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https://youtu.be/DUaR2Kiemu8 Cheers, Thoth

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Interestingly there are reports on FB that the fluff section mentions Custodes of both genders as does the name generator. Though its not been mentioned by anyone im confident has the book. I know a few of those folk read this forum and might be able to confirm? =][= ADMINISTRATOR NOTE =][= Note that this topic was originally about the possibility of females now being included in the Adeptus Custodes. A similar topic was started in the News, Rumors, and Board Announcements forum. The topics were merged and the title changed, reflecting the definite nature of the change.

I'm currently working on this squad of Sagittarum as a Christmas Gift to my pal. We're currently getting into Underworlds as a gaming group as a chilled and quick board game. Currently I'm the only one with any teams so I've managed to snag them all a team that fits into an army they already collect. As such I thought this Stormcast team would work well as a crossover unit for his Custodes, the Crossbows keep the Knightly-esoteric vibes his army has so far. The missus and I have also just adopted a dog so I'm mostly working on projects I can do at the kitchen table without a daylight lamp I usually have at my desk. They're currently very rough but the beginning stages usually are: I've found that GW's coloured plastic tends to not take Leadbelcher very well, it's quite irratating!

https://youtu.be/1QdVHg1kP30

The Ten Thousand, Guardians of the Emperor, each wrought by his own hand. Each of them a work of art, never to be repeated. There are those of their number who stand watch in the dark cells, others who safeguard those of import to the Imperium. Then there is the Adamantine Guard. They do not stand watch, they do not ward the Imperium from the safety of the Imperial palace. They actively seek the enemies of the Imperium, warding those who defend the Imperium in warzones uncounted, since the days of the Great Crusade. Clad in their armor of dark steel and gold, they strike with swiftness and brutality. They are the embodiment of the ancient Merican adage "The best defense, is a strong offense". A great number of them are Ephranoi, tasked with carrying out the most dire of Imperial sanction. They mete out death to all who would oppose the will of the Emperor and the Imperium of man. Though they are Ephranoi, they carry out their duties with a variety of wargear, from the Humble Adrathic Bolt Caliver to the massive Aquilon Terminator warplate. Among their number, the other chambers are represented, with many being from the Tharanatoi. It is the Sentinels of the few Hykanatoi who are most frequently seen by forces of the Imperium who are blessed by their appearance. The Venatari and Saggitarum move swiftly into positions to make optimal use of their skills, while Aquilon Terminator Sodalities will frequently strike deep in the heart of the enemy forces, or utilize the Coronus Grav-Carrier to drive deep into enemy formations before disembarking to eviscerate the enemy. They are an awesome force to behold, but due to their small number they are not a common sight. As a Shield Host they only number as one hundred warriors. They are the most aggressive of the Adeptus Custodes, each of them a veteran of Horus Heresy, from where their attitude originates. They are led by a Tribune, Theodosius Cato, who has commanded the Host for the last ten millennia. As their temperament makes them ill suited for defensive duties, they have occasionally been given leave to turn the tides of battle, but have most often served as most Ephranoi do, testing the defenses of the Imperial palace, but they have also been allowed to deploy to perform that function against critical garrisons, to ensure that the Defenders of the Imperium are up to snuff.

You may have expected Valdor to be wearing his usual golden armor. But not this time! We were asked to get him painted for use both as a showcase piece, and as a member of a Shadowkeepers force in Warhammer 40k. That's one of the reasons why his display base is removable, so he can be used in tabletop battles. See the additional photos to see the base removed and the model without the base, as well as additional angles and views on the model. And if you wonder about the blue and red lighting effects on the model, here's the explanation: After researching a bit about Shadowkeepers, Ańa decided to use two kinds and sources of light on the model. Red light coming from below, represented the demonic enemies. Valdor being in charge of troops keeping them in check would counter them with purity of Adeptus Custodes. This is the blue light coming from inside the collar of his armor and shining onto his face. This would also match some details of his armor and the force halberd. Hope it makes sense now And oh, somebody during the Warhammer Community Hobby Roundup mentioned how he reminds of Abaddon. Totally unexpected, but it turned out to be true! You can check it by yourselves. If you want to see more photos, they can bee seen here.

