The Castigators

[Ferrus Manus]

Here's my notes:

 

Command Squad Tigris ‘Death From Above’ -

- Senior Sergeant Tiberius

- Standard Bearer Pollux

- Apothecary Crassus

- Chaplain Decius

- Lexicanium Eonus (attached from Librarium)

I Assault Squad ‘Glorious’: Sergeant Gaius

II Assault Squad ‘Relentless’: Sergeant Cato

III Assault Squad ‘Honour Seekers’: Sergeant Cassius

IV Assault Squad ‘Resolute’: Sergeant Amatius

V Assault Squad ‘Death’s Blades’: Sergeant Crispus

VI Assault Squad ‘Iron Resolve’: Sergeant Menathus

VII Assault Squad ‘Liberators’: Sergeant Gracus

VIII Assault Squad ‘Swift Fury’: Sergeant Septimus

IX Assault Squad ‘Warpbane’: Sergeant Lucius

X Assault Squad ‘The Disciples’: Sergeant Metellus

Edited September 27, 2008 by Ferrus Manus

[brother varen]

i in no means meant to say that the work you put into the Castigators is ill thought or not original. I agree with you on the Castigators, I have a great apreciation of them. I apologize for any misunderstandings. I think that i am not wording my thoughts right. I am not that knowledgable in 40k fluff that you are so maybe this is i am not putting my thoughts right.

 

When i think of "Codex", I think of a set of rules or reactions to certain stituations that don't cover all variables to that situation. for example... the guidelines for use of deadly force that a police officer or solider have to follow when having to think of their surivial in a fire fight. If a child came running from around a corner carrying a gun, would you fire? Maybe i am thinking of codex in the wrong light. In my life experiences nothing is set in stone. guidelines and rules don't cover every situation. I hope this helps.

 

You are free to do what you want with the Castigators, I only meant that GW gave a new timeline that has many possiblities for the Castigators. :blush:

 

The tradition for the Battle sargent in the terminator squads, what is it?

[Tyrannicide]

Company III - The Lightbringers

 

Command Squad: Patriarchs

Brother Captain Sirius

Senior Sergeant Tarandas

Chaplain Argentus

Apothecary Gratus

Lexicanium Licinus (attached from Librarium)

I Tactical Squad Meridius: Revenants

II Tactical Squad Deiad: Illuminators

III Tactical Squad Solemnas: Descendants of Loscano

IV Tactical Squad Xerian: Vanquishers

V Tactical Squad Barrus: Scions of Baraquiel

VI Tactical Squad Hiberus: XXX

I Assault Squad Asprenus: Nightmares

II Assault Squad Torquatus: XXX

I Devastator Squad Asturias: Groundbreakers

II Devastator Squad Eclectus: Iron Guard

 

 

The sixth tactical squad and second assault squad will have names later, I just hadn't come up with anymore just yet. Anyways I'd like to start a complete overhaul of the Third Company's personal timeline, which will include some notable campaigns and events that the 'Lightbringers' have been involved in. In addition I will be creating a timeline of Captain Sirius. It will start with his life on Loscano and move further on into the time of being selected to lead the Third Company in the fires of combat, to finally the most recent battles he has lead the famed third in.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Darth Potato

[Commissar Molotov]

i in no means meant to say that the work you put into the Castigators is ill thought or not original. I agree with you on the Castigators, I have a great apreciation of them. I apologize for any misunderstandings. I think that i am not wording my thoughts right. I am not that knowledgable in 40k fluff that you are so maybe this is i am not putting my thoughts right.

 

When i think of "Codex", I think of a set of rules or reactions to certain stituations that don't cover all variables to that situation. for example... the guidelines for use of deadly force that a police officer or solider have to follow when having to think of their surivial in a fire fight. If a child came running from around a corner carrying a gun, would you fire? Maybe i am thinking of codex in the wrong light. In my life experiences nothing is set in stone. guidelines and rules don't cover every situation. I hope this helps.

 

You are free to do what you want with the Castigators, I only meant that GW gave a new timeline that has many possiblities for the Castigators. :blush:

 

The tradition for the Battle sargent in the terminator squads, what is it?

 

:)

 

I get where you're coming from, now. Codex Astartes and Codex: Space Marines has confused me a little bit. And I'm sorry if I seemed like a dick in my last post! :) Whilst you might not consider yourself 'knowledgeable', I think you've done great things in asking questions and provoking thought. So don't be too hard on yourself! :)

 

As for the Codex, everyone has their own interpretation. I think people tend to have a somewhat negative view of the Codex because they think Guilliman was responsible for hampering the Legions. Just as the Ultramarines get hate, so does the Codex. This is a really important thread - check it out (especially my reply down near the bottom.)

 

Master Jeridian makes a good point when he says this:

 

Think of the Codex Astartes as the Wikipedia of the Space Marine Chapters. A vast text proclaimed to be a font of knowledge, that's actually full of contradicting and inaccurate opinions and notes.

