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I hope it is fine to open this thread; I figured I'd take the initiative since none of the mods have made one. If not, feel free to delete it. So yeah, the Beta Garmon book is slowly arriving in people's mailboxes and I figured we might as well discuss future projects and ideas. What Oaths are people looking at in terms of options? I definitely want to build a force of the Fangs of the Emperor and I'm thinking about going for either Panoply of Old (World Eaters) + The Broken Helix (Aberrants) to represent the rapidly induced and broken creatures Harr would funnel into the siege, or go for either of the two Oaths but with Only in Death does Duty end (feels rather fluffy). Still a bit a bit mad that we cannot take Rites of War; feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. What're people planning on doing? Any fun interactions you noticed?

Kind of what the title says, though I'm not really asking about it. Instead I've calculated when it's worth it to fish for critical hits when you've got rerolls and when not to and thought I'd share it with the class! This is specifically impactful for marines because of OoM. For this exercise I want to show when it's worth fishing for critical hits, and when it's not, in regard to Lethal Hits, Sustained Hits. To start I wanted to establish that I am referring to 'fishing' as the practice of rerolling all dice rolls that do not score critical hits, including normal hits, instead of just failures to hit. Of course this only applies where rerolls are allowed. Sustained hits Sustained hits are only mathematically worth fishing for when the sustained number is equal to or greater than your to-hit number. For example, sustained hits 2 is worth fishing if you have a 2+ to hit. If your sustained hits number is 1 less than your to-hit number there's statistically no point to rerolling as your chance of hitting, including the sustained hits, is exactly 1. For example, inceptors have SH 2, which is one less than their 3+ to hit, which means that if you roll enough dice the number of total hits will equal the number of dice rolled. In other words, fish if you feel lucky, don't if you don't. The probability is that the results will be the same. If your sustained hits number is 2 lower than your to hit roll, it's not worth it. For example, a Heavy Bolter (with SH1) firing at BS 3+ is not worth fishing for. Lethal hits Lethal hits are a bit trickier as you need to factor in both the to-hit roll and the to-wound roll. If the chance of landing a successful wound from an attack with lethal hits (without rerolls) is greater than the chance of landing a successful wound per regular hit, then fishing is worth it. This is less often than you'd think. For each combination of to-hits and to-wounds, see the tables below. Combined lethal and sustained hits. These are trickier still... and I really don't feel like going into detail about how I calculated the results! You may ask about the effect of twin-linking... im not going to do the math for these, but I think that would swing the numbers slightly in favor of not fishing. Anyone who wants to prove or disprove that can knock themselves out! Moving on, let's see what happens when you throw 5+ crits in the mix. I'm not going to calculate sustained or LH individually as I don't think that's going to happen often enough to be worth my time. We want to know about lieutenants/biologis' with fire discipline! I thought about doing dev wounds, but the occasions where you have rerolls to wound on a dev wound weapon are few and far between. That said, it's most useful on targets that are wounded easily but would be getting a good save against a normal wound. Shooting at Saint Celestine with a gladiator reaper's main cannon would be a good example. Anyway, I hope this has been useful.

What would you say is the best loadout and role for two squads of Sons of Horus Cataphractii Terminators? One squad will be with Maloghurst in a Landraider and the other will be with a Master of Signals in a Landraider..

I had an interesting game yesterday against Imperial guard, it was fun, but sadly a big loss for Death guard. My main problem with the opposing list was that he brought so many tanks and artillery which I could not make a serious dent in. So what I wonder is how to take care of tank lists. His army was roughly Tank commander (Leman Russ Punisher) 2Leman Russ demolishers 1 manticore 1 Colossus Vulture Gunship with Gatlin cannons. Bullgryn supported with a shield wall psyker. Some token imperial guard infantry units My list was weak against his from the start, I knew that, my only reliable way to take care of a high toughness heavy armoured unit is with my poor pbc, which was down to the last bracket after his first turn, he went first btw, hiding against artillery is hard. So I wonder how will we be able to take care of those targets, I fear both their new codex and a heavy tau list. Are the Blighthaulers a good option? Cower hoping is not an option against as their artillery and fliers will tear death guard to shreds no matter were you are standing. I was thinking of using cultists as meat-shields for our characters, and teleporting in terminators. So what are our options against tanks, PBC and Blightghaulers only?