Hi, I'm RikuEru, I have mostly been a lurker and like-thrower in this subforum, mostly just posting in the Space Wolves Sub-forum. But... I want to do more than "just" Space Wolves, with the collection of 'other' (sub-)factions' minis "slowly" growing. So this'll be my little WIP thread, so I can keep track of my own work for once and get some magnificent feedback from the best people on B&C (that's you!) without being confined to a single sub-forum. I dare keep this first post as a "one day maybe" Register for various project posts I can link to within this thread, if the Mods allow me to do so!? (Someone smite me with his favourite Power-weapon if I ever forget to update this...)

1) Is it possible to take this requisition multiple times? 2) Is it possible to take one Stratagem multiple times? This may be stupid questions. I want to be sure though. Specifically I want to know if I can set up a Custodes crusade force with two Shield-Captains that each have "Victor of the blood games"/"Captain Commander" stratagem.

Just a disclaimer before I pose the question: I am a Dark Angel player with little experience how they play in 9th. The fact that the faction is so broken at the moment is the fact I don't play them. This could probably be a question posted in the Dark Angel forum, but this is more from the perspective of the Custodes. See above question. How would you go about designing a list to counter them? I got two lists where I'm running hurricane bolters on the bikes, lastrum storm bolters on the aquillon, a 5m allarus squad, etc etc. So quantity over quality. The other list is a full on high AP, high Damage list (so meltas, dreadspears, adrathic destructors). Which list would have the best chance of success? The other side of the equation is this: How would you play the mission if you were playing against a Dark Angel in a tournament? Would you charge them? Play the objective sorely? What secondaries would you choose. I'm legitimately stumped on what to do. Context: In my meta (which is competitive), there is a Dark Angel friend who plays a full Deathwing army. Custodes from my experience/understanding counter marines pretty well - I had nothing but success countering Blood Angels, Ultramarines, and the Chaos Space Marines with something close to a 80% winrate. But I seem to run into problems with Dark Angels and their bonkers transhuman rule. Most of my lists (provided below), run Aquillon with adrathic destructors, Achillus Dreadnoughts, Vertus Praetors. So things that have a lot of AP and D attached to them as a general rule. However when I tried that list against the Dark Angel player and in the tournament, I barely killed two models per turn, with something close to 40 attacks from the allarus, Achillus, and the shield captain. Which leaves me with the other 20 or so Deathwing Terminators to deal with, not that I can do anything about that, because after I attack, I'm dead. List ideas: Quantity > Quality list: Quality > Quantity list: Balanced list

So Custodes are rubbish competitively at the moment. We all know it. But more than that they feel weak compared to the power creep, and not really how they are depicted in fluff etc. Now we know of course that rules do not reflect the fluff (see space marine vs Imperial Guard stats ofc), however I believe that there is a lot that could be done to change up the way Custodes play in order to make them feel more Custodes. Thoughts - all units in army can cap objectives - all units take a massive points hike. yes up. - T6 and S6 baseline. 4++ baseline Ld 10 baseline, WS and BS 2+ - better negative modifiers to hit from range on Vexilla to provide some negation of instant wounds Roll SoS in as cheap troops and to act as Psyker cover with their null field Redefine them as each individual warrior being a lot harder to kill and a lot "killier" thoughts ? would it work? How would you make it work?