 

I don't think that the Codex is necessarily restrictive. Guilliman's text was designed to be comprehensive, to aid the Space Marines. And certain Chapters do see the Codex as a guide, whilst others see it more as a sacred text. It was always said that the Black Consuls were fanatical about the Codex, and that's one of the reasons I chose them as the parent Chapter of the Castigators. The idea was that their ferocious zeal had been... transferred sideways, into their zeal for genetic purity over doctrinal purity.

 

As for the Terminators, the idea was that the four Terminator Sergeants are allowed to take the title 'Battle-Sergeant'. I don't know where it came from, but it sounds cool. ;)

 

I'd like to start a complete overhaul of the Third Company's personal timeline, which will include some notable campaigns and events that the 'Lightbringers' have been involved in. In addition I will be creating a timeline of Captain Sirius, starting with his life on Loscano and moving further on into the time of being selected to lead the Third Company in the fires of combat, to finally the most recent battles he has lead the famed third in.

 

Sounds good to me - get started and we can discuss it. :)

 

EDIT:

 

 

Cpt Tiberius says:

I still need to come up with something for Malus

Molotov says:

You said before that Malus was quite heavily bionic?

Cpt Tiberius says:

yes, from his days as a devastator marine, had a malfunction with his plasma cannon (hit by enemy fire) and it exploded wounding him severly, but not enough for transplant to dreadnought. him right arm, leg, and side of his face are heavily scarred and augmented

Molotov says:

Nice. Interesting, also, in a Chapter that prizes the purity of flesh. it's somewhat like the opposite of an Iron Hand - a Marine that detests his own augmentations

Cpt Tiberius says:

yes he has a "tense relation" with some of the more fanatical captains. he is torn by his distaste of his ruined body and his service to the chapter. he hates what he is, but knows he has to be what he is to keep serving the emperor. he is conflicted and dour.

Molotov says:

Very grimdark

Molotov says:

I approve!

Cpt Tiberius says:

grouchy old man, like me

Molotov says:

Perhaps a little callous...? The sheer destructive potential of the devastators appeals to him

Cpt Tiberius says:

yes, he is a respected leader, but not neccesarily "Adored" by his troops, a bit of a task master always pushing them to be better

Molotov says:

I like him, though. He certainly seems interesting. The Castigators are such a cheery bunch

Cpt Tiberius says:

lol

Cpt Tiberius says:

well he secretly collects teapots...?

Edited September 27, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Commissar Molotov]

Two interesting quotes from the new Codex:

 

In addition to his Chapter rank, each Captain also bears one or more honorific titles associated with the command of a particular company or responsibility. Some, such as Master of the Watch and Master of the Recruits, are common titles in use across almost all Space Marines Chapters. Other titles are products of Chapter history and creed.

 

Although the Codex describes a number of ranks and responsibilities within the headquarters staff, only a very few of these officers actually accompany the Chapter to war. Many are non-combatants of advanced years whose roles are to find and train recruits or administrate the Chapter, other titles are borne by the Chapter's Captains. Some ranks described by the Codex include the Chapter's Ancient, the Chapter Master's Secretarius, the Lord of the Household, the Chapter's Armourer, the Master of the Fleet, Victuallers, the Master of the Arsenal, Master of Recruits and Master of the Watch.

 

And then there's this quote from the Apocalypse rulebook:

 

The title of a Space Marine Master varies according to duty and from Chapter to Chapter. Only the strictest of Codex Chapters use the sanctioned titles - others use ranks and honours drawn from an honoured history spanning thousands of years. The Blood Angels fleet commander, for example, is entitled 'Lord of the Angelic Host' whilst the Space Wolves commander responsible for recruits is known as 'Father of the Unblooded'. Despite the variation in nomenclature, there is little divergence in responsibility - it is one of the doctrines in the Codex Astartes that has been adopted by all.

 

It's interesting that Captain Sicarius is Master of the Watch (as Second Company Captain) but also Knight Champion of Macragge, Grand Duke of Talassar and High Suzerain of Ultramar. Eventually I'd like to incorporate some more titles into the Captains of the Castigators.

 

But I'm curious: What are the responsibilities of the 'Chapter Master's Secretarius'? the 'Lord of the Household'? or the 'Armourer'? Wouldn't the Armourer be a Techmarine? I'm certainly interested in the structure of the Master's Household - the closest thing we have to a guide would be the Ultramarines overview in the Third Edition Codex. Still, input and thoughts would be welcome here.

 

I've also been working a little on the Howling Stars. I imagine it to be an area of a dozen systems or so - a sub-sector in size. The area was once the domain of the Ryssith, but Baraquiel's efforts pushed them out. The warp currents across the Howling Stars are occasionally prone to periods of great turbulence. Warp storms strike without warning and rage unabated, causing vessels to be spat out of the warp at random or to endure violent journeys. I imagine that the systems of the Stars have been settled since the Ryssith were ejected. I also wanted there to be a Forgeworld within the Stars - preliminary discussion has led to this Forgeworld being entitled 'Goliath' or some variant thereof, because I like the idea of a 'Goliath-Pattern Rhino' or the like. The Castigators don't constrain their operations to the Howling Stars, and have travelled across the Ultima Segmentum on occasions in their history.