Welcome to the Eternal Crusade! This book has been something people wanted for four editions and to see it finally happen has gotten a lot of people rather excited and both new and old are going to be digging into the codex. As such I'm going to endevour to keep this updated with changes as they happen so this first post can be relevant for some time to come. If any sections change they'll be marked with the date they were last updated, as will the title of the thread. Who are the Black Templars? A second founding chapter hailing from the lineage of Rogal Dorn and first led by the first Captain of the VII Legion Sigismund, the first Emperor's Champion the Black Templars are not known for walking in the footsteps of the Imperial Fists or even paying basic lip service to the Codex Astartes. They organize into squads not based on length of service or specific assignment, but rather common cause and the needs of the mission. But you're not here to find out some rote description anyone could read off a wiki, so I present the words of Baldemort ( ) instead for he has done the chapter more justice in a few short minutes of description than I could far more words: "It is often said that the Ultramarines are the most numerous, have over sixty percent or more of all Space Marines before the Indomitus Crusade and the Primaris Marines. It is said that they have held the walls of the Imperium for all that time. For ten thousand years. It is said that they are the true defenders of the Imperium. That without them, the Ultramarines, that the Imperium would have fallen. Aye, maybe. Hard to refute by way of logistics. A good defense is key after all. But I would like to pose another vision: The Imperium stands today due to the Eternal Crusade! For the best defense is not the best offense, the best offense is the best defense. Fight them on their ground, in their space. Ravage their worlds. Strike first. Strike hard. The Ultramarines are professional soldiers. They are trained and organized, but they are not knights! They are not the burning fire that frees nations and eradicates dictators. The Ultramarines hold the walls; it is the Black Templars who sally out! And I say the forces of Chaos, Xenos, Heretic, Mutant, and Witch have not eroded the Imperium because they have been on the back foot. Because of the Eternal Crusade! The Black Templars are one of the most efficient recruiting and training factions within the Imperium. Their losses are staggering, but their war is eternal. Just think of how many enemies of the Imperium they have taken down. Taken out. Neutralized before they ever smashed against the walls of Ultramarines chapters. They equip their men with vast factorums within their vessels. They recruit the best from where ever they purge and move on. They are trained in the crucible of battle. The Crusade is as every bit as efficient as Ultramar, and every rapacious as any splinter from a Hive Fleet of Tyranids. They come. They see. They conquer. They move on! This. This is why the Imperium still stands! This! Because the Black Templars leave the Ultramarines and the others to defend the Imperium. For them the Scouring never ended. As the Great Crusade never ended. It was not complete. And it is only the Black Templars who keep the fires of the Crusade alive. It is only the Black Templars who are true to the wishes of the Emperor. And it is only the Black Templars who keep the Emperor's dream alive!" Why Play Black Templars? There should be only one reason to play the Templars: because they set your soul alight with the flames of zeal and you wish to bring the Emperor's wrath down upon the foe, but if you're just here for a more competetive breakdown I'll do my best. Black Templars have all the strengths of Codex: Space Marines, minus Librarians of course, along with six unique datasheets, six extra warlord traits, six extra litanies, several relics, as well as Vows which supplement the Doctrines from the codex by providing bonuses to the army (along with drawbacks as well). They are more melee focused than the vanilla codex fitting them in with the ranks of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and White Scars geneseed chapters, though less focused on hit and run tactics or punishing the opponent for daring to get too close but rather they're more about the sustained assault where they can grind the foe down through a sustained assault. Black Templars are one of the two loyalist chapters who can drown the opponent in ceramite (the other being Space Wolves), this build being classically refered to as the "Black Tide", and even with Primaris we can take 60 bodies in Crusader Squads for less than you would if you took 60 Intercessors or Tactical Marines thanks to both variants of Crusader squads being supplemented with Neophytes who hit just as hard as the Initiates do in melee despite being less armored and having worse leadership (Firstborn Neophytes also have one less wound). This build best exists as a form of skew list, but it's incredibly striking to see on the table and is a long time favorite of many older players for the visual it creates. Supplement Breakdown For the purposes of the breakdown I'll be covering both the supplement and the codex, discussing everything relevant to the army as completely as I can and describing the roles those items can fill. This is not to grade the competitive nature of any item as looking at how strong something is on paper alone can lead to overlooking potential choices and combos for specific list building or playstyles strictly because those things aren't "competitive" on paper. If you want to be the best (or just win games more often) you can't just rely on what looks to be the best on paper, you need to be willing to experiment, try new things and look past the obvious stuff in the book and think about the roles various units can fill and flex into them as the meta shifts over time. So that's what I aim to do here. Sadly due to the main codex being a tome capable of knocking out a Warlord Titan if dropped on it I won't be deep diving into the codex proper. I will try and touch onto some of the things that stand out to me from there, but there is no timely way to break that codex down in its entirety in a timely manner, so I suggest that after getting a feel for the Black Templar supplement that you take some time looking at the codex again with the special rules and options we have in mind. Chapter Tactic Righteous Zeal: Re-roll advance and charge rolls for units with this tactic; ignore wounds inflicted by mortal wounds on a 5+ A strong bonus allowing us to make it into combat sooner and more consistently and giving us much needed protection from moral wounds, something that has become increasingly prevalent as the ways to generate mortal wounds increases in the game. Also one of the