So here we go..... I wanted to do another Custodes test. I've used them a few times now and did batrep one of those games before the squad got sold. If you're curious and haven't seen it, the first Batrep with my GK army is here: LINK NOTE: Please excuse the large number of unpainted models. I sold the unit of Custodes and am working on my new squad. Sold a lot of DW so am now rebuilding them from scratch. Sorry for the unpainted stuff... I hate it too. The GAME: Maelstrom: Contact Lost (draw 1 Maelstrom card in T1, but you may only draw additional cards for every Objective you Control! ouch) The Armies (just the basics): Orks: This is a basic Wazdakka dual Bikstar list. Essentially we're talking two max sized Bike squads that become ObSec, both have Fists on multi characters, and both have Apothecary type save guys. The Wazdakka squad gets Skilled Rider as well. It's really a potent list and can do well at some tournaments. Especially if you haven't faced it before. He also had Mega Armoured Nobs in a trukk which is underrated, and annoying as heck. He had the 4+ save boyz in trucks, and 2 squads of Tank Bustas full of rocket launchers. Lots of junk to go with his bikers and armoured nobs, totaling something like 72 models I think.... Deathwatch: Here I take my basic BSSF + CAD. I am proxying an Imperial Bunker with Improved Comms to see if I can correct the horrible delays my army has had in recent games. I also have the Culexus, and a 5 man Squad of Custodes to go with my DW CAD Chaplain. (The idea being RAW that I can use the Terminator Captain's Beacon Angelis to teleport the Chaplain (attached to Custodes on the ground) to my location T1 if necessary.) The Custodes are Experiment number 1. Experiment number 2 comes from forcing myself to use a different load out for a Black Shield! Yes I have not been a fan of them, but I haven't tried one with an Axe and a CC weapon. So I plopped him with my Captain in a pod. NOTE: Until FAQ I'm still not using all Shotguns also have Bolter ruling. DEPLOYMENT + OPENING SALVO! + Orks win first turn deployment and opt for Night fight, and get it! (Not fun considering Jink + Night + Skilled Rider = 2+ cover saves on ObSec troops!) + I deploy my Bunker safely within my Zone and I put 5 Stalker Bolter guys in the bunker to secure it, and I plop that thing 3" away from a Marker to ensure (?) I get a card going forward.... My Culexus has no real target, so in this game he will play the wild card trouble maker. I deploy him near my bunker for now, beside an Assault Cannon Dreadnought. + I fail to steal the initiative. His first turn is fairly basic....he turbo's up everything. I kept the Custodes with the DW Chaplain and hold on for the firepower, but only 2 shots wound my Custodes and they laugh it off..... The good news is I don't give up First Blood. The bad news is he has total board control and outnumbers me more than 2-1 and he has blobs of ObSec all over the markers making it almost impossible for me to get cards in the future. +++ The Deathwatch wait patiently. The motive of the Beast is as obvious has his body odor. The Custodes lie in wait. Their time will come..... +++ + The massive wall of bikers and trukks all zoom full forward. (I can't fit it all in the picture. In some situations terrain forces some of his trukks to slow down.) + I draw a card that requires me to get an Objective in his backfield! A big challenge since it will definitely leave the Deathwatch on their own, unsupported but I need points. + I deployed my entire force on the table because of the army I ended up playing against... except for 2 pods. One was empty, one had my Termie Captain, and an Aquila including the Black Shield. I decide to go after the Objective in my T1 with this unit.... +++ It's a dire situation. I need to distract the horde and grab this objective. The Captain makes the call and the Pod is left unsupported, deep in the Ork back lines. +++ + The picture above paints a bleak picture. I did have the option of Beaconing over my Custodes and Chaplain but elected to do something else with the Custodes. The Captain's squad has no ObSec so I must blow away this Trukk full of Tank Bustas. Now they hurt Power Armour pretty badly so I elect to start with the Frag Cannons and Template them over and over, roasting the contents until the trukk is a burning pit of rotten green skin. Now the really bad part, because hey, it's Watch Master Prot, and things can never go off cleanly! The I still need to get one hullpoint off the trukk, he keeps making these stupid 6+ Nightfight saves. So I reluctantly fire off the Assault Cannon on the termie and I get my first 6! The explosion radius is also a 6! D'oh.... In the explosion I lose the front 3 guys.... the Frag Cannon included, and my Shotguns (I rolled 1,1,2 for saves.) .... and now I face an angry, smelly green horde... with no templates now. lol. + The Custodes decide to make