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  • Mike Zulu

    Dakota Minor Defence Corps (PDF)

    By Mike Zulu

    Introduction Like many established Imperium worlds, Dakota Minor has a planetary defence force simply known the Dakota Minor Defence Corps (or DMDC). Most of its number are conscripted from the local population; a small number of citizens willingly join to escape the tedium of farm life that is prevalent on Dakota Minor. The DMDC is organised in a manner similar to Astra Militarum regiments, albeit more limited in their makeup. For the most part, it consists of dozens of infantry battalions
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  • Bouargh

    AdMech Patrol #2 - Progress report

    By Bouargh

    Blog entries pass and sometimes look like very similar to some previous ones. It is one of the issues when dealing with army building on base of multiples buy outs of the same Patrol Box...   Yet we might eventually expect some variation if the models are fitted in different fashion, ain´t we?   The Onagre DuneCrawler as already been spoiled in the FOrums, but it has been the major progress of the past week so I will "proudly" republish it there. It is also an unhonorable  wa
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    I got in another game this weekend with Tyriks and remembered to take pictures this time. We decided to play 1000 points again because we're still getting back into 40k since a long pause during 9th and a shorter break between the start of 10th and now due to life being chaotic. The lists are in the comments below this Batrep Post to keep the clutter down.

     

    Tyriks graciously set up the table for us after drawing a random deployment card, which was Crucible Of Battle or diagonal deployment zones on the short sides of the board edges. 

     

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    1. Initial Board State

     

    For the mission and rules, we drew Take And Hold with Minefields modifying the overall mission. Minefields causes 6's on advance roles to cause the unit damage and the mission overall is just attempting to keep objectives under your control, capping at 15 points per turn for 3 held. For our secondarys, the Necrons opted for Bring it Down and Engage on All Fronts and the Tau selected Storm Hostile Objective and Engage on All Fronts

     

    IMG_20231029_1146132.thumb.jpg.ec81b7e2b96f6279f209ee91d3e47ab4.jpg

    2. Mission rules

     

    Deployment

    We both had a generous amount of cover to deploy into and I elected to place my pathfinders in my large center ruin while the rest of my army, which could mostly not benefit from cover anyway, deployed evenly to either side of the main ruin. My rail rifle Broadsides and one squad of Breachers in their devilfish deployed to the left side of the ruin, lining up for a supported drive towards the center objective with an eye at having the rail rifles neutralize the heavy destroyers. On the right side, my tetras posted up on my objective with my high yield missile broadsides and the other unit of Breachers in their Devilfish. Finally, I placed my stealth team on the left no-man's-land objective behind the large rock so they could spot into the other objective zones. 

     

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    3. Tau Deployment 

     

    My opponent placed his warriors on the first floor of his central ruin and his heavy destroyers on the second level, overlooking the battlefield. The ophidians hid behind the small ruin opposite of my tetras eyeing the other mid-field objective behind the rock closer to his deployment zone. His Canoptek Stalker and Hexmark Destroyer lurked in deep Strike waiting to jump into action where they could do the most damage.

    20231028_112749.thumb.jpg.de15525c52bd2eeb2348a116edc3fa85.jpg

    4. Necron Deployment

     

    Turn 1

    Tyrik's won first turn and decided that discretion was the better part of valor and mostly remained for the first turn of movement after seeing a disappointing advance roll for his warriors, commenting that in prior games rash early movement had gotten him into trouble. Instead, he shuffled his warriors back to hold his home objective and instructed his Heavy Destroyers to take out the pathfinders from their second story overwatch position. A withering barrage of enmitic exterminator fire quickly yielded exactly 10 unsaved wounds for the poor pathfinders, taking the Tau's primary spotter unit out of action before a single Markerlight had illuminated an enemy of the Greater Good. Ending his turn, the Necrons scored 0 secondary points but dealt a major blow to the Tau's spotting network.

    In response, Tau shuffled the Tetras over to get a fix on the Heavy Destroyer's with their High Intensity Markerlights and instructed the rail rifle Broadsides to remain stationary, anchoring their battlesuits into the ground to get every bit of stability. The stealth suit hopped out to also gain a spotting angle while the nearby Devilfish jetted onto the objective they had left. The missile-equipped broadsides strode forward and barely got one suit into range of the destroyers as well.

     

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    5. Tau Turn 1 Movement

     

    Once movement had ceased, the broadside teams opened fire on the Heavy Destroyers and their attached Lord, leading to one wound from the missile barrage and four wounding hits from the heavy rail rifles. Two wounding hits from the heavy rail rifles were absorbed by the Locust Lord, who failed both invulnerable saves but managed to save the unit from potential destruction. The remaining two wounding hits killed off two whole Locust destroyers, leaving a single, minorly damaged survivor amongst the wreckage of his comrades.

     

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    6. The lone survivor

     

    Turn 2

    The necron warriors with their attached Overlord managed to roll a respectable 3" for their advance roll this round and struck out through the ruin's windows and out onto the center of the battlefield, making a straight line for the middle objective. The living metal of one of the scrapped Heavy Destroyers crept to life and mended the clean, precise rail rifle shot that had put it out of commission only moments before, allowing it and its now-full-health compatriot to jet out of the ruin and down to the objective behind the ruin. The squad of Ophidians slithered to the nearby neutral objective and took it. At the end of all the shuffling movement, the two deep striking units emerged, hopping together on the center objective after failing to find a good backfield area to invade. 

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    7. Necron Movement

     

    The Necron warriors and the newly-arrived Hexmark fired into the stealth suits, managing to down one and put a wound on another despite their powerful obscuring fields. The canoptek stalker fired into the broadsides to its front and then attempted to charge, but only managed to take a wound from overwatch fire before the failed charge roll. The necrons again scored 0 secondary points but scored a single objective: 5-0, Necrons

     

    Seeing the enemy advance into the open, the inexperienced Tau commander decided that they had waited long enough and sent forth all forces for their strikes. Both Devilfish screamed forward and delivered their breachers, sending the Gue'Vesa to confront the Necron warriors and their tau comrades to face down the Ophidians. Both broadside pairs shuffled to get better lines of sight to their chosen quarry. The stealth team jumped back to their original position to mark the Ophidians using the corridor through the the center rocks.

