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Since we seems to lake a thread about discussing how to make our traitor members of Loyalist Legions or loyalists members of Traitor Legions. There are lots of other threads where the discussion have appeared but more as a derailing or side discussions. So here we have a thread for explicit talking about how to make you Traitor Ultramarines stand out from their Loyalist brothers, or your Loyalist Night Lords form their traitors and cowards kin on the other side. And how to explain their existance. With that said, here are links to some of the threads where this discussion have happened before: Will poste some of the thoughts and suggestions from those threads here later.

Here is my idea on how many Astartes are in each Traitor group and other facts about them Emperor's Children - 360k -More blessed CSM than the Word Bearers Iron Warriors - 220k -2nd best at 'recruiting' new Marines and 2nd 'best' at losing them via attrition warfare, right behind the World Eaters Night Lords - 130k -2nd Legion with the most Marines with their Primarch's geneseed, behind the Alpha Legion World Eaters - 160k -The Traitor Legion with the easiest means to recruit new members as shown in Guymer's Angron novel. Logistics be damned -The Legion with the fewest Marines that have their Primarch's geneseed Death Guard - 470k -Aggressive recruiting allows their number to swell past their heights during the Heresy Thousand Sons - 18k Sorcerers and 90k Rubrics -Able to raise dead Marines, from their own and enemy Astartes, into Rubrics though quality will differ Black Legion - 2 Million -Right behind the World Eaters Word Bearers - 200k Alpha Legion - 1-5 Million Chaos Non-Affiliated Fallen - 17k Red Corsairs -10k -Does not include the many warbands that have pledged themselves to him, whether tempirarily or permanently. The vassals are Tens of thousands -Vast majority of Corsairs are former Loyalists Even with all those numbers, military experience, weapons and blessings the fractured nature of Chaos usually prevents the Traitors from utilizing it all before the Great Rift Even then, the Millions of Primaris Cannon Fodder Cawl unleashed is another reason why the Imperium managed to slow down their advance. Though most of the inexperienced Primaris died like flies early on they did held the line There are always near-endless Trillions of Guardsmen, Penal Conscripts, PDF and Frateris Zealots to throw at Chaos even with the Great Rift EDIT: -The Death Guard invaded Ultramar while the Iron Warriors invaded several of the most heavily defended subsectors WHILE fighting and killing each other during the War of Rust and Ruin! (Attrition warfare at its finest with many Traitor Titans dying) -Honsou came into the YEARLY Skull Harvest with 300 Marines. He came out with 5k Marines, 12k soldiers and a few ships. He kills 350 ULTRAMARINES, kills BILLIONS of Ultramar citizens and destroyed many Smurf ships!!! -ADB stated the Black Legion had TWO-HUNDRED-THOUSAND ASTARTES at the START of the 1st Black Crusade (BEFORE they assimilated some of the Legion Host which did have COMPARABLE NUMBERS!!!)

Not talking about side games like Blackstone Fortress Wondering how many and which characters can be played on Tabletop for each Traitor Legion I find it odd that some Traitor Legions don't even have Playable Characters EDIT: Hopefully GW/BL would either turn Novel characters (Decimus or Lokk) into Tabletop or create original ones so that each Traitor Legion has several (at least 8) Special Characters