 

I did imagine that the troublesome warp conditions and the somewhat vulnerable nature of the systems across the Howling Stars might make them tempting targets for Dark Eldar pirates, which could prove interesting.

[Heru]

But I'm curious: What are the responsibilities of the 'Chapter Master's Secretarius'? the 'Lord of the Household'? or the 'Armourer'? Wouldn't the Armourer be a Techmarine? I'm certainly interested in the structure of the Master's Household - the closest thing we have to a guide would be the Ultramarines overview in the Third Edition Codex. Still, input and thoughts would be welcome here.

The Secretarius would just like a Secretary (administrative assistant) or a Secretary of State (responsible for foreign policy).

 

The Lord of the Household on the other hand would most likely be responsible for the Chapter's Serfs and the like - much like the Master of the Household in the UK Royal Household.

 

Now the Armourer would likely be in direct charge of the Chapters Artificiers (which notably probably aren't Techmarines because they focus solely on crafting / repairing weapons and armour) and arming Servitors (see Flight of the Eisenstein for the latter).

Edited September 27, 2008 by Heru Talon

[Commissar Molotov]

The Secretarius would just like a Secretary (administrative assistant) or a Secretary of State (responsible for foreign policy).

 

The Lord of the Household on the other hand would most likely be responsible for the Chapter's Serfs and the like - much like the Master of the Household in the UK Royal Household.

 

Now the Armourer would likely be in direct charge of the Chapters Artificiers (which notably probably aren't Techmarines because they focus solely on crafting / repairing weapons and armour) and arming Servitors (see Flight of the Eisenstein for the latter).

 

Have the grace to put a "In my opinion..." at the start of your post! :)

 

Still, you raise many pertinent points and ideas.

 

Secretarius: Although we might perhaps a perjorative view of a 'Secretary', it's perhaps true that the Chapter Master might have an administrative assistant of some kind. What would their role be, though? The Chief Victualler would presumably be in charge of supplies and the like. I do think of Jurgen from the Ciaphas Cain series - how he's responsible for filtering Cain's correspondence to ensure his time is spent efficiently. Hrm.

 

Lord of the Household: Very good idea. A liason between the serfs and the Space Marines would work. I'd have to look at the Royal Family's Master of the Household to find some inspiration. Still, that's good. I was thinking about the Serfs, actually, that there would be a number of different castes, almost - with a fierce rivalry between them, and ancient and bewildering traditions that might bemuse the Marines. Having a Marine that can liase with them is good - after all, psykers would have to be rooted out of the serf populations, too. (I imagine that there would be both male and female serfs, a breeding population. They would live on the Sanctuary, but the Space Marines wouldn't recruit from them. Depending on peoples' opinions, I might make it so that the Castigators take exceptional recruits from the Serfs, it would be a great honour, and they might be seen differently among the Chapter. That could be interesting.)

 

Armourer: Whilst I was aware that the artificers wouldn't be Techmarines, it's interesting to suggest that it would be a Marine in charge of the Artificers. I'd have thought he would be a Techmarine working for the Master of the Forge, though. My other thought was that he was a Marine responsible for the Chapter Master's weaponry and wargear - responsible for armouring the Master. I was unsure, though.

[Heru]

Have the grace to put a "In my opinion..." at the start of your post! :)

The same to you Molotov.

they're arguably the best DIY in the Liber (if not the 40k community)

I am already annoyed with Mat Ward over his blatant "Ultramarines are the greatest ever!", I don't want to also be annoyed with you. ;)

 

 

Secretarius: Although we might perhaps a perjorative view of a 'Secretary', it's perhaps true that the Chapter Master might have an administrative assistant of some kind. What would their role be, though? The Chief Victualler would presumably be in charge of supplies and the like. I do think of Jurgen from the Ciaphas Cain series - how he's responsible for filtering Cain's correspondence to ensure his time is spent efficiently. Hrm.

Virtually every position of authority within an organization has some form of administrative assistant, it's not hard to think that the same could be said of the Astartes.

 

 

Lord of the Household: Very good idea. A liason between the serfs and the Space Marines would work. I'd have to look at the Royal Family's Master of the Household to find some inspiration. Still, that's good. I was thinking about the Serfs, actually, that there would be a number of different castes, almost - with a fierce rivalry between them, and ancient and bewildering traditions that might bemuse the Marines. Having a Marine that can liase with them is good - after all, psykers would have to be rooted out of the serf populations, too. (I imagine that there would be both male and female serfs, a breeding population. They would live on the Sanctuary, but the Space Marines wouldn't recruit from them. Depending on peoples' opinions, I might make it so that the Castigators take exceptional recruits from the Serfs, it would be a great honour, and they might be seen differently among the Chapter. That could be interesting.)

Depending on the Chapter it's not hard to believe that maybe in some Chapters the position of Lord of the Household would taken up a regular Human from the ranks of the Chapter Serfs.