things happen.... a massive cloud of bikes and trukks advance the ruins, and Storm Bolters fire them up and somehow kill 2 bikes! (Custodes mean business) +++ The Custodes use Hatred to full advantage. The Warlord Wazdakka bellows in disgust as he watches the Custodes hack down his entire Bike squad +++ + The Custodes perform way above my expectation. Even with FnP the bikes go down hard, and the Hatred re-rolls are quite punishing. The Shield Captain in particular is brutal, severing a Nob's bike in half, and lopping his head off with a backhand. He eyes Wazdakka up for the next round.... + I get one point for the objective, but I know a world of hurt is coming my way. Above the Bikes are dead, but now two full squads of Nobs rush my Custodes to get revenge.... The Custodes take wounds, but hold their ground. Things are slower now but the butchery is decidedly in the Custodes favour. Ork blood stains the ground, Wazdakka is destroyed. + Without breaking pace the Custodes continue to butcher the green horde to the degree I've never seen before.... Nob Fists do hit home this time, but at T5, and Eternal Warrior I make sure they only lose one model, and the rest hold on for dear life. Some are now wounded, but fight on with the Emperor's Will. + North of this butchery the scene is much more grim for Deathwatch.... +++ The Captain is alone. The vehicle explosion and 20 bike shots (snap firing) manage to take down another Deathwatch and a Terminator. The Ork Nobs run in, but the Black Shield exposes an ancient blade of hate, and attempts to protect the Captain.... +++ + I did try to thin the secondary biker unit, but I stood further away with my back line, and did not want to get overwhelmed so soon, I fired 12" shots, and he jinked, only losing a few bikes. The Dreadnought tried to help but the Jinks were really good, compounded with Feel No Pain. + The Bikers turn their attention to the Captain. The cowards see an easy kill... but after shooting down the Terminator the Mega Armoured Nobs figure this is an 'easy' job and bark at the bikes to turn around and face the Deathwatch front lines..... + The 3 Nobs rush into the captain, brandishing clunky fists that look like crude toasters mounted to forearms. The Captain steps up with his relic blade, and using his unique Warlord Trait (I have never rolled this one before) he ends up with Five Re-rolls. I use them all as this might be his swan song.... The Relic blade hits all, and wounds all with the assistance of Aquila rules.... BUT the crude looking Mega Armour passes all on a 2+. Going at the same time as the Nobs, the Black Shield thumbs the activator on his power Axe, and with 5 attacks he needs to use only one of the Warlord Trait dice, to get 5 hits! The Axe only wounds 3 times though, but this is enough to send two of the Nobs to their graves. (One Nob had a wound from over watch oddly enough.) But now all Nobs strike back, the first wound is taken by the Black Shield who instantly dies, the next 5 are taken by the Captain.... he fails his first Halo save and is killed outright. The Mega Armoured Nobs claim Warlord Kill, but as useless as the Captain was, the Black Shield took them down to one model.... + The Orks draw several cards, and are now clearly in the lead with on card coming up to kill a Bunker! We normally have a House rule: Any incompletable card from the start of the game, is a free discard, but since I actually has the bunker he had to keep it. Also the marker in front of the bunker was being contested by my ObSec Stalker Bolter crew.... speaking of which.... +++ Meanwhile on the Eastern Deathwatch front lines, all hell breaks lose. The Culexus breaks from the shadows as all other forces fail miserably. Can he hold the beast back long enough? +++ + The objective in front of the bunker is hotly contested and means points for both of us, but I haven't' been able to draw a single card for 2 turns! He is up 4 points to my 2 points and he is drawing up to his max of 6 cards a turn by just parking ObSec trukks on markers all over the table. + In this eastern line, I have an Aquila fail to do anything to the trukk in front of them. Now the desperate actions of the Stalker Bolter team in the bunker try and Fail as well to glance the AV10 trukk. + In pure desperation I force my Dreadnought to fire into the trukk with Assault Cannon and gets ONE glance that takes the Trukk down to a wreck. Wow. I couldn't believe how many 1's + 2's I rolled that entire turn. + Desperation reaches a new high as I must assault the Nob squad as they passed the pin check.... so my 2 Bikers (above) ignore terrain and we calculate I needed a 3 to assault the Nobs... Snake eyes! So I look at the Dread... he needs an 8, rolls a 7. Now I'm worried, I can't leave the bunker, so I throw the Culexus in... he makes it... + The Culexus goes first, and the Orks fail the fear test and are hitting on 5's anyway.... he