     

    PXL_20231028_163713373.thumb.jpg.a5f7d9b2844136e8d7d86f7f085d6ab5.jpg

    8. Tau Movement (Messed up framing and cut off the bottom of the board :/ )

     

    Starting off the shooting, the Gue'Vesa in the middle of the board fired their full salvo of Pulse Blaster fire, aided by the high intensity markerlights of the Tetras and their Fireblade, and managed to down a little more than half of the block of warriors. The warriors used a strategem to return fire, felling 3 of the human auxiliaries. The Heavy Rail Rifle broadsides threaded a needle through their side of the board and wiped out the heavy destroyers over the heads of their vulnerable human allies. In an error, the Tau breachers fired before the missile broadsides, killing off the two Ophidian Destroyers that their support fire could see. This left their fire going into the Canoptek Stalker, which took no damage from the weak but plentiful missiles. Two objectives and Engage on All fronts were scored: 5-12 Tau

     

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    9. Breachers Confront the Ophidian Destroyers

     

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    10. Gue'Vesa breachers pouring fire into the Advancing Necron Warriors

     

    Turn 3

    Resurrection returned several warriors and one ophidian, leaving both units near full strength ad they advanced forward towards the breachers that had fired into them. The stalker scurried towards the broadside that it had been dueling with since it arrived from deep striking into the center.  The Hexmark remained stationary to target the stealth suits. 

    PXL_20231028_170308318.thumb.jpg.76442c98972cd8d0feee9ab7c90faf13.jpg

    11. Necron Movement

     

    The Necron warriors fired into the breachers and killed six more breachers with the rapid fire gauss fire, leaving only one of the squad living alongside their attached Fireblade. The Hexmark Destroyer fired into the stealth team and easily felled the remaining two members. The stalker again fired at the missile broadsides but their armor proved fit to handle all the hits, taking no wounds. The other breachers managed to avoid any casualties to fire from the Ophidians and were subsequently charged. In response, they used Emergency Embarkation and jumped back into their transport. The Devilfish was then retargeted for the charge and took 8 wounds of damage from the vicious machines. The stalker charged into the missile broadsides, taking one damage from overwatch, and proceeded to do no damage. 

     

    Starting with two objectives and scoring no secondaries again, they gained 10 points: 15-12 Necrons 

     

    Feeling the overwhelming onslaught of the Necrons turn the tide in basically a single turn, the Tau began to withdraw as much as they could. The remaining Gue'Vesa piled into their devilfish which jetted down the top board edge towards the enemies deployment zone. The other Devilfish followed suit and fell back over the Ophidians. (I misread the rule at first and disembarked my breachers, but we double checked after the picture was taken and reembarked them.) The missile broadsides fell back in hopes that their counterparts with the rail rifles could swing back around the ruin and fell the T9 stalker for them. Unfortunately, the rail rifle broadsides who had been crack shots up until now failed to wound at all. With only one objective scored and not enough table quarters, the Tau only gained 5 points: 15 - 17 Tau

     

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    12. Tau Movement

    Turn 4

    With a large majority of the Tau force dead and fleeing and with time short (Dang afternoon weddings), the game was conceded by the Tau after running through possibilities for scoring with so few troops left on the board. Necron Victory.

    Conclusion

    Saracen: I am still learning Tau and I think I made plenty of mistakes this game. It is weird coming from GK and other former armies where 3+ was the standard across the board for shooting and fighting. Tau really need to rely on having spotters available and also need to coordinate to take opponent's down together. I thought a single breacher squad with minimal support would be enough to handle large threats and they really needed to be deployed together rather than on their own. If I would have rushed the center and shot the warriors off the board, Tyriks would have had less of an easy time figuring out how to fight back even though I would have left the Ophidians to move freely. Some lessons were learned and fun was had, though, so I think the game was a success overall. 

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    Tyriks
    Latest Entry

    I haven't had much time for hobby lately, and I spent most of that time building. But I did get some time to work on my Swarmlord (which I may be using as a Hive Tyrant on foot, but the Swarmlord looks cooler so I went for that). Side note - the new Hormagaunts are SO MUCH BETTER than the old ones. I remember spending more time cleaning mold lines than everything else combined when I built them back in 4th/5th.  I also have (I think) a handle on how I want to go about the background for my fleet, but I need to work on that more.

     

    20231025_2036442.thumb.jpg.31551524f997a5557e34c45e287ccb0b.jpg

     

    So, here's my Swarmlord. The gray I haven't started on (obviously) but the red and bone are looking good. I have tried to use bone in at least 5 armies before now, using a variety of techniques, and never got it to look quite right, so I am very happy to finally be getting smooth, consistent results with it.

     

    My process so far is to do the red first and just be sloppy with it. Its 3:1 Flesh Tearers Red with Contrast Medium, I mixed up a huge pot so I don't have to mix it on every model and get it wrong sometimes. Then I fix the white everywhere I messed up, which is probably the hardest step because it's slow and tedious and doesn't actually make the model look more done, but I'm starting to enjoy it more and more as I get the hang of it. Then the bone parts (mixed up a huge batch of that too, 1:1 Skeleton Horde to medium) and then the gray, which is 2:1 Basilicanum Gray and Medium but painted over with ProAcryl bright neutral gray. I am considering adding some edge highlights, which I am historically not good at, but we will see. Hopefully I can finish the gray here Friday and maybe do the head at the same time.

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    Much as I love the new Primaris models, there's just something about the classic pre-8th Space Marines and the kitbashing of said models that really hits a nostalgia nerve for me. So I wanted a project that didn't feel redundant in the modern game of 40K, but also steers clear of being Heresy. The answer is obviously to step back to 5th/6th Edition and the coolest internecine conflict the Imperium has ever seen, the Badab War!

     

    The aim is to use a bit of modern third-party product in combination with the classic "Firstborn" look to bring the belligerents of the Badab War up to the bigger Astartes scale without relying on Primaris to do it (at least not too much, I'm sure a few of their arms will be sprinkled around!) 

     

    I'm not working on a specific chapter to start with, just building a few Marines and seeing where it takes me, using the chapter tactics and character rules from the Forgeworld Badab War books to guide me in my building (Carcharadon tactical marines will have CCWs, Red Scorpion Sergeants will have Nartheciums and so on)

     

    To get started, here's a Tactical Marine. Any thoughts on which chapter he could belong to? image.thumb.jpeg.29eeceed0e4a64bafaaabba90b1ce331.jpeg

  1. To avoid burying the lede, the TL;DR is that I'm switching to Necrons.

     

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    Every game of 10th that I have played has been with Orks. I've managed to track every game since my third in the (excellent) Tabletop Battles app. You can see my stats below:

     

    large.Screenshot_20230925-184906_kindlep

     

    As you can see, I've now played thirty games of 10th. And while I have a lot of thoughts about the edition in general, this post is about my experiences playing Orks, and my plans for the foreseeable future.