Edited September 27, 2008 by Heru Talon

[Ferrus Manus]

Depending on the Chapter it's not hard to believe that maybe in some Chapters the position of Lord of the Household would taken up a regular Human from the ranks of the Chapter Serfs.

But, in my opinion ;) this wouldn't work with the Castigators or any other marine chapter. The serfs are the chapter's, one could almost say, slaves - akin to the state of the serfs in Tsarist Russia. The astartes would want to remind the serfs that they are in charge and hold power over them. One such way of doing this could be to have the Lord of the Household as an astartes, as a physical reminder.

[Commissar Molotov]

they're arguably the best DIY in the Liber (if not the 40k community)

 

'arguably' means 'may or may not'. :lol: As we don't know anything about the Master of the Household, the Secretarius and the like, we can't say "They are...", only "It's likely they are..." - there are no certainties here.

 

Depending on the Chapter it's not hard to believe that maybe in some Chapters the position of Lord of the Household would taken up a regular Human from the ranks of the Chapter Serfs.

But, in my opinion :D this wouldn't work with the Castigators or any other marine chapter. The serfs are the chapter's, one could almost say, slaves - akin to the state of the serfs in Tsarist Russia. The astartes would want to remind the serfs that they are in charge and hold power over them. One such way of doing this could be to have the Lord of the Household as an astartes, as a physical reminder.

 

I'm not sure that the serfs would be 'slaves'. There was an interesting thread in Amicus a few weeks ago about the serfs - I think they're servants, but not slaves. William King's novels showed the serfs crewing the Space Wolves' vessels, and they seemed to enjoy a relatively decent existence. Whilst the Castigators are arrogant and bigoted in the extreme, they don't seem to believe that they are inherently better than unaugmented humans, so I don't think they would enjoy being cruel to the Serfs for the sake of it.

 

Plus, ignorance is bliss - if they've never known anything else, they probably wouldn't object to their lives as servants of the Astartes. They would hold their own traditions, celebrations and the like, so it wouldn't be ceaseless, unending toil.

[Ferrus Manus]

Plus, ignorance is bliss - if they've never known anything else, they probably wouldn't object to their lives as servants of the Astartes. They would hold their own traditions, celebrations and the like, so it wouldn't be ceaseless, unending toil.

Perhaps. Looking at them from this angle reminds me of the Helots of Sparta. Maybe it would be useful to take a look at them.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Ferrus Manus

[Commissar Molotov]

I must confess that my knowledge of classical civilisations is quite limited. I don't know much about Helots, but google's helped sate my curiosity. :) The Helots are very interesting, actually - though the Spartans certainly did treat them exceedingly badly! With that said, they did keep their own traditions and the like - so I can see where you're coming from.

 

Warriors of Ultramar suggests that the Mortifactors have around nine thousand serfs. A huge number, but it just shows the logistical challenge of running a Space Marine Chapter.

 

Those of you with the Dark Heresy rulebook (I know Nash Trickster has one...) will remember the section on the Misericord, a giant space vessel that plies the Calixis Sector. The crew is divided into dozens of castes. There's castes like the Scoruhand Brotherhood, the Company of Imbeciles, the Lamplighter's Guild, the Followers of the Wire and the Suturer's Parliament. The book says: 'All have their own baffling traditions, from the large wood and paper animal masks of the Obeyer's Guild to the ritual removal of an ear from every member of the Enginists... the oficers of the Misericrod form their own caste and wear distinctive and rather sinister masks to mark them out from the rest of the crew...'

 

I like the idea of rituals and traditions that the Castigators themselves just find bizarre. They have little time or patience for them, so leave the serfs largely to themselves. That said, the Master of the Household would be responsible to ensure that there is no recidivism going on, and that there are no latent psykers within the serf population.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Commissar Molotov

[Marshal Rohr]

I think the Serfs having there own culture, it would shuffle them more toward helots and take them away from being civilians who work for the chapter in exchange for the privilege of continuing living. I think this would add depth to the Chapter as a whole, because it shows that to make the Castigators be successful they require normal people. Just my opinion though.

[Zed Alpha]

You could put things past M41. They'd be hypothetical, but valid for you. Just don't go too far, say, not past the first century or two.

[Commissar Molotov]

You could put things past M41. They'd be hypothetical, but valid for you. Just don't go too far, say, not past the first century or two.

 

...?

 

Which post are you responding to?

[brother varen]

How do the Castigators treat or look at their serfs? I believe you said at one time that the Castigators have nothing to due with their homeworld except to police it for pyskers and mutants. Do the castigators interact with the serfs? What about the different factions with the chapter (zealots and moderates), do they treat serfs differently?

 

I think you also stated that the chapter serfs were trained to Imperial guard standards to better help repel boarding actions. So, this would indecate that the marines have some dealings with serfs.