chapter's sources of anti-psyker protection by blunting any mortal wound generating power the psyker is able to get off. Vows Anyone familiar with Codex: Space Marine supplements will be familiar with the idea of "super doctrines", but for those looking at Black Templars as their first Marine army: Codex: Space Marine supplements usually have special doctrines for the chapter that the army gets in addition to any other bonus from Doctrines that the army would get that turn. Black Templars don't get those. Instead they get one of four Vows chosen at the end of the Read Mission Briefing step (so after both players have constructed their lists and the board has been set up). There are also some ways to trigger a unit to gain an additional vow and unless otherwise stated both the effects of the Vow and Passion apply to that unit. This means if you have a unit under two Vows for any reason they'd also be restricted by the Passions that come with those vows. Suffer Not the Unlean to Live: Each time a model in a unit with this vow makes an modified melee to-hit roll of 6 against a non-Vehicle unit the attack automatically wounds the target. Passion: Each time a unit with this Vow declares a charge they must charge the nearest unengaged by Black Templar units non-Aircraft unit within 12". Previously the Knights of Sigismund special rule this bonus is back to help Templars hunt Orks, Wraith Constructs, Tau Suits, Plague Marines and Tyranid monsters. Best paired with as many bonus attacks as you can bring this makes it easier to drag high toughness models down through volume of attacks. Doesn't work against vehicles, and comes with a harsh stipulation to charge specific targets that could force you to fail charges by being required to declare long charges you can't make due to engaged units being in the way this requires a meta of big stompy things, and a lot of careful movement. Probably best against Death Guard since their slower movement means it's harder for them to manipulate your charges as easily if you're trying to get as much of your army engaged as possible. Uphold the Honour of the Emperor: Models with this vow have a 5++ and can't be wounded on unmodified to-wound rolls of 1-2. Passion: Units with this vow can't gain the benefits of cover against enemy attacks. One of the obvious winners of the book and likely to be seen in most lists (unless GW nerfs it to not apply to vehicles in the future) since it gives a much needed invulnerable save to our vehicle options, as well as allowing us to never be AP'd out of a save like many other chapters can. The diet version of Transhuman across the entire army only adds to the durability by making it harder to wound us. Also pairs well with Crusader squads of either type since they're not likely to be able to get cover due to their size, allowing them to weather more punishment while they move in to punch the enemy in the face. With chainswords. The inability to benefit from any kind of cover means that you'll need to play smarter around controlling line of sight to your units. Additionally this turns off camo cloaks completely since those require you to "recieve the benefits of cover" so be aware if you like to run Scout Squads, Eliminators or other Phobos units in your crusade. Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch: Once per battle during the first movement phase, if there are any Psyker units in the opponent's army units with this vow may add 3" to their movement characterstic. Each time a model in this unit makes a melee unit against a Psyker unit re-roll to-wound roll of 1. Passion: Units within 18" of an enemy psyker can't perform actions. Highly situational, but great for getting a jump on armies like Thousand Sons and Grey Knights (or Eldar) who like to bring a number of psykers this helps us punch them harder as well. Not the strongest ability we have, but the re-roll to-wound rolls of 1 can free us up from needing to bring Castellans for the re-roll in a psyker heavy meta. If you think you might need to take this one just don't choose secondaries that require actions to gain points to prevent your opponent from gaming your list out of points. Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds: Units in engagement range of enemy units gain the benefit of the Assault Doctrine instead of the active doctrine. Each time the unit fights add 1 to the attacks characteristic of models in the unit. This does not stack with bonus attacks from Shock Assault. Passion: Units with this vow can't fall back. If you aren't taking this vow, you'll be finding ways to turn it on if only for the ability to flex into the Assault Doctrine while the army remains in the Tactical Doctrine, but the ability to get bonus attacks during multiple turns spent in combat is always a win making this a great vow for when we need to grind down the enemy in melee through volume of attacks (looking at you Orks, Necrons). The inability to fall back can, and likely will, get units killed, or just let the opponent keep feeding units into combat with our engaged units while they run around scoring points elsewhere. Stratagems Supplement Devout Push: No longer allows us to drift into combat, but still provides a double pile in, or the ability to grab objectives on your opponent's fight phase. Vicious Riposte: Potential mortal wounds back while dying in combat. Situational, and possibly best popped on full sized Crusader squads rushing into melee blender units like Incubi. Crusader's Wrath: Army must be in the Assault Doctrine during your command phase to activate, but if you do until the start of your following command phase to-wound rolls of 6 increase the AP of pistol and melee weapons used by 1 which stacks with the Assault Doctrine. Ever want Astartes Chainswords that can cleave at -3AP? This is how you do it. For the Emperor's Honour: Force an enemy character to fight one of your characters in engagement range until the end of the fight phase. Ever want to force Abbadon to fight your Emperor's Champion like your channeling Sigismund himself? Best used to force beat stick characters to attack a character while a larger unit buries it in attacks. Bombastic Delivery: Allows a Black Templar Chaplain to automatically inspire a litany they know, and then recite one additional litany. Keep 2CP on the side for this one because with the army's reliance on Chaplains (at the least our reliance on Grimaldus) it's good to be able to use this one at a moment's notice to ensure that we can get a key litany off when we really need it. With 13 total litanies chances are there is at least one that'll support how you want to play so being able to use them at will is always worth the CP, much less the ability to then attempt to get a second litany off as well. Revered Repositories: A Sergeant or Sword Brother model can get one of the