     

     

    Evolution of a List

     

    A quick rundown of how to win a game using the Leviathan mission deck:

     

     


    You can score up to fifty points on the primary objectives

    You can score up to forty points from secondary objectives

    If you take fixed secondaries, you can only score twenty points from each secondary

     

    Scoring the primary is often about being able to take the objective and hold it. Scoring secondaries is either about having units in the right parts of the table at the right times, or killing specific enemy units (or just in general, for one of them). The choice for fixed or tactical secondaries usually comes down to your opponent and what their list easily gives up (exceptions occur, of course). There are sixteen tactical secondary objectives, and only four require you to kill enemy units; the other ten are of the "unit(s) in the right part(s) of the table at the right time" variety. To score the full points, you need to average 12.5 primary points per turn (as you don't score in the first turn, with one exception), and 8 secondary points per turn. When playing tactical, you can get two secondaries per turn, which each need to score, on average, four points to max score. Tactical secondaries score between two and eight points each, which averages to roughly 4.5 points, but 3/4ths of them score up to 5, another three score up to 8, and one scores only 3.
     

     

     

    Ok, so scoring points and winning games with tactical secondaries is about putting units on objectives, surviving on those objectives until you can score, having units that can be in the right place at the right time and, of course, killing the enemy as needed. While you don't have to score the full 90 to win every time (just have to have more than your opponent, afterall), it's generally safer to have a plan on how to get the max. You can win the game by tabling the enemy, but you can also lose after tabling the enemy. You cannot lose by scoring the max number of points (though you can tie, hilariously enough), and you can max score without killing a single enemy unit (though that is so incredibly unlikely to occur).

     

    Over time, I learned these facts. I started early with Mozrog, pound-for-pound the best beatstick in the index, but I quickly grew so enamored with him that I had to add another Squigboss. I bought, assembled, and (barely) painted a unit of Flash Gitz, and converted a counts-as Kaptin Badrukk, after I played another Ork and saw how deadly that unit's shooting was (especially their overwatch, a tool I otherwise don't think Orks can make use of). I went from three trukks to four, then five, and eventually six, and I think if there wasn't a limit, I would have kept going. They are the right combination of fast, durable and cheap, and they consistently score me secondary objectives. And I've expanded my Squighog Boys unit from being mobile objective doers to being the primary hammer of my list.

     

    Some things haven't worked for me:

    • Beastsnagga Boyz and the Beastboss. I've used this unit in the vast majority of my games, but I just can't help but feel like it doesn't do enough. Often, the best thing about it was the OC, which I can get cheaper from regular Boyz. The Beastboss has been especially disappointing, as he is so reliant on generating Devastating Wounds in order to do any damage, and even against vehicles, it's pretty easy to have a bad turn and not get enough 4+s. At least the Squigbosses are durable enough that when they whiff, they can be expected to stick around and get another shot at it. This is a recent drop for me, but I can't imagine I'll miss them.
    • Nobz and the Warboss. I've gone back and forth on these guys, from running a full 10-man, to having none, to having two 5-mans (each with a warboss), and most recently, back to a full 10-man. The truth is, they are the best source Orks have for a large quantity of AP-2 attacks, something we sorely need. But they suffer from being too easy to kill; -1 to-be-wounded is nice and all, but 2W and no innate invulnerable save just make them too soft, and we can also slap a -1 to-be-wounded on any non-vehicle unit. This is a high-finesse unit and one I've been really trying to use well.
    • Anything that shoots other than Flash Gitz. We just don't have enough support, our weapons are good enough, and we can't field enough of it to matter.

     

    In the end, this meant I've found the most success by making lists that focus on staying power over offensive burst; a few units can lay down the hurt, but the vast majority of the list isn't interested in killing the enemy as much as it's just trying to find points to score. And even those best, most deadly units, the Squigbosses and Squighog Boyz, are really about being ultra-durable and forcing the opponent to over-invest in killing them, lest they let my stuff get to them. That means it's very viable for me to keep my units on objectives but out of Line-of-Sight and force the enemy to over-commit to clear the objective. It's simple, it's effective, and frankly, it's a lot of fun.

     

    But, there's a problem.

     

    The Problem

     

    Sitting back on objectives and forgoing charging into the enemy isn't very Orky. There's room for kunnin' and I'm a Blood Axe at heart, but still, it will never feel right to go "my Squighog Boys are not going to move to charge that Dreadnought" and instead just score points by sitting there. But, that's what I'm often doing! And, again, I like it! Playing the game tactically and for the win is an enjoyable experience. It's just not what I signed up for when I selected the greenskins.

     

    There's a couple more:

    • I cannot paint Orks fast enough to react to changing metas and my own preferences. I paint every detail on my Orks and use a lot of colors, and it just takes me forever, which isn't ideal when you want to quickly swap and add units.
    • hate the movement rules in the Charge and Fight phases. I just don't find it fun to do, and those phases being so key to my army's (meager) offensive output actively saps my enjoyment.

     

    So, what's the solution?

    The Solution

     

    Enter the Necrons. They have it all:

    • Primarily a shooting army, so no need to perform charge/fight phase movement a dozen times per game.
    • A quick paint scheme that I can bang out fast when my list needs to change.
    • Similar overall strategy of holding objectives and just surviving the onslaught to score points.

     

    But most importantly;

    • They play competitively like they are in the fluff.

     

    Currently, competitive Necrons are all about using "bricks" of either Warriors or Lychguard (or even one of each!), getting them on objectives in No Man's Land and just outlasting everything. They get killed and then just get back up, an implacable force that laughs at the puny weapons of the younger species of the galaxy. Their esoteric and arcane technologies allow them to make the laws of physics into tools for acts akin to magic, such as the teleportation of troops. And so on and on, fluff reflected on the tabletop in a manner that isn't just faithful, but is also good.

    It's for these reasons that I'll be switching to Necrons, a faction I didn't even consider at the beginning of the edition, as the name of this blog implies. In fact, other than painting the Indomitus set three years ago, and another five Immortals as a palette cleanser some time later, I never seriously thought about collecting the army, let alone playing them as my main faction. But then again, 10th is my edition of trying new things, so I should be less surprised.