 

Now, who are the serfs? Are they inducted (shanghied) by the chapter or are they failed aspiriants? Is there a destinction between the two factions of serfs? Are only the failed aspiriants the only ones allowed to hold positions of responsiblity within the chapter? Maybe a failed aspiriant would hold the position of Lord of the household? Now aspiriants who fail the implantation of the glands needed to change them to space marines, they would fail at different stages of implantation. So, would this alao cause a caste system within the serfs?

 

In my opinion, I belive that the position of "Lord of the Household" would be a failed aspiriant who failed at the last stages of implantation. This way, he would travel between the worlds of both space marine and chapter serf. Would make logical sense and an interesting character. :)

 

now if you use this idea, think of the culture, beiliefs, and traditions that would differ within the serf population. :no:

 

This is of course, if you wish to use a caste system for the chapter serfs. I kind of like this idea, but it is your chapter and your choice.

[Barret]

For the Master's Secretarius, I was reading Charles Stross' Atrocity Archives, and one of the characters claimed that the root of "secretary" was "secret". As in a keeper or guardian of secrets.

 

Wikipedia gives the etymology of "secretary" as:

 

The term is derived from the Latin word secernere, "to distinguish" or "to set apart," the passive participle (secretum) meaning "having been set apart," with the eventual connotation of something private or confidential. A secretarius was a person, therefore, overseeing business confidentially, usually for a powerful individual (a king, pope, etc).

 

Perhaps that could be of some help?

 

 

 

As for the Serfs, the model I've been working on for the T-Swords is that they're a distinct, self-sustaining population that are the descendants of the original Serfs from the Founding. They have little to no contact with the natives of the Chapter's homeworld, and are not regarded as a viable source of recruits.

 

That said, the serfs could be taken from a homeworld or recruiting world (failed aspirants) to supplement their population. Perhaps children who are almost but not quite good enough to become aspirants could be inducted. Or maybe they're a lot of re-educated criminals, or something.

[brother varen]

Mol, have you a timeline for the Castigators? I need any info for the 2nd company that you have already made. Trying to create events/ battles for the 2nd company. When was Captain Caphius made captain of the 2nd? When was he promoted to full marine status from the scout company? How long has he been captain of the 2nd? How many other 2nd company captains were there?

What was the founding date of the Castigators?

 

Questions on modeling Castigators:

 

Would the Castigators use the Black Templar chained weapon arms?

 

What about Dark Angel robes or Black Templar tabards?

 

Would any bits from the Dark Angel or Black Templar frames stand out to you as being used by the Castigators?

[Zed Alpha]

You could put things past M41. They'd be hypothetical, but valid for you. Just don't go too far, say, not past the first century or two.

Sorry, I only check this site about once or twice a day...

[Swordlord]

The Secretarius would just like a Secretary (administrative assistant) or a Secretary of State (responsible for foreign policy).

 

The Lord of the Household on the other hand would most likely be responsible for the Chapter's Serfs and the like - much like the Master of the Household in the UK Royal Household.

 

Now the Armourer would likely be in direct charge of the Chapters Artificiers (which notably probably aren't Techmarines because they focus solely on crafting / repairing weapons and armour) and arming Servitors (see Flight of the Eisenstein for the latter).

 

Have the grace to put a "In my opinion..." at the start of your post! :D

 

Still, you raise many pertinent points and ideas.

 

Secretarius: Although we might perhaps a perjorative view of a 'Secretary', it's perhaps true that the Chapter Master might have an administrative assistant of some kind. What would their role be, though? The Chief Victualler would presumably be in charge of supplies and the like. I do think of Jurgen from the Ciaphas Cain series - how he's responsible for filtering Cain's correspondence to ensure his time is spent efficiently. Hrm.

 

Lord of the Household: Very good idea. A liason between the serfs and the Space Marines would work. I'd have to look at the Royal Family's Master of the Household to find some inspiration. Still, that's good. I was thinking about the Serfs, actually, that there would be a number of different castes, almost - with a fierce rivalry between them, and ancient and bewildering traditions that might bemuse the Marines. Having a Marine that can liase with them is good - after all, psykers would have to be rooted out of the serf populations, too. (I imagine that there would be both male and female serfs, a breeding population. They would live on the Sanctuary, but the Space Marines wouldn't recruit from them. Depending on peoples' opinions, I might make it so that the Castigators take exceptional recruits from the Serfs, it would be a great honour, and they might be seen differently among the Chapter. That could be interesting.)

 

Armourer: Whilst I was aware that the artificers wouldn't be Techmarines, it's interesting to suggest that it would be a Marine in charge of the Artificers. I'd have thought he would be a Techmarine working for the Master of the Forge, though. My other thought was that he was a Marine responsible for the Chapter Master's weaponry and wargear - responsible for armouring the Master. I was unsure, though.

 

Perhaps you could use the title Steward, as their specialty is handling the day-to-day logistics of a household.

[brother varen]

In the Castigators long history, have they developed any specialities? For example, armoured assualt, seige, ect.