following relics: Witchseeker Bolts, Sword of Judgement, Skull of the Cacodminus, Master-crafted weapon, Digital weapon. We can only use this stratagem once, and we can't use it to give a model two relics, or duplicate an existing relic but this still allows some great flexibility in the army. Heir of Sigismund: A Black Templar Character that is not named character who is your warlord can have a second warlord trait, but it must be taken from the Black Templars Warlord Traits table and you can't take the same trait twice. Ever want to see how hard you can make a heretic explode? Wonder no more because the answer is here for 1 CP. Champion of the Feast: Choose a Sergeant or Sword Brother in your army add 1 to the mode's attacks and wound's characteristic and improve their weapon skill by 1. RIP. AND. TEAR. Templar edition. Expect to see this on Bladeguard Veteran Sergeants, Terminator Sergeants, or on Vanguard Veteran Sergeants just to ensure that the maximum amount of pain is dished out. Abhor the Witch: If an enemy psyker within 24" of a Black Templar unit passes a psychic test and a Deny the Witch attempt is made, deny that power on a 4+. Still strong, but less strong against Grey Knights and Thousand Sons who have ways of preventing you from deny their powers. Tenacious Assault: 4+ to prevent an enemy Infantry or Beast unit from falling back. We like being in combat, this keeps them from leaving combat. Everybody wins. The enemy wins death, but a prize is still a prize, right? Strength of Conviction: Objective secured for a Black Templar unit until your next command phase. Endless possibilities of denial with this one, especially with durable units like Bladeguard Veterans or Thunderhammer/Stormshield Terminators who will force the enemy to work harder than they want to shift them back off the objective. The Emperor's Will: A Black Templars Infantry unit that Advanced this turn can shoot with Pistol, Rapid Fire or Assault weapons, and Assault weapons do not gain a penalty to hit from Advancing. Move fast and shoot like you're taking a Sunday stroll. Always a win. Shock and Awe: You you like Land Raider Crusaders? Good. This lets you make a normal move with a Land Raider Crusader and then disembark the unit inside. The unit won't be able to move again after disembarking that phase, but it can still charge later in the turn meaning you can drive up a Land Raider, unload Terminators or your other favorite Firstborn melee unit into the enemy lines and start smashing face. Exemplars of the Crusade: Choose a Sword Brethren unit during the Fight Phase. Until the end of the phase when models in that unit roll an unmodified 6 to hit scores 1 additional hit. For context Sword Brethren have 3 attacks base, which means a unit of 10 with Astartes Chainswords can do 50 attacks a turn (3 base + 1 Chainsword + 1 for Shock Assault/Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds) averaging 41.33 hits without re-rolls (33.33 hits + 8 bonus hits). Obviously less appealing the less attacks you get, but even the base 30 attacks the unit can throw out should still see 5 bonus hits on average making this well worth the CP. Heretic's Pyre: Costs 2 CP if the unit has the Mk. X Gavis keyword, otherwise costs 1. Basically flame weapons in the unit gain the benefits of Blast: against units of 6-10 models do a minimum of 3 attacks, and against units of 11+ models make the maximum number of attacks. 2 CP for a unit of 3 Flamestorm Aggressors to do 36 flamer hits automatically? Well worth it if you need to thin some hordes. Incendiary Shells: Shooting phase only. Astartes Shotguns in the unit become Damage 2. While this seems like the best pick for this might be a Crusader squad as you can bring 8 in the Primaris Crusader Squad or 10 in the Crusader Squad, this is probably best used on the humble Scout Squad. 10 shotguns and the ability to be dropped near the enemy or stuff 5 into a Land Speeder Storm is more a better place to spend the CP since they can more readily get into the enemy lines and put the shotguns to use early game unlike Neophytes in Crusader squads. Codex Honor the Chapter: Assault Intercessor Squad in engagement range can fight again. Probably the biggest reason to take Assault Intercessors over the cheaper Crusade Squads beyond the ability to run them in smaller numbers in an Impulsor. Transhuman Physiology: Are you taking Primaris? Then you're using this. Costs 1 CP for units of 5 or less, and 2 CP otherwise. Great for keeping large bricks of Primaris Crusaders alive thanks to forcing your opponent to not wound on better than a 4+. Rapid Fire: Intercessor or Veteran Intercessor Squad from the army can shoot again. If you're taking Intercessors or Veteran Intercessors then it's worth keeping this in mind. Especially if you need to clear a screen so a nearby melee unit can charge a key target instead of being forced to charge what's left of the screening unit. Gene-wrought Might: A Primaris unit selected to fight automatically wounds on to-hit rolls of an unmodified 6. We get this as a vow, but not only does this work on vehicles, but it doesn't come with a Passion that restricts where units charge and should always be kept as a option when dealing with tougher enemy models that you need to force as many saves on as possible each turn. Power of the Machine Spirit: Essential to keep around if you plan on running Land Raider Crusaders, but also good on Repulsors (if Repulsors ever come down in points). Wisdom of the Ancients: if you're running a Dreadnought it's worth keeping this in mind as a way to flex into helping core units within 6" re-roll hit rolls or wound rolls of 1. Great for any army, but even better for Black Templars who can trade those Castellans away for more Chaplains if you keep this in your back pocket. Commanding Oratory: 2 CP and you auto-inspire one litany that hasn't been recited by a friendly model this turn. That's right, we have two ways to force litanies through any turn we want. Steady Advance: Only useful for counting stationary after a normal move, this still allows you to get heavy weapons tucked away in Infantry squads moved into better position without sacrificing your ability to hit the opponent. Adaptive Strategy: Always handy to keep around since it allows us to flex a core unit into all the doctrines. More situational since we can take a vow to be in the Assault Doctrine while in melee, but worth having for those games we need a different vow. Orbital Bombardment: You don't even have to use this one but rather remind your opponent that you have it before rolling off before deployment to force them to not castle up. And if they do castle up, drop hell on them. Shock and Awe: Yes, there really are TWO stratagems with the same name. Good job GW. Lets us turn off Overwatch for a unit within 6" of a unit with the