    But for now, the Kharezt dynasty awakens, and marches to war.

  2. So I’m new to the B&C blog feature, but thought I would use it to post the progress of my new Ultramarines army. 
     

    I originally intended it to be a a Third Company army, but plans have changed, and I am now planning on building it as a 1st Company Strike Force. 

  3. Hello all!

     

    Sorry that my normal posting schedule got disrupted by NoVa and life, but the balance dataslate is a perfect chance to slip in a low effort post! 

     

    Some knee jerk thoughts:

     

    Cult Ambush

     

    This was actually a fairly frustrating change to me. The end result is for most practical intents and purposes, models are coming back on a 4+. It’s just….very convolutedly written and I wish they had made it simpler and more streamlined. To be honest, I don’t particularly like the direction they took GSC with this rule. I appreciate how it is meant to represent on the table how they act as an army, but it’s entirely too random and difficult to balance. As most tabletop gamers are all too aware, the four ups are fickle.

     

    Modifying Stratagem’s Costs

     

    This one is a bit hidden, so you are quite forgiven if you miss it, but it will primarily impact the Nexos. 

     

    “Rules that modify the CP cost of a Stratagem but do not specify the name of the Stratagem can only be used to affect the CP cost of Battle Tactic Stratagems.”

     

    “Rules that allow you to use a Stratagem even if another unit has been targeted by that Stratagem this phase or turn, but that do not specify the name of the Stratagem, can only be used to use Battle Tactic Stratagems”. 

     

    List of Battle Tactic Stratagems for GSC:

    • Index - A Perfect Ambush
    • Index - Coordinated Trap
    • Core - Command Reroll
    • Core - Go to Ground

     

    It’s….a short list. The good news is that it won’t impact free Grenades and the like for the Saboteur. However, coupled with the points hikes, I expect that the Nexus will be mostly gone from lists now, given that the singular best Stratagem it can impact now is A Perfect Ambush, and that may not be worth the 60 pts.

     

    Also: the Double Demo Alpha Strike is Dead, long live the Double Demo Alpha Strike.

     

    Atalan Jackals

     

    They come in within 9” of a table edge now, not 6”. This is mostly a quality of life change due to the new 3” restriction on Ambush Markers. Not huge, but welcome.

     

    Points Increases

     

    We’re not surprised right?

     

    For the most part, I don’t really see anything too tragic here. I stayed away from the triple Primus build for a reason, and when they came for it…they came for it. I still think you’ll see the Primus running around, just probably in more measured ways.

     

    Only one thing I do want to harp on--I HATE the 10%(ish) hike on the Aberrants. They were already expensive and they had a unique role of tanking in an army that severely lacks for it. What a frustrating shame, clearly it was to pre-prune ideas of an immediate pivot to Muscle Beach.

     

    Moving Forward Productively

     

    So…what are the future building blocks?

    • Acolytes got off relatively lightly, so plenty of them in the future. 
    • Nexos are probably out. 
    • I do want to highlight Hybrid Metamorphs went completely untouched and they have been performing VERY WELL for me. I have more to say on them later on, but I think they have been seriously overlooked. 
    • Kellermorphs are also untouched, and very competitive for having a second unit that can 3” deep strike in a turn for scoring secondaries. Don’t sleep on their point scoring value!!!
    • Brood Brothers--Manticores took a big hike and Scout Sentinels a smaller one, but Basilisks are unchanged and perhaps quite the opportunity….!!!

     

    Shake ups can be tough, but it’s always a good chance to re-evaluate everything with fresh eyes!

     

    Back to the Dojo!!!
     

  4. As a follow up to my previous blog post, I decided to make a short update on how my zero bits challenge is going so far and I will start by making a comparison between the current status graphs versus the ones from the last update:

     

    Status from May 2nd
    large.overall_miniature_status_02_05_2023_graph.png.481109690ee7e4f105fc66284a88be2b.png

     

    Status from September 5th

    large.overall_miniature_status_05_09_2023_graph.png.64c421c46086843c5d283c0fe9e71bc9.png

     

    There are some changes on the green bars (painted models) in several categories as you can probably notice, but the major difference at the moment would be the fact that the top value in the infantry graph moved from 3500 to 4500 and the red bar (models converted beyond box numbers) is getting closer to the size of the blue bar (bought models) and at the moment the distribution of bought versus converted is at 58% versus 42%

    I should get closer to 50-50 until the end of the year (although I am not yet sure whether I will reach it in 2023 or not), as I spend more of the spare parts in the boxes.

    The last group of boxes that I have dispatched were persians from wargames atlantic although some of the converted models were certainly far closer to sci-fi models than would be expected from the original box. After spending all bits from the 5 boxes of persians I ended up with 480 converted models, 80 more than the amount I had done from the einherjar boxes before.

     

    I still have a large amount of spare bits to use before I can get to a point where only newly purchased boxes have bits to use, but if I keep up the pace I should be able to get most bits spent before the end of 2024. When that happens I will have the ability to focus more on scratch built stuff or simply painting, basing and other tasks that will be pending when the building/converting part is over.

     

    On the painting side I should be able to finish some of the categories this year, with cavalry being the most likely candidate to being fully done before the end of 2023.

  5. Oath of Moment
    If your Army Faction is ADEPTUS ASTARTES, at the start of your Command phase, select one unit from your army and one unit from your opponent’s army. Until the start of your next Command phase, each time a model from the unit (from your army) you chose makes an attack that targets the enemy unit your chose, you can re-roll the Hit roll and you can re-roll the Wound roll.

    Design Note
    Some units have rules which state (hopefully in consistent language along the lines of “When chosen for Oath of Moment”) they gain additional bonuses when chosen as the unit from your army for Oath of the Moment. If another rule would have such a unit “counts as under the effect of Oath of the Moment when attacking” then they do not gain the additional bonus (because they were not chosen, they're just under the effect). They can, however, use Stratagems requiring a unit be “under the effect of Oath of Moment.”

     

    Gladius Strike Force Detachment

    Unchanged from the current Index, except for Bolter Discipline


    Bolter Discipline - 15 Points
    ADEPTUS ASTARTES model only. While the bearer is attached to a unit, ranged weapons with either “Bolt” or “Bolter” in their name in that unit have the [SUSTAINED HITS 1] ability. If the ranged weapon already has [SUSTAINED HITS 1], then it becomes [SUSTAINED HITS 2]. In addition, while the bearer’s unit is under the effects of the Devastator Doctrine, each time a model in that unit makes a ranged attack, a successful unmodified Hit roll of 5+ scores a Critical Hit.