hits about 8 times!!! The Culexus only hits 1 time, and fails to kill anything. The Culexus takes 5 wounds, fails all saves, dies outright. Wow. Thanks Assasinorium! Maybe send a guy with a smaller head next time so it doesn't get hit so easily!!! +++ The dire news of the state of the attack reaches the Custodes and the Chaplain. Instead of folding, they dig deeper and push even harder in the Ork lines. The Custodes' Guardian Spears effortlessly block 2 attacks adding insult to injury as they dice up another squad. +++ + The situation is very bleak. I draw my first card since Turn 1 (having even limited ObSec really blows) I am behind 5-2 but I can now grab an objective with my empty "ObSec" pod. I take the chance, and get a bullseye. + A remnant squad of Orks is running, along with a solo Nob Biker with FnP. He hopes to rally the Boyz with the Nob Biker and give them all Feel No Pain, but the Deathwatch Chaplain knows the beast all too well, and Pain will be Felt! He steers the Custodes into a multi assault, blowing up a Truk, while the Custodes dice up the rest of the Trukk Boyz and Nob Biker. + He still wants the objective #6 and my bunker. He gets his remaining squad of Tank Bustas up on a tower building and with S8 he needs to hit on 5's and then roll 6's on my bunker to glance.... he glances the bunker 3 times!!!! Wow. I have one hullpoint on it. I want to get the Stalker Bolters OUT of the Bunker but if I do (it's a back door) I lose the 3" I need to stop him from scoring a point he's been trying to get forever..... I stay inside, and fire all Stalkers at yet another ObSec Truck he has parked in front of the Bunker. I glance it to death. +I take an Aquila out of the ruins with a solo Cyclone Termie and mince this squad up which had wanted to assault me: +++ Split by indecision and typical faulty Xenos leadership, the thick headed Beast is ripped to shreds by the Deathwatch, but the Orks have another plan... +++ + The Orks are shot up badly above, even with Jink they are down to 3 Bikes, and all are Independent Characters. He drew a card needing 3 units in my zone, he splits these bikes up and rushes deep er in my zone to score 2 points.... Orks are now in a strong lead of 7-3. + Deathwatch forces are depleted, but I get to finally pull 3 cards. One for Objective 6 (in front of my bunker), one Primus DW card for killing characters, and one for shooting a unit to death. + The Orks are spread out. Their leadership is gone, but the Deathwatch are too slow. Both bikers are dead, and the Stalker Bolters have under performed immensely. The Custodes have 10 pounds of dried Ork entrails on their blades and seem to move slowly as a result, but in their travels the Chaplain points out an objective marker and orders the Custodes to chase down the loan Mega Armoured Nob who fatally wounded the Watch Captain. They destroy him without thought, and recover the Watch Captain's body. + The Independent Characters the Orks drove deep into the Deathwatch zone are mutilated by Dreadnought assault cannons, Terminator fire, and Frag Cannon shots. + Looking around the field all Orks are somehow dead... debris everywhere, smoking antiquated trukks litter the battlefield... in the distance only a squad of Ork Tank Bustas remain. They cling to their abandoned tower for refuge. The Deathwatch Captain runs as hard as his power armour will let him, and reaches the Ork zone, but well short of the last squad on the table..... + I score a few points. Orks are winning 7-6. We are in Turn 5, he rolls to end the game. I need one more turn... one more, but the game ends. We tally the score and realized my Chaplain had secured his zone for Line Breaker making the game 7-7. Incredible. Somehow a tie is eked out. Conclusion: - My opponent couldn't believe the Custodes. I couldn't either. They'd been good, but this was a very good match up for them. No AP2 shooting makes a massive difference. My Opponent estimates he threw 30 guys at the Custodes and Chaplain, and that includes his Warlord, and FnP saves in there, as well as about 4-5 power fists. They stalled the green flood, and bought the Deathwatch time to position and fire. They were definitely the best aspect of my army. - The captain held the beacon, but as usual did little else. The Beacon did not get used in this game, but rarely am I seeing such a fast army that wants to assault. The Black Shield did very good.... it's too bad I couldn't have kept him alive somehow but without a competent tank HQ it puts a lot of stress on the squad. - The Culexus... he was a total throw away, non-factor in this game. I wanted to keep using him in more games because not everyone has a broken pskyer formation to defend against and it turns out this was a good test for him. I kept him back with defense in mind, and he just whiffed and died. Even his special gun only killed an Ork. Thanks for reading this. Hope you found it entertaining.