+++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++ > Analyzing vox pattern........................................... > Vox pattern recognized......................................... > Initiating decryption algorithm............................... > Uploading containment protocols.......................... > Source file corrupted. Engage data salvage.............. +++Transcript 784593.79939T3A01+++ +++Captured vox recording+++ -Stactic- ...we're deep in the Koronus Expanse. System location is... [Corrupted] ...exploring derelict Gloriana Class Battleship. Vessel identified as 'The Herald of Perdition'. History expunged. Harkus, what do you think has to happen for a vessel's history to be expunged from Imperial record? Where do you think everyone went? We're gonna be rich, Harkus. Do you here me? A rogue trader would pay premium credits for this salvage. [Corrupted] -Static- <Ragged Breathing.> What was that light?! Where did they come from? Where did they come from? Oh, Emperor protect my sorry ass! Harkus? HARKUS?! <Screaming distortion.> [Corrupted.] -Static- This is Gaius Lachance. I don't know how long I've been hiding. They've either killed or captured everyone in the exploratory party. I can here the pulse of the plasma engines. We're moving again. Did they lure us here? I... [Corrupted.] -Static- <Faint scrapping in the background.> They found me. They found me. Not the Astartes, oh no. No, no, no, no, no. The pretty things that lie. Clawed barbs for hands, hooves for feet. Delicate, sensuous bodies... The things they make a man think, so impure, so voluptuous. They're here. Do you hear them? <Manic laughter.> They whisper such depravity. The master tells me that I'm their plaything. Serve them I must. [Corrupted.] -Static- <Ragged, broken screams.> <A different voice - scraping, baritone.> We're here. This is our galaxy. Forged by our hand, our lives, our blood. Too long have you thought we were myth. No longer. We're coming for you. <Screaming abruptly stops, wet gurges briefly follow then stop.> We the ++Data redacted. Inquisitor clearance insufficient.++ are coming. Praise ++Data redacted. Inquisitor clearance insufficient.++. Look to the skies. <Keening distortion, followed by whispers.> +++Inquisitor clearance insufficient for remaining transcription.+++ +++Remaining transmission corrupted beyond repair.+++ +++End transcript 784593.79939T3A01+++ +++Thought of the Day: All souls cry out for salvation.+++ +++END TRANSMISSION+++ The Legions Shatter "For good or evil, may no Space Marine forget where he came from." –The Emperor of Mankind When Horus failed to slay the Emperor in the Siege of Terra, the Emperor’s Children fell back to the Eye of Terror. Capturing slaves and pillaging systems as they went, the legion began to fracture. When Fulgrim’s legion reached the Eye of Terror, what little order remained within the Emperor’s Children crumbled. Fulgrim abandoned his sons after his battle with Roboute Guilliman and left the commanders of his companies grasping for the reins of power. Feuds erupted and warring factions fell upon one another. Individual lords rose and fell, companies shattered and reformed until there was precious little left of the original legion. Some of the remaining fractured companies went deeper the Eye of Terror, seeking their lost Primarch, while other fractious warbands, battled across the Eye of Terror against each other and against remaining defeated traitor legions for supplies, slaves and territory. The Rising of the Phoenix “The Siege of Terra was the beginning of the end for our glorious Legion. When Horus failed us against the Emperor, all was lost. We followed our brothers to the Eye, slaughtering and enslaving entire systems at our pleasure. Fulgrim left us. Horus failed us. We have fallen on our own blades with petty infighting. We’ve grown complacent, a mere shadow of the glory we once embodied: the perfection of all of the Warmaster’s legions. We lost our way, my brothers.” –Aleister Valerius, Lord Commander of the Nephilim Aleister Valerius Aleister Valerius, once a notable lieutenant of the illustrious 3rd Company under the command of Marius Vairosean. Aleister embodied the ideals of the III legion set forth by Fulgrim: vainglorious, precise and above all, calculating. For a brief time, Aleister was seconded to the Night Lords prior to the Emperor’s censure of Konrad Curze. Though his time with the VIIIth legion was short, Aleister returned forever changed. Once a flamboyant dilettante, he returned a cold-eyed killer; where he once felt joy and excitement he was now the epitome of icy perfection. Aleister’s face once a mirror of his primarch’s golden effulgence, now a skinless, raw affront to the Emperor’s Children sensibilities.When Marius was slain by the Iron Hands filth, Ignatius Numen, Aleister competed fiercely to replace his slain captain, viewing it as both his duty and rightful inheritance. Aligning himself closely with Fabius Bile and his fleshsmiths, Aleister Valerius positioned himself to rise quickly within the ranks of the Emperor’s Children. Aleister Valerius, once a second captain of the 3rd Company elite of the Emperor’s Children, battled endlessly across the Eye of Terror securing the future of his warband. Much like his inspiration and fallen commander Vairosean, he was emotionless, cold and calculating in assembling those loyal to him, the original ideals set forth by Fulgrim and the lessons instilled by his time with the Night Lords. Aleister forged alliances with the Dark Adeptus and brought as many of the smaller warbands under his banner. Using guile, charisma and force of arms, the warband expanded. Infamous for seeking out a rival Emperor’s Children forces, he would engage the leaders of the warbands in one-on-one combat and absorb the warband into his own, those who dissented, slain with their fallen leader, their gene-seed reclaimed. Aleister has a particular ritual in which he carefully removes and preserves the face of worthwhile opponent and surgically places his over own facial musculature. Valerius molded his warband into an amalgamation of IIIrd legion martial perfection and unrelenting warpcraft. The apothecaries of the Nephilim continued their quest for genetic perfection, performing horrifying experiments on both the willing legionnaires and terrified slaves. Aleister expanded the Kakophoni program and worked closely with Fabius Bile and the Nephilim's own fleshsmiths perfecting the noise marine surgeries. Expanding his own knowledge of warpcraft he recruited sorcerers and daemonologists, experimenting with possession and summoning. The Exodus "As we destroy what we once built, there are fewer wonders than there were. Feast on this one, and as we slaughter in it's shadow, remember that we, the children of Terra, once dreamed to accomplish." -Eidolon, Lord Commander Primus of the Emperor's Children, prior to the defense of the Kalium Gate The Keeper of Secrets “Long shall be your suffering. Joyous be your pain.” – Asteroth, Daemon Prince of Slaanesh The Coming of the Covens As the Legion rapidly fell after the events of Istvaan, the remaining chaplains began to preach ascension through perfection.The flesh-weaving apothecaries carried out their works on willing subjects, constantly expanding upon their already vast understanding of physiology. As the Legion began to dabble in warpcraft, it was only time before repressed psykers began to explore more avenues of power.To have once flown so close to the sun, only to have fallen so far.