  6. Some pics from a game I played against Space Wolves yesterday. Another loss as I lost a turn due to bad placement and boxing myself in. I need to switch up my list, my tactics, and have a plan.

     

    Wrapping up deployment.

     

    Spoiler

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    Space Wolves advance unimpeded.

     

    Spoiler

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    I thought I had a clever plan to ambush the advancing squad with the most powerful psyker available in the army. I then whiffed 7 of 9 casting rolls essentially sacrificing this dude for no gain.

    Spoiler

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    My tank survived until the end, but those reapers die in a single round of shooting from some plasma guys.

    Spoiler

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    Lost 4 rangers due to a stiff breeze (6+ saves suck) and these two followed shortly after.

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    Dark Star Prince runs to the objective just to get shot down 5 minutes later.

     

    Spoiler

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  7. Brother Nathan
    Latest Entry

    20230825_111321.thumb.jpg.5770b1195d80564e409adc2171dfeb56.jpg20230825_113213.thumb.jpg.7837d953bc92b277f1c2609b3f7e12d1.jpg20230816_092454.thumb.jpg.28f109ca80876627f85e2e67cd5f8f6d.jpgChuckles and wonders away from the plastic craic puns... maby...

     

    Anyway partially as im not sure where to overly put this one  but i find it fun and have wanted to share though its not army specific. Gaming aids...

    More specifically the things we use to play. Dice and tapemeasures and tokens and the like.  Some buy but some make. Many customise. 

    We are hobbiests who like to create and make and customise... sowhy not. 

    This is just another side of the hobby of ours that i love. Im sure some just pick up and never think much but for those that do customise... what have you done. Whatelse should i do. 

    To start ive my tape measure. Hazard stripes...(iron within) flames and a purity seal(by the angel).(i make my own seals)

    Dice box custom painted and each die has a wound on its pip so i can tell em appart from anyone elses.

    Tokens im working on. Seals for battle shock tokens. Army rule tokens to remind me. Ive got rid of all tokens i was making for 9th. Of course then theres objective tokens and the like. 

    So thoughts on what iv done and what iv missed etc. Be cool to sre others too

  8. IMG_20230817_083808.thumb.jpg.0a512f101f801197209ede6bdc177211.jpg

     

    I had to take a break from the Knights and get stuck into the Reaver. It's been a very slow progression as life keeps throwing curve balls my way but I'm slowly getting there.  Now I've got to say I've never really been a fan of the pre-moulded Princepts/Banners...etc that GW produces, not all but most. And starting out with the other armour piece that I did prior to the Call of Arms starting, having to switch to the Princepts armour piece didn't thrill me HOWEVER after I was fairly close to done with it, I don't know, it kinda grew on me and I actually really quite like it now. Not really a great shot of it here but I'm lousy at progress photo's as I always say "I'm going to document everything" and then forgetting everything I set out to document sooooo......!  

    Anyway Thanks for reading!

  9. Hey all so I have an update, just finished priming my very first land raider proteus and I had a lot of fun building it and getting it ready for when my paints and brushes show up.  Here’s a quick picture of it and in the wings I’m working on a spartan, but I have set myself the goal of building it then waiting to get it started until I’m happy with the land raider.  

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

  10. After test with other color schemes and found one I like and have begun painting a test model. It's nowhere near done but I'd figure I'd share it and get some feedback the main body is plate mail metal while the helmet and Aquila is painted banshee brown

    20230725_210033.jpg

  11. After finishing Calgar and his Honour Guard before the weekend, I was stuck waiting for my basing supplies to arrive before I took a few completed shots.

     

    All in all, I'm really happy with how things have turned out. Sure, improvements can still be made, which will show on the next models I do, which, incidentally, are my Leviathan Marines for the Combat Patrol.

     

    Photo-Room-20230626-184027.jpg

    Group Shot

     

    Photo-Room-20230626-184051.jpg

    Honour Guard 1

     

    Photo-Room-20230626-184104.jpg

    Honour Guard 2

     

    Photo-Room-20230626-184116.jpg

    Calgar

     

    So, by no means am I a professional painter, nor am I sponsored by any company. But, if I can turn out something to be happy about, think about what the masters can do!

  12. Exterminator Leman Russ

    The last time I had an exterminator painted, I think it had pewter barrels (3rd ed?). But, the index exterminator rules are at least interesting for the first time in an age. It's 'withering hail' rule means that if this main gun hits, for the rest of the phase the rest of my army gets another pip of AP against the unit that was hit. And, since the main gun has 'twin linked' it's likely to actually score hits. Still, with vehicle toughness systemically improving this 10th edition, this gun only has limited value outside it's core targets. How much do I want to waste the main gun here? This will be of some help to boost indirect fire, though. Which, at least for now seems oddly and brutally improved. A hard left in an edition change here. I love artillery as much as the next guardsman, but artillery spam lists have been largely criticized for ages.

     

    Odd that GW would go back to it, and apparently double down in it. Also, indirect fire has many drawbacks, and that could mean that pumping in a whole bunch of buffing units might be a moneypit/points sink. Typically non-los shooting is not super points per damage cost-effective. Such units are usually very vulnerable to assault as well. Certainly not moving = not scoring. Even still, assuming the sky isn't falling with the new imperial guard artillery list, how long before GW overreacts? It seems unlikely that present rules will remain for long. And that is a point of pessimism--not that GW will kill great rules, but that when they do they won't undertake to balance the rest of the codex. That is to say, without the great index units, what will be left when the nerf bat comes out swinging? All too often GW's nerf power seems one-directional. Well, part of my malaise at present is also about how quickly the new codex became obsolete. My beautiful vanquishers finally had a moment in the sun, albeit very short and largely controversial. 

     

    ALL THAT SAID... let's build an exterminator. The old forge world Mars and Gryphonne patterns are long gone. So, I picked up the 30k terminator auto cannon to convert one up. The Contemptor auto cannons might be a bit bigger and perhaps better. In any case, I like the smaller barrels with the heat-sink, something closer to the mars pattern. I miss the WW2 style (conical) flash suppressor, but the 30k one is good enough. 