Adeptus Astartes Shock Grenades or Land Speeder Storm keywords and then force that unit to subtract -1 to hit until te start of our next turn. Probably not going to see use unless we're running Shotgun Scouts in a Storm, but worth knowing about due to GW naming two stratagems the same thing. Smokescreen: Important for one reason: Firstborn Crusader Squads with any Neophytes in them have the Smokescreen keyword and can force a -1 to hit against the unit shooting them giving the Crusader squad a bit more durability since their Neophytes only have 1 wound each. Litanies Before diving into the litanies proper, there are two things worth noting: a Chaplain can only know Litanies of the Devout (from the Black Templar supplement) OR Litanies of Battle (from Codex: Space Marines). They can NOT mix and match litanies, so if you want both you'll need two different Chaplains. And Grimaldus only takes Litanies of the Devout. This does not apply to Litany of Hate which all Chaplains still get as normal. Supplement Litany of Divine Protection: One Black Templars Core or Character unit within 6" of the Priest gains a 5+ FnP. Not my first pick, but if you want you can make a 20 man Primaris Crusader Squad have a 5++/5+++ and be unable to be wounded on 1s/2s. Nurgle eat your pus-filled heart out. Psalm of Remorseless Persecution: One Black Templars core unit within 6" making melee attacks does 1 mortal wound when rolling to-wound rolls of an unmodified roll of 6. Maximum 6. Great on units with high volumes of attacks like 20 deep bricks of Crusaders with Chainswords, or 10 model units of Sword Brethren with chainswords. Plea of Deliverance: Black Templars Core or Character unit within 6" of the Priest stops being affected by ANY psychic powers and are not affected by ANY psychic powers until the start of your next command phase. Useful for shutting down smite engines, but also fun for team games since you can look your partner dead in the eyes and shut off the buffs they gave you because you don't need their dirty witch powers. Fires of Devotion: Black Templars core or character unit within 6" of the Priest adds 1 to the attacks characteristics of models in the unit. Want to do 60 Chainsword attacks with 10 Sword Brethren? How about double piling in a Primaris Crusader Squad and doing 100 attacks? Chainsword go brrrrrr indeed. Pair with Gene-wrought might if you need to get past high toughness values and watch things melt under the bucket of dice they'll need to roll for saves. Feverant Acclamation: A Black Templars Core or Character unit gains an additional Vow. RAW this does not end, nor does it prevent you from stacking all four vows onto a single unit. I expect an FAQ on this, but until then enjoy seeing if you can get all four litanies onto a unit of Sword Brethren in a single game. Hard mode is to not use EITHER stratagem to force litanies to go off when doing this. Oath of Glory: Priest can fight first if it's in engagement range at the start of the fight phase, Crozius, artificier Corzius or Relics that replace Crozius do 2 additional hits on to-hit rolls of unmodified 6s, priest gains +1 strength. Codex Catechism of Fire: <Chapter> Core or Character within 6 of the Priest. If you want to maximize your shooting, this helps by forcing more wounds through by adding +1 to wound rolls if the unit shoots the closest target. Great for units that can maximize their shooting to clear screens or force elite units to take more saves. Exhortation of Rage: <Chapter> Core or Character within 6" of the Priest. +1 to wound in melee? This is one of the biggest reasons to take the Litanies from the codex since we can throw buckets of attacks but don't innately wound or hit easier. Recitation of Focus: <Chapter> Core or Character withing 6" of the Priest gets +1 to hit when shooting. Pair with Catechism of Fire to maximize your output. Canticle of Hate: <Chapter> Core or Character unit within 6" of the Priest gets +2" to charge, and an additional 3" when piling in. Pair with Devout Push to allow you to move up to 12" by piling in 6" twice. The other big reason to take the codex litanies since it makes charges easier, allows us to really push into the enemy lines, or completely encircle the enemy unit with a large Crusader squad. Warlord Traits Note: The Emperor's Champion doesn't have a set Warlord trait but can choose any of the Black Templars Warlord Traits. Supplement Epitome of Piety: Allows your warlord to attempt to deny one psychic power as if they were a psyker, and gives them +1 to deny. Grimaldus' trait (the servitors don't count as the Warlord for the purpose of the trait). Good second trait, or a trait to put onto a character who isn't your warlord via a stratagem, but not my first pick unless you constantly see Psykers in your meta, or Grimaldus is in charge. Paragon of Fury: After the Warlord completes a charge they gain +1 strength and roll a D6 for each enemy model in Engagement Range of it and on a 5+ the enemy suffers a mortal wound. RAW they don't stop gaining strength each time they charge since it doesn't have an end state, but that is likely to change in the future. Until then enjoy the additional 2-3 points of strength you can likely pick up every game. Master of Arms: If the Warlord is in engagement range of any enemy units it fights first. Additionally the Warlord has +1 added to their attack characteristic (no this doesn't trigger more than once). Decent as a second trait if you're double dipping traits for a warlord, or as a way to let the Emperor's Champion reap more when using their Sweep Attack. Inspirational Fighter (Aura): Black Templar Core units within 6" of the warlord making a melee attack improve their AP characteristic by 1 on an unmodified roll of a 6. This stacks with the Assualt Doctrine. This does not say it stacks with Crusader's Wrath which might be worth an FAQ. If it can enjoy your -4AP Chainswords. Front-Line Commander: +1 advance and charge rolls for the warlord, additionally each time a Black Templars Core unit declares a charge against a unit that the Warlord is in engagement with add +1 to their charge roll. Helbrecht's trait. Good for Helbrecht, though less synergistic. Good thing for Helbrecht that units generally want to follow him into combat thanks to his other rules. Oathkeeper: Warlord is eligible to heroically intervene 6" horizontally and 5" vertically and can heroically intervene up to 6". Great for Larping as a Space Wolf. Codex Imperium's Sword: Warlord re-rolls charges (we already do that), and if the Warlord made a charge move or heroic intervention in the same turn it fights (and until the fight is resolved) the Warlord adds +1 to their strength and attacks characteristics. Pair this with Master of Arms or Paragon of Fury to stack further attack or strength bonuses on this and gain either a free shoulder