Hi, Chainsword Cookie here. I have been lurking around the corner for some time until I have decided to join the fray and start anew with this new edition. Honestly I was unsure which force to pick and this is my first proper foray into the Warhammer 40k universe, but Chaos it is. Death to the False Emperor! My hobby experience so far comes from reading the Black Library books, playing various GW skirmish games and from time to time playing a game with my friends armies. I think it is high time that I begin an army of my own. It is nigh impossible to resist to the lure of the new Warhammer 40k edition and the new Chaos models, it's influence is corrupting. So here we go. I Chainsword Cookie, a newly minted Chaos Lord (and hopefully not a soon to be Chaos Spawn), shall build myself a new Chaos army. I am counting on your help brothers, for a long and arduous road is ahead of me, but with you on my side Daemonhood beckons. http://shrani.si/f/38/4h/4nrAYovA/2/chainsword-cookie-chaos-.jpg My plan is to paint the Death Guard models in the starter set and expand it with the new releases as they come. The owner of the store were I go for my Warhammer fix told me that there will be a campaign during this summer and we will get points for painted stuff so I will try my best to keep the pace. Let's see how this project turns out. I am very eager to play as soon as possible with an army I can call my own. See you soon...

Hey all! Welcome to my shiny new thread. Some of you will know me from my 30k Iron Warriors and Dornian Heresy White Scars threads that I’ve had up here over the years, among other things. In the last year I’ve moved across the country and, unfortunately, there wasn’t a lot of room to bring those projects with me! A crying shame, I know. However, that has left me with a clean slate to start a new force! No more half-finished projects staring at me, begging to be completed. At least not for a while. So, I’ve decided to go ahead with an army I’ve wanted to put together for years - the better part of a decade, actually. Black Legion! Some of you may faintly recall my Fifteen Fangs warband, which I built way back in 2018, when Kill Team first came out. That was my first foray into CSM, but, after finishing the conversions, the project never went anywhere. Until now! When visiting home a couple months back the models caught my eye and I got inspired to take them and expand them into a full Black Legion force. But more on that later. Today my offering is the one and only, the unmistakeable, Warmaster of Chaos: Abaddon, the Despoiler. Abaddon has been my favourite character in the setting for a long while now - ever since I first got my teenage mitts on ADB’s Talon of Horus, an experience I’m sure a lot of you can agree with. Needless to say - other characters from the book will be cropping up here and there in this thread. Over the last few weeks I’ve chipped away at the big guy, and finally finished him up today! He was an absolute blast to paint, and a really excellent model all around. A few notes about creative decisions: • I decided I wanted that infamous red underglow, and it was the first part of the model I’d say was in anyway completed. Looking at it reminded me of the iconic Horus V the Emperor painting, so I decided to paint that fallen marine on the base as a Blood Angels Sanguinary Guard - with an mind towards making the broken wing statue on the base appear as though it was the wing from said Sanguinary Guard’s jump-pack. I wanted Abaddon, clad in black and gold terminator armour, wielding his father’s talon, and stood over a winged, golden-armoured warrior to look the spitting image of his own father - a sort of meta life-imitates-art take, with an ironic twist in that Abaddon probably would hate to know how similar he appears to Horus in this moment I have captured him in. • Left the cape off - I wanted that classic Abaddon silhouette that alluded to his old mini. Cool as the cape looks, it doesn’t feel like Abaddon to me. Plus it obscures some cool details to be found on the back! • Trophy rack - I had so much fun painting up some of my friend’s armies as trophies mounted on Abaddon’s spike rack. We have an Ultramarines lieutenant as played by my friend James, and my friend Raj’s green-and-black Tyranids. I’ve purposefully left the left-most skull (which has Space Marine Bionics attached to it) partially unpainted, so I can add another space marine faction if desired. Coming up - I’ve got plans for a terminator retinue for Abaddon, with a member representing each of the chaos gods. I also have a squad of possessed, and the aforementioned Fifteen fangs kill team, which I will re-photograph to be added to this thread later on. And that’s all for today folks! Cheers for reading, stick around if you wanna see more! If you want more frequent updates, my Instagram, @jallens40k, gets WIP photos as often as I work on my minis. Laters!