    IMG_20230619_190242971.thumb.jpg.e035bdf5158e48e2dc7f52d4391baa53.jpg

    As the standard leman Russ turret weapon mount is too skinny for the forgeworld turret, I used a circle-cutter to cut out a number of circles. I then punched out some rivets from the styrene to try and get a bit closer to the forgeworld design. I also added some green stuff cables to conceal some seams and blend the whole construction in a bit. I think I'll have to cut off the support arm on the side and add two underneath. 

    IMG_20230619_190319958_HDR.thumb.jpg.eb14ad5c434209673900850e60b828b5.jpg

     

    Brick Wall

    With some foam scraps from the last display board I wanted to try out some bricks. I'm not sure if I'll just decorate a field ordnance battery or actually go all into another display board. I'm ok with it for a fist try. Since I have a 1/35 scale brick mold I can also make piles of debris to go with this. I think I should also experiment with grout in between the bricks. I'd like to try a denser foam, like AK interactive sells, but it seems Europe has the better foams at a better price (Styrodour). Such denser foams were discussed in NightShift's and Black Magic Craft's youtube videos. Ultimately it seems like denser foam will yield a better result, but the price gets really high, really quickly. I'm not sure yet what to do. I think there is something here though. 

    IMG_20230619_190046054_HDR.thumb.jpg.a0e8ee4d9eec69edcbe29fdd1cdee94d.jpg

     

  13. Greetings,

     

    Unfortunately, my work trip has taken a turn. I am now dealing with a family medical emergency in a foreign country and it looks like my return date may not be the 22nd of June.

    Obviously my focus is on my family member's health crisis at this time. All inquiries, and indeed all order shipments will be replied to as I am available, until my eventual return to the office and full availability.

    If you have an outstanding order and would like to cancel at this time, please email mcdougalldesigns3d@gmail.com at your convenience. I will process your request and refund as soon as possible.

    However, I am also extending the summer sale until whenever i return, If you would like to take advantage of the 5% off your entire order.

    This includes preorders such as mantic northern alliance products which are due for release and shipment to my office by mid July.

    Thank you to all my customers for your continued patronage, and I truly wish to get back home and fulfill your orders as soon as possible.

    Happy gaming ,

    Maxwell Mcdougall

    Mcdougall Designs

  14. Stealth_Hobo
    Latest Entry

    Following Eradicators, my Imperial Fists will now also have decorated captain to lead them. Now I'm trying to decide what to paint next. 

    captain1.jpg

    captain2.jpg

  15. Hey everyone. I've been able to make quite a bit of progress on the second Brazen Claws squad. The hellblasters are all painted and bases are done. I ended up taking a fairly simple route with the plasma coils, as my intention was just to get a nice contrasting color (Striking Scorpion Green) vs a more complex effort. Again, I only did one marine without a helmet as I am still working on upgrading my facial/eye painting skills.

     

    I'll be doing the chapter icons and maybe additional details over the next few weeks, and I've already started work on my next group... bikers! I had previously never purchased or painted bikers so the outriders will be a fun challenge.image.thumb.jpeg.11e5adf41f9e711b54de0e8572e34af3.jpeg

     

    More to come there soon. Keep painting. 

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    Sea Creature
    Latest Entry

    I want to build a new army for 10th edition. Currently I’m interested in Dark Angels and Ultramarines. These are two chapters I will always love and enjoy playing. I play to have fun and kee[ up to date on the rules. I enjoy all the hobby aspects the most.

  16. C103AB5A-35D8-41B4-B484-7192AD0050C5.jpe

     

    The recent rumours of a new edition of Epic have me excited – I'm a huge fan, and if it does come to fruition, I'd love to see how the develop it. In the meantime, I've been mulling over Legion choices. In previous editions I played Ultramarines, but this time I'm tempted by Salamanders; an army which has often been the bridesmaid and never the bride of my plans.

     

    To that end, I thought I'd explore a bit by painting a couple of individual Marines – perhaps a Kill team – at 40k scale to get my head into the Legion and work out a paint scheme I like enough to try at Epic scale. What better place to start than with the one left over from my last false start at the Salamanders?

  17. To continue on the triumvirate concepts, naturally I felt the need to compliment Ynnari with a set of Drukhari and Asuryani triumvirates
    Drukhari_triumvate.jpg.bf4ac50107030e344d6154b509b2c636.jpg

     

    Ideas often start as these rather ugly doodles ( wich I usually keep to myself, and more often than not are in small notepads and never even scanned in.) One thing I felt ynnari did is have the potential to take the exotic element out of the Dark eldar and double down on the body horror and creepier elements. (of wich I have made plenty more sketches.) so the second thing popping in mind was naturally a properly dark version of a Lhamean/wych type character.

     

    circe2web.thumb.jpg.e4272dc4dd643b34ca3bf39fc636f133.jpg

     

    I replaced the staff ( I had drawn it as a seperate element, however my linework is not digital so adjustments arent always as easy to achieve, and the arm and staff always awkwardly overlapped the head of her ur-ghul pet, hence the staff needed to stay off and another "magical" device integrated. Its based on the concept some older archons and haemonculi had.)

    In general I think its kind of odd how few solo types drukhari have, as their entire lore suits having a bunch of one off characters very well. I believe it might even be the army with the most untapped potential in general. And as such I have made many drafts for them over the years. And there is definitely more to follow

    Something you will find out in this blog, is that being more a concept artist than an illustrator, I mostly draw things that are meant (in my eyes) to fill holes,.. wich brings me to one of the rare exceptions to this:

     

    For the craftworlders I had only started on Fuegan and a Khaine shrine warlock ( the idea was to get a bit of a fire team going.. third would have been Nuadhu Fireheart ofcourse.) the latter doesnt even have ink yet and might follow later.

    IMG_0013.thumb.jpg.1dd5db10ab969b46756c62582280029e.jpg

     

    Many more eldar concepts to come, including as my forum name might suggest, exodites, though I want to spread it out over different topics.

    Till the next one.

  18. One of my other hobbies aside from not finishing models is drawing. I do it quite a lot, enough that the majority of my Instagram entries are weird concept sketches for Tyranids.

     

    Anyway, I thought I'd share a few of them on the B&C. There's a lot more than this, but I need to scan and upload it all.

     

    AssortedNids.thumb.jpg.84be5004d95c5bd6ae686462a5024579.jpg

    Some weird Tyranid creatures- a "Scorchgaunt" carrying a flamespurt, a bio-plasma spore mine, a Carnifex intended as a ranged version of the Screamer-Killer and a more seahorsey Zoanthrope.