check on the charge or a fight first ability. Iron Resolve: +1 wound, 6+++. Situationally good on a secondary warlord character like a Castellan. Champion of Humanity: No. Just take an Emperor's Champion instead. Rites of War (Aura): <Chapter> Core or Character within 6" of the Warlord gains objective secured. Good for sticking on a Chaplain who hangs out with Sword Brethren, Terminators or Bladeguard. Better as a secondary warlord trait though so there is less of an incentive for your opponent to go after this character first. Relics Supplement Crusader's Helm: +3" to aura abilities (max 9"), in your command phase one Black Templars Core unit within 9" is considered to be in the Assault Doctrine until your next assault phase. More situational now that the entire army can slip into the Assault Doctrine by getting into engagement range under the correct vow, but still a good choice if you need to stretch out an aura of re-rolls across more combats. Witchseeker Bolts: Special bolter ammo that lets the bearer make a single bolter shot that ignores Look Out Sir for when targetting Psykers and does d3 mortal wounds on a successful hit roll in addition to any additional damage. Best paired with an Eliminator Sergeant to let you reach out and touch a psyker before they can be a real threat. The Aurillian Shroud: Once per game you can unveil the shroud during your command phase, granting the bearer an aura of 4++ to Black Templars Core Infantry units within 3" until the start of your next Combat Phase. Put it on a character between two large blocks of Crusaders and force your opponent to be unable to them. Ancient Breviary: Chaplain rolls one additional dice when attempting a litany and discards the lowest. Great choice for a support chaplain to ensure they can get litanies off without spending CP (or being Grimaldus). Skull of the Cacodominus (Aura): Enemy psykers within 12" have -1 to their psychic tests and suffer a perils on a roll of any double. Additionally once per battle you can unveal the skull to gain an ADDITIONAL aura of -1 to psychic tests with a range of 18". Yes they do stack. And yes Grey Knights lost their +1 to cast bonus army trait in this last codex update. Enjoy making them fail to cast more often. Against Thousand Sons it merely resets them back to their roll (assuming no other bonuses) since they get an innate +1 to cast. Sword of Judgement: S+3, AP-3, D3 sword that replaces a Power Sword, Master-crafted Power Sword, or Relic Blade. If you're making a beatstick you're probably taking this. Or using the bit off the upgrade sprue to replace the Judiciar's sword with something more chapter appropiate. Adamantine Mantle: Bearer gains a 5+++. I'm not especially fussed about this one with all the other ways we have to buff durability (plus I'd rather take the Sword of Judgement), but if you need to keep a character alive it's an option to up their durability. Artificer Armour: Bearer gets a 2+/5++ save. Not bad, but Indomitus Armour also gives a 2+ and we can get a 5++ from one of the vows so this is more if you want a better save for a second model and the first already took the Indomitus Armour. Master-Crafted Weapon: One model the bearer has (that does not have the Master-crafted word in it's profile) gains +1 damage. Best paired with the new autoplasma or autoflamer since it applies to both profiles for maximum effect. Digital Weapons: Bearer gains +1 additional attack using the close combat profile in the core rulebook. If it hits the target suffers a moral wound and that attack sequence ends. Splash mortals each attack isn't bad (especially if you hit on 2+) but I feel like this prevents us from taking some of our more interesting weapon options. Probably best on a Sergeant if at all. Aquila Immortalis: +1 to bearer's toughness and attacks characteristics. Not going to lie, for a pure buff relic I do like this one since if both makes the bearer harder to kill and ups their fighting potential. Stack with the warlord traits to up the number of attacks the bearer gets to add +3 to the bearer's base profile and blend away! Perdition's Edge: S+3, AP-2, D2 weapon that replaces the Power axe or master-crafted power axe. Also does 2 mortal wounds on an unmodified to-hit roll of a 6 (and then ending the attack sequence). Nice option if you like power axes and lots of attacks. Breath of the Throne: Combi-flamer or auto-flamer replacement with 12" range, Assault D3+3, S5, AP-1, D2. It's a heavy flamer that hits at least 4 times each time it shoots. Not bad, but not my first choice for any model really. Tannhauser's Bones: Each time an attack is allocated to the bearer the damage characteristic of that attack is reduced to 1. Great for making characters that your opponent just can't kill easilly, but watch out for buckets of dice being thrown your way since you'll still go down to massed failed saves. Codex Benediction of Fury: S+2, AP-2, D3, unmodified to-wound rolls of 6 inflict 1 mortal wound in addition to normal damage. Replaces a Crozius Acranum and is best on a more aggressive Chaplain who is expecting to end up in combat. Reliquary of Gathalamor (Aura): Enemy Psykers in 18" have -1 for psychic tests and if they fail roll a d6, on a 4+ they suffer D3 mortal wounds. Pair with the Skull of the Cacodominus to create a -3 to psychic tests for a turn and force psykers to not cast or suffer a potential D3 mortal wounds. Standard of the Emperor Ascendant: +3" to the bearer's Astartes banner ability, and allows you to re-roll moral tests for <Chapter> core units within the range of the banner's ability. Great for supporting large Crusader squads and ensuring models don't break as easilly. Teeth of Terra: S+1, Ap-3, D2, +3 attacks for the bearer and now available to Primaris Castellans thanks to the new wargear options! The Armour Indomitus: +1 wound, 2+ save, once per game 3++ until the end of phase. The classic for characters you want to keep alive in the thick of it, now even better since the army can have an always on 5++. The Burning Blade: S+3, Ap-5, D2 and replaces a power sword or master-crafted power sword. Honestly just not as good as the Sword of Judgement since D3 is more relevant than D2 thanks to the numerous ways of reducing damage, as well as many things you'd want to use the AP-5 on having an invulnerable save negating at least 2 points of AP. The Shield Eternal: Replaces a storm shield, relic shield or combat shield. Grants a 4++, adds +1 to the bearer's armour save, and grants a 5+++. If you need to create an anvil this is a solid way to do it. Less good to give to the Primaris Captain with a Relic Shield since he has a 4++ already, but still a good pick if you need to add a layer of durability to a model. The Vox Espiritum: No. Take the Crusader's Helm. It does what this does plus has a bonus ability. Tome of Malcador: