much a nobody.  Not to mention that if players want a Bjorn, they just pick up Greigor and use him as Huscarl model.

 

But Hvarl, he is a Inferno release character and a very popular one considering he is basically a must take for Pale Hunters RoW.  Plus he has a pretty unique loadout and all that I am sure FW is not going to want aftermarket suppliers suddenly casting a heavy bolter arm for him in terminator armor.

 

You will see a Hvarl.

And I would not count Greigor as a Inferno release considering he came with the Prospero box.