 

On the 2nd company's strike cruiser, do the non-marine crew rotate out or do they serve till death? I can't imagine Caphius working with a rotating ship crew. :D

 

The armour assortment for the 2nd company should be mk 4, mk 6, mk 7, and some mk 8? Do the Castigators use any older marks of vehicles? What is the oldest mark of vehicle that the Castigators have? Any specialized vehicles? What about marks of dreadnoughts?

[Ferrus Manus]

What was the founding date of the Castigators?

We're unsure simply because we have no canon date for the 14th Founding.

In the Castigators long history, have they developed any specialities? For example, armoured assualt, seige, ect.

They're Codex Astartes so they would be proficient in all types of warfare not favouring one over another. But what they do specialize in is no running away :tu:

The armour assortment for the 2nd company should be mk 4, mk 6, mk 7, and some mk 8? Do the Castigators use any older marks of vehicles? What is the oldest mark of vehicle that the Castigators have? Any specialized vehicles? What about marks of dreadnoughts?

I'd expect that it would be the same with the armour, mostly newer marks with the ocassional older mark, however it would be slightly less os with the vehicles I'd imagine.

 

Hope that helps. I'll leave the rest to Mol.

[brother varen]

Mol, are you sure that the captain model from the Black Reach box set is the best choice for Captain Caphius? It looks okay, but doesn't stand out to much like your Captain Anteas model. I'm trying to look at different models to find the right parts. Just trying to make it stand out.

 

How is the Castigator website going? Trying to get a timeline going for the 2nd company. That is when i get a chance. Is the 5th company the only ones to have contact with the Tau empire? Are they the only ones to travel outside Segmentum Tempestus? That is where their world is located, right? Or, are they located in the ultima Segmentum? With everything going on around me, it is hard to focus.

 

Thanks, Ferrus. it does help.

Edited October 6, 2008 by brother varen

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Very nice IA, Commissar Molotov! I can't be reading twenty-some pages of stuff, but I can see you're putting a lot more work into it than your IA. This one really stands out, in my opinion.

 

I like the connection between the 13th Founding and the purity-obsessed feel of your description of the 14th Founding.

 

I love your illustrations. Someday... someday my IA will be graced with something so lovely.

 

The continued theme of obsession with purity really brings the IA together as well. Everything from their Founding to the home planet they chose and its conflicts to the broader scheme where they have conflicts and praises from the Imperium is excellent.

 

I also have to comment that I really like the struggle they have with their unyielding faith in the Emperor and the potential heresy they see in the Mechanicus' beliefs and, by association, their own brothers via Techmarines.

 

I was wondering if the moon on which Sanctuary is situated had a name? Does it have any significance with the populace, either dark- or light side? Is anything else known about the light-siders? Hate to pry, but as my Chapter has no homeworld (anymore), I'm interested in how people who have Chapters with them describe them. Leads to more questions on my part.

 

You've also inspired me to change my IA a bit. Thanks for the continued inspiration. :lol: Again, awesome job!

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, a lot for me to work through!

 

How do the Castigators treat or look at their serfs? I believe you said at one time that the Castigators have nothing to due with their homeworld except to police it for pyskers and mutants. Do the castigators interact with the serfs? What about the different factions with the chapter (zealots and moderates), do they treat serfs differently?

 

I think you also stated that the chapter serfs were trained to Imperial guard standards to better help repel boarding actions. So, this would indecate that the marines have some dealings with serfs.

 

Now, who are the serfs? Are they inducted (shanghied) by the chapter or are they failed aspiriants? Is there a destinction between the two factions of serfs? Are only the failed aspiriants the only ones allowed to hold positions of responsiblity within the chapter? Maybe a failed aspiriant would hold the position of Lord of the household? Now aspiriants who fail the implantation of the glands needed to change them to space marines, they would fail at different stages of implantation. So, would this alao cause a caste system within the serfs?

 

In my opinion, I belive that the position of "Lord of the Household" would be a failed aspiriant who failed at the last stages of implantation. This way, he would travel between the worlds of both space marine and chapter serf. Would make logical sense and an interesting character. ;)

 

now if you use this idea, think of the culture, beiliefs, and traditions that would differ within the serf population. ;)

 

This is of course, if you wish to use a caste system for the chapter serfs. I kind of like this idea, but it is your chapter and your choice.

 

-> To a degree, I think the Castigators take their serfs for granted. I would think that the majority of Space Marines do, too. There may be times where the Space Marines and their serfs get closer (Garro and his Housecarl, for example.) such as when a particularly skilled artificer might be tasked with modifying a Marine's armour. I don't think that the Castigators would actively mistreat their serfs, though. For the most part, however, I would think that the two groups don't interact that much. As to the different factions, I don't want to generalise.

 

-> I do think that those Serfs that would be in combat (naval crews, etc.) would be trained to be roughly equivalent with better Guard regiments. The Serfs would be inducted into the Chapter Cult (or something that closely parallels it) and would have high-quality equipment and the backing of their Masters. They'd be a fearsome prospect in a boarding action, even if they're not the equal of the Space Marines.