Put it on the pyre. Relic Bearers Available to a Black Templars army as long as it contains at least one Black Templars Chaplain unit this allows us to sprinkle up to eight additional relics into our army for a small points cost per relic. Each Black Templars Core Infantry or Black Templars Biker unit may only have one of the relics, none of the relics may be duplicated and the model must be distinct but does NOT have to be the unit's Sergeant or Sword Brethren meaning we can still take other relics in on them. The designer's note in the codex recommends using some of the unique bits in the Chapter Upgrade kit to represent these relics. Beastpyre: 15", Assault D6, S6, AP-2, D1 BLAST replacing a flamer or Pyreblaster. +10 points. As much as I love flamers, especially ones with ridiculously good statlines and rules like BLAST, no. Not for +20 points over the cost of an initiate for buy the Pyreblaster AND this upgrade to it. This is great, but honestly I'd rather take something else more affordable so I can take another Initiate or Neophyte instead. Bones of Mordred: Each time the bearer makes a melee attack on a to-wound roll of an unmodified 6 the bearer inflicts +1 mortal wound in addition to normal damage. +10 points. Overcosted at this price since it's not going on a character model and if you go all out and get 6 attacks with a Chainsword Sword Brethren you'll average 1 mortal wound. Pass at this cost. The Crux Obsidian: Attacks allocated to the bearer subtract 1 from the damage characteristic (to a minimum of 1). +15 points. Nice upgrade for a Storm Shield terminator or for a Sergeant you want to live after the rest of the squad has died. Be careful though because even if you pass the saves that model must keep making saves, meaning your opponent can bait this out and then use lower strength weapons to force you to fail saves by weight of dice. Fist of Balthus: Power fist replacement with Sx2, AP-3, D3. +10 points. Hits harder than a Thunderhammer, and has no penalty to hit. Enjoy casting fist with this as the bonuses are definitely worth the points bump. Holy Orb: Once per battle the bearer can select one enemy unit within 6" and visible to the bearer. Roll one D6 and on a 2+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. ADDITIONALLY, even if the mortal wounds fail, the target unit fights last. Note that because this is NOT a grenade you can throw it into combat, the bearer's or someone else's! At +15 points it's pricey but worth the points since it's more reliable than the Judiciar's aura and it frees up an Elite slot for other options. Icon of Heinmann: Attacks allocated to the bearer with AP-1 or -2 become AP0 instead. +15 points. Pricey, easy to bait out so best left on a unit with good invuls, likely on Bladeguard or Stormshield/Thunderhamer Terminators. Light of the Emperor's Grace: +1 Leadership for models in the unit, bearer gains an aura of -1 to psychic tests for psykers in 12". That's right, we can stack up to -4 to psychic tests within 12" for a whole +10 points for this and two more relics (one of which can be taken on a Sergeant or Sword Brethren). Even the aura of -3 can force psykers to give you a wide berth in order to avoid the increased chances of perils and getting hit with mortal wounds for failing to cast. If you go this route take all three on biker models so you can use your increased mobility to hunt witches. Sigismund's Seal: Nominate an enemy unit on the battle field, each time a melee attack is made by the bearer's unit against the target unit you gain re-roll to hit and re-roll to wound for those melee attacks. Good, but good luck getting your opponent to let you connect with your beatstick unit. At +20 points I'd skip this one completely honestly. Chapter Approved Rules Supplement Bathe your Blade in the Blood of Your Foe: Select a Black Templars character and your opponent selects a character (if either character doesn't have a character they instead select their Warlord). Score 5 points at the end of the battle for each of the following conditions: 1. Enemy character was destroyed. 2. Enemy character was destroyed as a results of a melee attack. 3. The Black Templar who was chosen was the one who made the attack that destroyed the enemy character. I'm not going to lie, this is a fun one to pick, but it's not a competitive one since your opponent can play around it to deny you the points. So great for casual/narrative games, less great if you want to win a tournament. Allow Not the Worhship of Unclean Idols: Score 4 points at the end of the Battle Round if you control one or more objective markers that were controlled by your opponent at the start of the Battle Round AND a Black Templars Chaplain is within range of that objective marker. I'm going to be honest: unless you're maxing out all your Chaplain options, no. And even if you are, still no. This requires you to go second to even score it with any amount of consistency and even then you'd need to have Chaplains right next to the enemy unit you just pushed off the objective meaning they won't likely be alive to help claim it back again next turn. Basically this is a worse (albeit thematic) Shock Tactics. Skip it outside of special scenario narrative games with friends. Carry Out Your Vows: 4 victory points at the end of the Battle Round if you destroyed more enemy units via melee attacks than they destroyed friendly Black Templars units (max 12 points this way) with an additional +3 Victory Points at the end of the battle if you complete an objective based on the vow you chose. This one will put you on a Crusade to complete, much less even attempt to max successfully. It's not bad, but it's hard and will fail spectacularly against some match ups. Great for fun, but don't count on it for tournament play. Codex Oaths of Moment: Score Victory Points per oath completed each battle round (destroy an enemy character, vehicle or monster for 1VP; don't fail a morale test or fall back for 1VP; score 2VP if an Adeptus Astartes unit from your army is wholly within 6" of the centre of the battlefield). Popular for a reason since it buffs Marines for being Marines, but definitely a must have for Templars who have to avoid any action based secondaries due to one of our vows (or alternatively never use that vow). A standard for most matched play games for sure. Black Templars Armoury Thanks to the new models and upgrade sprue Black Templars get options not available other chapter as detailed below. These options are in addition to any options that exist on the respective datasheets in Codex: Space Marines. Marshal Black Templars Primaris Captain who is not equipped with a master-crafted power sword, it's bolt pistol and master-crafted auto bolt rifle can be replaced with one of the following: 1 auto-flamer and 1 master-crafted power-sword 1 auto-flamer and 1 