    Wraithlord.thumb.jpg.3576e70d77784f819893e2a42a37f828.jpg

    This Wraithlord is intended to play up the skeletal/ghostly vibe a bit of Eldar wraith-constructs.

    DeathCrusaders.thumb.jpg.44410d19d8a38f6b6eea6a73f09d1a18.jpg

    And finally (for now), some Space Marine concepts for a homebrew chapter, the Death Crusaders. From left to right, an interpretation of the Furibundus Dreadnought (inspired heavily by an old piece of concept art for the Castraferrum "box" Dreadnought I saw in Index Astartes: Apocrypha), a Marine for scale, a serf for more scale and a weird little abhuman servitor creature that is intended to be converted from a night goblin.

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    LittlePlasticHomies
    Latest Entry

    I’ve been holding onto my unpainted indomitus bladeguard since the kit came out as I never felt confident enough to do them justice.

     

    The truth is, they’re my favorite group from the box and, with 10th right right around the corner, it’s time to give them a crack!

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  19. A Fresh Infusion

     

    The Strike Cruiser Retribution emerged from the Immaterium, warp-lightning flickering over the Geller field as it dissipated. Her colours were somewhat scarred, but the deep crimson was mostly clear, and the Chapter emblem of the Blood Ravens stood proud on the flanks of the vessel. Bow thrusters reoriented the Retribution star-ward, and the main drives pulsed to life, pushing away from the Mandeville Point, towards the mysterious rendezvous in-system. Chief Apothecary Aviram sat in a spartan cell, clad in a simple surplice, and pondered the events that had led him here.

     

    The Chapter Fleet had had a bare minimum of warning before the Great Rift tore open, spilling warp storms throughout the galaxy. The vessels of the Blood Ravens had managed to complete an emergency translation to leave the Immaterium before the storms had overtaken them, but they had ended up scattered across half a sector, with no Astronomicon to guide their way. Cautious, short jumps eventually served to reunite most of the Fleet, though the ships with the Fifth Company had yet to rejoin; communications proved remarkably difficult. The Librarians, Astropaths, and Navigators all probed the currents of the Warp as best they could, but the Noctis Aeterna proved too dark to see very far. Still, cries for salvation did reach the Chapter, so Chapter Master Angelos committed the Fleet to the systems of the Havenesse Spiral to combat the invaders. The upper echelons feared that the campaign would ultimately prove futile, and the Blood Ravens would die with the worlds they defended, yet nevertheless stood fast in defense of Imperial subjects, their duty clear. All seemed lost. However, one day, the Astronomicon's light reached the Spiral again... and the invaders faded away like phantasms in the dawn. Battered, wounded, and exhausted, the Blood Ravens took heart in the fact that they were not alone. The Astronomicon may have flickered like a lighthouse seen across a stormy sea, but Holy Terra and the Imperium still stood.

     

    Chapter Master Angelos sent the ships of the Fleet throughout the systems of the Spiral to appraise the situation, evaluate the defenses, assist with restoring law and order where needed, and to quietly look for new recruits to replenish the Chapter. While this was being coordinated from the Omnis Arcanum, a strange ship translated in-system, and approached the Blood Ravens, broadcasting codes that no-one had ever expected to hear. One of the Adeptus Custodes had arrived with news! He spoke only briefly, touching on the return of the Lord Guilliman and the creation of something new, before giving the Blood Ravens coordinates for a meeting in a few weeks' time, then the Custodian left. Knowing that the Chapter was still needed in the Spiral, Aviram volunteered to go alone, but ended up with an honour guard from the First Company and temporary command of the Retribution.

     

    ------------

     

    After a couple days of sublight travel, Aviram was summoned to the bridge of the Strike Cruiser by a slightly awestruck serf. He glanced at the various vidscreens as he stepped up to the command throne, noting that they approached a massive Ark Mechanicus attended by ships of the Adeptus Astartes. The most prominent Chapter seemed to be the Ultramarines, but there were a few others that he did not recogize. The Retribution's mortal captain, a hard-faced women in her middle years, spoke in clipped Low Gothic, adjusting the ship's course with practiced ease. She turned to Aviram, switching to formal High Gothic, "My lord, the first leg of our journey is complete. The Thunderhawk is being prepared for you to travel to the Ark, and will be ready once we join the orbital stack."

     

    "My thanks for an exceptionally smooth journey, Captain. It's a testament to the skill of you and your crew," Aviram replied, noting the bridge-crew standing a little straighter. He boarded the lift and returned to his chambers, where he donned his armour before he headed down to the Thunderhawk bays.

     

    ------------

     

    An hour later, according to his armour's chronometer, the Chief Apothecary found himself walking the cavernous halls of the Ark, escorted by an Ultramarine battle-brother. Aviram's path crossed something unexpected, and time slowed as he automatically began a threat-assessment: apparent battle-brothers, taller and heavier than expected, warplate of an unfamiliar design that drew on Mark 8 stylings, helmets in a Mark 4 style clipped to waists, stowed boltguns that were longer than standard, his Ultramarine escort greeting the brothers with familiarity... Aviram blinked away the battle-trance, recogizing that he just had a case of heightened nerves after the gruelling campaign. These... Primaris Space Marines... were full battle-brothers of the Ultramarines. His escort turned and said "We've arrived, Chief Apothecary. The Magos awaits within." Nodding his thanks, Aviram stepped inside a laboratory.

     

    "Welcome! I am Genetor Magos Biologis Eskarina 8 Theta!" A large cowled figure gestured from a desk covered in glassware and arcane devices. "Please state your name and Chapter affiliation."

     

    "I am Chief Apothecary Aviram, of the Blood Ravens." He could only see one human eye, peeking out from the cowl and esoteric augmetics. Aviram couldn't guess how the Magos had originally appeared, before they had begun making adjustments to them-self.

     

    "One moment, Chief Apothecary, whilst I sort through my records... Ah, here we are. May I take a sample to confirm that you are a member of the Blood Ravens?"

     

    "Of course, Magos." Aviram stripped off a gauntlet and offered his hand to the waiting mechadendrite; with a quick flick, it stabbed into the ball of his thumb, sampling his blood. The blood in the puncture wound began to clot as soon as the needle withdrew; soon he would have a fresh scar. Aviram tugged his gauntlet back on, as the machine tested the sample. Soon it emitted a steady tone, and blinked green.