I just played another Tau game, but it was against a 'fun list'. Tons of vehicles, lots of tanks so very few saves for me. I took so much damage from AP 3 or better it was insane. I lost my two biggest squads the turn after their arrival, but before I did I used the Beacon Angelis to flip a Chaplain and 5 Custodes across the table. My HQ being wiped and two fair sized pod squads was typically Tau, but I think the worst part was I could only cause 2 Tau vehicles to jink on arrival (they still lived even after being targeted with an Auspex each.) In his ensuing turn he moved tanks slightly (I couldn't get all his hammer heads in the picture below), but the Breacher squads are just so gross.... they are incredibly anti-drop pod , basically cleaning up anything that Interceptor couldn't. About halfway through my opponent's turn I realized I was hardly rolling any dice. It came to me that most of what was targeting me doesn't allow me a save.... moments like these the game feels so anti-marine right now. At the end of the day he had a heck of a time trying to get rid of my Custodes.... again. + Tau 'fun' deployment: squads of Breachers, and a long tank line with a Drone Commander in the middle and lots of marker lights. + So here's me dropping in.... shockingly in this game there was no Interceptor!!! I was shocked.... however with 90% of his army in boxes, I couldn't kill anything. + - I'm picking up a lot of models and just putting them away with no saves.... but the Custodes did pop his throwaway squad of ObSec Kroot. - He is ramping up the score bigtime.... I have a squad in the background (see top picture) to continue the IHB (Infernus Heavy Bolter) experiment. They are in that Grey Rhino.... T1, even with dozer blades, I move the rhino 2 inches, I roll snake eyes and the thing is immoblized. o_0 - I give up Warlord, and two of my best Aquila squads, my Libby (dead) failed to kill anyhting with Psychic Shriek. - I now have 4 Custodes, an Aquila of 5 Stalker Bolters (never killed a thing, it's all in tanks) with a Cyclone Terminator (maybe he got a hullpoint off a vehicle all game? Caused some jinks mostly. - The IHB squad got out of their dead rhino. All game they maybe killed 3-4 Kroot caught in the open. He saw that they were only Infernus Heavy Bolters, so he flew his vehicles right into them, shocking them off of objectives, knowing I could not even glance the front armour of his transports. + Tau coasting to a win.... I am playing magic wound time with these Custodes..... and they're angry. + - Custodes play magic friends, get into CC smoke a squad. He's having trouble getting past my 2+ saves and 3++ shields. Custodes kill a tank, marker drones, Drone Commander, a full breacher squad, a Pathfinder squad (top of buliding), and a Hammerhead Tank.... THEN leave the runes near end game with 3 models left!!!! - My BSSF Ancient comes firing in automatically on T4 (he failed all reserve rolls) and I have to kill a vehicle with him... that's all he has to do. He lines up the back of a transport with his Assault cannon, misses 3 shots, fails to pen/glance on fourth shot. He is annihilated by Breachers in the next turn. - He was running away with this. He drew good cards, and while I had solvable cards, they were hard... kill this, grab that... nothing I was sitting on. - My IHB squad is so innefective he is just dancing around it knowing I can't damage anything in range. He gets out of his transport to grab a big point turn and quickly ramps up 13 points on me. - My Custodes take some serious tank shots but the Tau are used to me just putting models in the case... but not the Custodes. Everyone, including the Chaplain has a wound on them, but 3 models still live. I get out to mid field with the Custodes, they wipe up some remnant Kroot, and the Custodes smash into the Transport my Dreadnought could not hurt. - Custodes destroy the Transport, the IHB squad fails to do anything again. - The Stalker team which has literally done nothing (lack of soft targets, out ranged) decides they mush break from the building to get to mid table... they die a horrrendous death trying to get there. The Cyclone Termie fails his first save of the game (needed invuln from Hammer head), and the squad melts with him. - The game goes to T6 and I concede. Ironically I have 2 Custodes with the single Chaplain, 4 members of the IHB squad, and the Rhino JUST repaired itself... and then gets destroyed. Amazingly enough I manage 12 points to his 13. End Game Thoughts: - I tried hard to make it a game. I was thoroughly demoralized at the mass loss of troops and how much my army struggled against armour. Also having so few saves against Eldar and Tau gets pretty old, pretty fast. Add in Admech/Grav and it's enough to make someone go to Daemons or something where you're better off running around the battlefield with a loin cloth for protection. - This is the continuation of some heavy experimentation. Obviously this is not my idea of an optimized list but after some consideration I've made some final decisions on some units: - BSSF as a stand alone Detachment is terrible. - Watch Company is 'good', but too tax heavy - Dreadnoughts are still terrible in mildly competitive meta's, but even more so when it's nearly the only armour your opponent has to focus all his melta/plas/las/Stealth Cadre at. - Infernus Heavy Bolter. I'm not going to bother debating this any further. In my mind ,this is the worst weapon in the codex at a melta cheaper than a Frag. I won't say I'll never, ever field them again, because there's always a chance my wife will drive over all my Frag Cannon models and I'll have to proxy IHB's as Frag. Custodes save the day!