 

-> Much like Barret mentions earlier, my idea is that the Serfs are a self-sustaining population in the Sanctuary. I don't think a Chapter like the Castigators can allow failed aspirants to stick around. Genetic purity, after all - I need to emphasise the darker sides of the Castigators somewhere. I think such aspirants would be servitorised. I know it disregards a bunch of your ideas regarding the Lord of the Household and a caste system as a result of physical development, but I have reasons for it. My plan was that there would be a caste system, but one built around profession.

 

For example, you would have the artificers, responsible for maintaining and embellishing weaponry and equipment. The fleet, subdivided further (gunners, etc.) You'd have Tech-Adepts inititated into the lower levels of the Machine Cult. The scribes that aid the Librarians, those within the Chapels that care for relics, maintain the vaults of the dead and the chapels themselves; the assistants within the Apothecarion. You might have the Strategicians/Lex-mechanics and the like that would calculate strategies in order to aid officers. The Arbitrators/Proctors that would police the serf population for trouble, sedition, witchery and rebellion. I imagine the Master of the Household would be responsible for maintaining order, settling disputes and approving marriages, too. It's a seperate society that bears the weight of the Chapter upon its back.

 

Life for the Chapter Serfs would be hard, demanding, perhaps comparable to that of a hive manufactorum worker. Unlike ah iver city, though, the Serf Halls are not host to violent gangers squabbling over territory. The Serfs are loyal and disciplined, devoting their life-work to their genetically-enhanced overlords. I think they would prize duty, honour and obligation. In the main, Serfs would undertake skilled work - tasks like sweeping floors could easily be accomplished by servitors!

 

I think the life of a Serf is different to that of an Imperial citizen because, like the Castigators, they wouldn't be entered into the Imperial cult. They'd be entered into the Chapter Cult (or a pseudo-Chapter Cult) and many of them would be educated (as educated as their job required them to be.) They would have lives, they would have a lot of comfort and security, and the best home defence money can buy. ;)

 

FAs for the Serfs, the model I've been working on for the T-Swords is that they're a distinct, self-sustaining population that are the descendants of the original Serfs from the Founding. They have little to no contact with the natives of the Chapter's homeworld, and are not regarded as a viable source of recruits.

 

That said, the serfs could be taken from a homeworld or recruiting world (failed aspirants) to supplement their population. Perhaps children who are almost but not quite good enough to become aspirants could be inducted. Or maybe they're a lot of re-educated criminals, or something.

 

I have very similar ideas. The Castigators that were founded under Baraquiel needed some form of Serf force, so when they arrived at Losanco they would've stuck around. My Serfs are sulf-sustaining, too. As to not being a viable source of recruits... part of me wants to say that they might be. Perhaps there may occasionally be some form of tournament where the children of Serfs could, if they wished, attempt to join. They were be an incredibly small majority, though, but it might be cool backstory for the occasional Marine within the Chapter to be 'serf-born'.

 

The other thing I was thinking is that there might be famous Serf families, families where particularly reknowned artificers come from or the like. Perhaps you could have several generations of the same family serving as aides for a particular Commander or the like. Just something to think about.

 

 

Mol, have you a timeline for the Castigators? I need any info for the 2nd company that you have already made. Trying to create events/ battles for the 2nd company. When was Captain Caphius made captain of the 2nd? When was he promoted to full marine status from the scout company? How long has he been captain of the 2nd? How many other 2nd company captains were there?

What was the founding date of the Castigators?

 

Questions on modeling Castigators:

 

Would the Castigators use the Black Templar chained weapon arms?

 

What about Dark Angel robes or Black Templar tabards?

 

Would any bits from the Dark Angel or Black Templar frames stand out to you as being used by the Castigators?

 

There are a number of timelines for the Castigators, but none that are complete. What do you need, specifically? I can attempt to help you out. Plus, if you posted some of your ideas, we can all discuss them - that's what we did for other Companies like the third.

 

Caphius is the oldest Captain in the Chapter, and I imagine him to be somewhere between 400 and 500. He would, accordingly, have been Captain of the Second for something between 200-350 years, something like that. As to how many other Second Company Captains there've been... you have to remember I'm hampered because I don't know when the Castigators were founded. If you were to assume that an average Captain serves for something like 100 years, then there could be anything up to 80 previous Captains. The only one that matters, of course, is Lycidius, who served as Second Company Captain during M37.

 

Some of the zealots might use the chained weapon arms. The ones that aren't distinctively Templar, anyway. They do it for a different reason, though - it's not so they can't lose their weapon, but rather to symbolise how the Astartes are bound to their duty. I've never really seen the Castigators wearing Tabards, though. The only Castigators to wear robes are the Techmarines - some of them wear robes of black to cover their bionics.

 

In the Castigators long history, have they developed any specialities? For example, armoured assualt, seige, ect.

 

On the 2nd company's strike cruiser, do the non-marine crew rotate out or do they serve till death? I can't imagine Caphius working with a rotating ship crew. :yuck:

 

The armour assortment for the 2nd company should be mk 4, mk 6, mk 7, and some mk 8? Do the Castigators use any older marks of vehicles? What is the oldest mark of vehicle that the Castigators have? Any specialized vehicles? What about marks of dreadnoughts?