     

    "Excellent, 98.976% compatible! Accounting for acceptable levels of genetic drift between the sample and the Blood Ravens gene-seed tithe, you are most certainly a Blood Raven. Now; to business. I regret that I do not have full battle-brothers prepared for your Chapter, Chief Apothecary; there are two reasons for this. Reason Primus: the Lord Guilliman wanted to begin with the Chapters that had provided gene-seed tithes since the beginning, the Ultramarines, the Imperial Fists, the Dark Angels, et cetera, et cetera, before moving on to Chapters from later Foundings. Reason Secundus: There are... irregularities... in the Martian records about the Blood Ravens." The Magos paused, weighing how best to explain them-self. "The records speak of a Chapter that is laudable, but all of the cross references link to datastacks that are damaged, or data crystals that are missing. Even the main record file only goes back to circa 700M41 - everything prior to that is sealed by the Fabricator General... and the Inquisition."

     

    "That is consistent with our experiences," the Chief Apothecary admitted, suppressing his disappointment at the revelations. "But we still seek to find what knowledge we can..."

     

    A brief buzz of binharic was emitted by the Magos, before they switched back to High Gothic. "Apologies, Chief Apothecary, but in my excitement, I forgot that you were not a tech-adept, since you captured the essence of the Quest for Knowledge so succinctly! In any case, rest assured that the Blood Ravens are held in good standing by the Adeptus Mechanicus. I have ten sets of gene-seed cultures prepared and stored in a stasis-vault. Further, I can authorize you to draw up to ten sets of Mark X power armour, and the accompanying bolt rifles." Eskarina handed Aviram a dataslate. "Here are the updated guidelines for implantation, along with suggested martial training routines, and technical specifications on the new Marks of arms and armour." The Magos' remaining eye took on a reverent light. "Handed down by the Lord Guilliman himself!"

     

    No matter how many times he heard it, the Lord Guilliman hardly seemed real. "Thank you, Magos, I shall guard this with my life. None shall find the Blood Ravens wanting."

     

    ------------

     

    Aviram sat in the hold of the Thunderhawk; an odd location for warp travel, perhaps, but he was unwilling to let the stasis-vault out of his sight for very long. He flicked through the documents on the dataslate, noting how the new organs interacted with the existing ones, and carefully reading about adverse affects to avoid. This Belisarius Cawl was an unorthodox fellow, that much was certain, but he had found a way to augment the superhuman Adeptus Astartes. How would these new battle-brothers change the Chapter? Would they help reveal anything about the Blood Ravens' past? Ultimately, these were questions for wiser heads than his. The Chief Apothecary had ten aspirants to find first.

  20. The core of the Bolter & Chainsword is the discussion forums. After all, the B&C started as a discussion forum in the late 1990’s, back during the heady days of online discussion forums and the 3rd edition of the Warhammer 40,000 game. Over time, we have expanded the site’s capabilities to better support the needs of our members. Something we often lose sight of is the fact that Warhammer 40,000 is a hobby with various aspects. The most obvious of these are the painting of miniatures and playing games, but there are other aspects such as modeling (converting miniatures is an art in and of itself) and developing background for the game. Each of us has our own preferences for the various aspects of the hobby that we participate in. Regardless of our individual preferences, just discussing the hobby (as we do in our discussion forums) is not part of the hobby. The discussion forums, like our other capabilities, are simply tools that enable us to engage with other members of the hobby in a variety of ways. All of these capabilities are intended to enable the site to live up to its mission statement:

     

    The Bolter & Chainsword exists to help the members of a global hobby community to better understand, engage in, and enjoy all aspects of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby through constructive discussion and the sharing of hobby-related content.

     

    The blogs are one of the most important tools at your disposal for sharing your own hobby endeavors with other members of the community, especially when used in conjunction with the galleries. While many members use the discussion forums for this purpose, that option should be considered secondary to the blogs. The most important aspect of the blogs that make them superior to [just using] the discussion forums is that all of your projects can be found very easily since they are all contained in your blog. While each member is limited to a single blog, each project that you pursue can be covered in its own category within that blog. In addition, you can present other content. For example, my own blog includes a series of editorials about the hobby and the site in the Editorials category, as well as several other hobby projects that I have begun (and probably not made nearly as much progress on as I would like). I can start a project, let it lapse for some time, and then find it again very easily simply by going to my blog instead of having to search through one or more forums. Similarly, other hobbyists can find all of my projects very easily. Members can find blogs very easily by either clicking on the BLOGS button that appears at the top of the screen or by going directly to a member’s profile and clicking on the Blogs button that appears there.

     

    Earlier I suggested that the discussion forums serve as a secondary support for the blogs. The first application of this principle is the use of links in signatures. In this way, a member can include a link to their blog in their signature, giving visibility and access to their blog from any post they make in the discussion forums. In addition, members are encouraged to duplicate their blog posts in relevant discussion forums, giving relevant groups within the community more immediate visibility and access to blog posts that might be of interest to them. For example, a project that covers the creation of a Space Wolves kill team might have the main content covered in the member’s blog, with “billboard” posts in the Space Wolves and Hall of Honour forums. These posts might show an image or two of the miniatures in the kill team, along with some text and a link to the blog post which shows even more. Members can even post updates to those billboard posts (in addition to the main blog category). Where only covering projects in discussion forums often limits other members’ exposure to your works, interest in one project [category] gives these members much better visibility of your other projects. This provides more opportunities for members to engage with and inspire each other. Other members can comment on your blog entries, allowing for the same type of discussion that happens in the discussion forums.

     

    Blogs are very easy to create and they are absolutely free, available to all members of the community. The normal rules of the Bolter & Chainsword still apply in blogs, so you’re limited to Warhammer 40,000 content and standards of behavior. Unfortunately, we can’t convert/move existing discussion topics/posts into blogs (not yet, anyways – I’m going to suggest that change to Invision); and members can’t just click a button to re-post a blog entry to one of the discussion forums (another thing I’m going to suggest to Invision). So there’s a little work involved in using the discussion forums, but much of that is as easy as copy and paste (for now). We’re even going to shift our advertisers from the discussion forums to the blogs, giving them much better control over their advertising content here.

     

    Overall, the blogs provide a much better opportunity for you to share your hobby-related content with other members and we encourage you to take advantage of them.


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