 

The Castigators adhere to the Codex Astartes broadly, with only slight deviations. Their 'specialities' are mental for the most part. They're ferociously devoted, only retreating in the most dire of situations. Captain Caphius may favour a more direct form of action, and this may lead to flamers having great use, but they operate within the bounds of the Codex.

 

I don't imagine that the crew of the Inviolate would rotate, no. In part because of the Caste culture. I imagine the ship crews would be quite competitive.

 

They're Codex Astartes so they would be proficient in all types of warfare not favouring one over another. But what they do specialize in is no running away ;)

 

Barret pointed this quote out to me on MSN - it amused him a great deal. :)

 

 

Mol, are you sure that the captain model from the Black Reach box set is the best choice for Captain Caphius? It looks okay, but doesn't stand out to much like your Captain Anteas model. I'm trying to look at different models to find the right parts. Just trying to make it stand out.

 

How is the Castigator website going? Trying to get a timeline going for the 2nd company. That is when i get a chance. Is the 5th company the only ones to have contact with the Tau empire? Are they the only ones to travel outside Segmentum Tempestus? That is where their world is located, right? Or, are they located in the ultima Segmentum? With everything going on around me, it is hard to focus.

 

Thanks, Ferrus. it does help.

 

If you want to use another model, feel free! I only suggested the Black Reach Captain because he seems markedly similar to Caphius. If you're not happy with him, you don't have to feel bound to that. In some ways it's not suitable - not least because he's going to be very common these days.

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/Caphius.jpg

 

I think as long as you're broadly consistent with the artwork, you're allowed to do what you want. I did have some thoughts with the Pedro Kantor rules - rename 'Orbital Bombardment' to 'Wrath of the Inviolate' and it might fit Caphius more, calling down cleansing orbital fire from the Second Company's Strike Cruiser. (EDIT: And his Iron Halo could easily represent the Hero's Mantle.)

 

I always thought this picture of Invictus fit well with Caphius, too:

 

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z121/mnesimache/Castigators/Caphius1.jpg

 

The 4th Company is the primary Company to've fought the Tau - any contact the other Battle Companies may have had would be very limited. I'd like to say that the Fifth have never fought the Tau, but I have a Tau player in my circle. That's because I try not to jump on the bandwagon, and I don't think Space Marine Chapters are going to lurch across the galaxy. Equally, the Castigators have had no recorded contacts with the Necrons (as yet). The Howling Stars are in the Ultima Segmentum, and whilst the Castigators wouldn't confine their operations to the Howling Stars, most of their campaigns would be relatively close to them.

 

Very nice IA, Commissar Molotov! I can't be reading twenty-some pages of stuff, but I can see you're putting a lot more work into it than your IA. This one really stands out, in my opinion.

 

I like the connection between the 13th Founding and the purity-obsessed feel of your description of the 14th Founding.

 

I love your illustrations. Someday... someday my IA will be graced with something so lovely.

 

The continued theme of obsession with purity really brings the IA together as well. Everything from their Founding to the home planet they chose and its conflicts to the broader scheme where they have conflicts and praises from the Imperium is excellent.

 

I also have to comment that I really like the struggle they have with their unyielding faith in the Emperor and the potential heresy they see in the Mechanicus' beliefs and, by association, their own brothers via Techmarines.

 

I was wondering if the moon on which Sanctuary is situated had a name? Does it have any significance with the populace, either dark- or light side? Is anything else known about the light-siders? Hate to pry, but as my Chapter has no homeworld (anymore), I'm interested in how people who have Chapters with them describe them. Leads to more questions on my part.

 

You've also inspired me to change my IA a bit. Thanks for the continued inspiration. :P Again, awesome job!

 

Thanks for your feedback! I certainly appreciate it. I know this thread can be intimidating to enter, with us Castigator fanboys arguing over the minutiae of things that perplex and bemuse outsiders, but still. :) Hopefully you'll stick around! Also, there's no 'prying'. Your questions help me because by having to defend and expound upon my ideas, they get tested. The less-resilient ideas eventually fall by the wayside and are replaced by stronger ones. So it's all good!

 

I've never thought to give the moon a name. I imagine 'Sanctuary' is a term originally derived from those Losancans inducted into the Chapter. I don't think Baraquiel would've called it 'Sanctuary' - for him the only true Sanctuary was faith in the Emperor! So yes, I think there would be some significance with the dark-siders, because if nothing else, it's a primary source of illumination, however dim.

 

There will eventually be further work done on the light-siders, which'll go on to detail the planet more. At the moment, they're gribbly, shambling mutants, and that;s all that matters! I think homeworlds open up a lot of problems for a DIY Chapter, as they add a lot of 'baggage'. They should be done well or not at all - and I think personally that too many DIYs utilise their homeworlds as a throwaway section, without giving sufficient importance to them. In the Castigators, however, it serves to mirror the themes inherent within the Chapter, so it works for me.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Commissar Molotov