master-crafted power axe 1 auto-plasma and 1 master-crafted power-sword 1 auto-plasma and 1 master-crafted power axe I'm more partial to the auto-flamer since it can be swapped for a relic if you want, but it also means you can use the "Oh Emprah, he crusadin'" Castellan model as a Marshal. Castellan Black Templars Primaris Lieutenant can replace their master-crafted auto bolt rifle with: 1 combi-flamer and 1 master-crafted power axe to represent the Blanche Castellan, or they can trade their bolt pistol and master-crafted auto bolt rifle for one of the following: 1 heavy bolt pistol and 1 Astartes Chainsword 1 heavy bolt pistol and 1 master-crafted power sword 1 auto-plasma and 1 Astartes Chainsword 1 auto-plasma and 1 master-crafted power sword You may remember that I mentioned the Teeth of Terra some time back, this is why: one model from the Sword Brethren can instead be built as a Castellan which allows them to have a chainsword which can be upgraded to the Teeth of Terra relic for maximum Crusading! Regardless of what load out you go with for melee, I'm more partial to the heavy bolt pistol, though for shootier Templar players the auto-plasma will likely look decent. Additionally since the Castellan is still a Primaris Lieutenant, that means you can take two in a single force org slot giving even more options! Vehicles Black Templars Gladiator Lancer, Gladiator Reapers, Gladiator Valiant, Impulsor or Repulsor Executioners have the following option: If this model is not equipped with an ironhail heavy stubber it can be equipped with 1 multi-melta. Black Templars Repulsors have the following option: Instead of being equipped with an ironhail heavy stubber, this model can be equipped with 1 multi-melta. Honestly this option looks most attractive on the Impulsor who can be put into an army with a free 5++ (via Vow) and instead take a Bellicatus Missile Array for additional fire support for the army to give your units a decent little gunboat escort that's far more affordable than our other Primaris transport options right now. Units High Marshal Helbrecht Crossed the Rubricon, starting bringing around his attendants to keep the blood of the foe from staining his armour and making sure he always looks good for a holopict. Now sporting EIGHT wounds and 6 attacks base (plus his attendants can make no more than 2 additional attacks with their cleaning rags at S3, Ap0, D1 to humiliate the enemy if they die to it) his bolt rifle brings a melta gun that always damages like it's in half range, and the Sword of the High Marshals can either make twelve attacks at S+2, Ap-3, D1 or make his standard 6 attacks at Sx2, AP-3, D3. BUT THAT'S NOT ALL! Helbrecht has retained the Crusade of Wrath (giving +1 Strength to Black Templar Core units in 6" of him), and comes with the Rites of Battle and Chapter Master rules we normally see paired on Chapter Masters these days. Basically he's 160 points of beat stick who makes the Templars around him hit harder and will likely see a place in many armies. Chaplain Grimaldus Also crossed the Rubricon, Grimaldus has gone up to 5 wounds, 4 attacks, and now acts as a single unit with his servitors (who must have attacks to allocated to them first with 1 wound each making the total wound count for the unit 7). As the servitors die you lose the relics they hold (Banner: d3+3" Advance rolls; Remnant: 6+++ to units within 6"; Sceptre: Grimaldus gains +1 when attempting to incite a litany). Grimaldus still shares his Ld9 out in a 6" bubble to other units, and once per game he can attempt to stand back up on a 4+ the first time he dies with 3 wounds remaining (because he is too angry to die) and he can attempt to deny one psychic power as if he were a psyker (as the warlord he does it twice, otherwise he only can do it once). All in all it looks like a great bundle for 140 points but there is a major issue right now: RAW Grimaldus counts as 4 characters for Assassinate because the Servitros don't have their own keywords making them all characters. This needs a FAQ or else poor Grim will have to be too angry to die...on the shelf. The Emperor's Champion No longer available in "Classic" flavors we only have the "New Coke" based on community reactions to the model. No longer forced to take a pre-set Warlord trait (and honestly none of them are great on him) he's 100 points of beatstick glory with 5 wounds and 5 attacks. Sadly he lost any rules pertaining to enemy Monsters but the Black Sword now comes in Sweeping (S+3, AP-3, D2) and Thrusting strike (Sx2, AP-4, D3, -1 to hit) flavors. No longer the mandatory inclusion he once was in the last codex, he will likely see inclusion in a number of lists for being a cheap beatstick who can go after enemy support characters like a slasher villian: and if he catches them chances are he's going to leave a horror scene behind afterwards. Primaris Crusader Squad Starting at around 178 points (depending on loadout) for 10 models (1 Sword Brother, 5 Initiates and 4 Neophytes) and able to go up to 20 models (1 Sword Brother, 11 Initiates, and 8 Neophytes) for 356 points (before paying for loadout options) they aren't as flexibile as the Firstborn Crusader Squad, but their Neophytes come with 2 wounds standard and the unit has the Primaris keyword allowing them access to Primaris only stratagems it's a not a weak option. The Iniitiates come standard with auto bolt-rifles for +1ppm, but can instead take heavy bolt pistols and Astartes chainswords for free (and 2 for every 10 models can take a power fists instead of a chainsword for +10ppm allowing you to put up to four power fists in a unit of 20). Neophytes come with regular bolt pistols and Astartes chainswords but can swap for Bolt carbines (24" range, Assault 2 bolter profile) or Astartes Shotguns (18" range, Assault 2 bolter profile) all of which are included in the Neophyte's point cost. The Sword Brother can have a Heavy Bolt Pistol and Power Sword or Power Axe. The Heavy Bolt Pistol can be exchanged for a Pyre pistol (Pistol D6, S3, AP-1, D1, autohits). Honestly I like the squad tooled up for melee the most, but I have to say I am a little sad you can't use the extra power weapons from the sprue with the Initiates, nor can the Sword Brother take the weapon options available in the Sword Brother kit, or even a chainsword. I know that unit options are far more limited than they used to be (as we can see when looking at the classic Crusader Squad who can take so many wargear options that you could make a nigh infinite number units of them and never duplicate your load out from one unit to the next) but they were so close to greatness for what we're working with. That said the base of the squad leans into shooting or melee rather solidly and can perform both roles solidly and makes a good backbone for a Primaris crusade thanks to coming in cheaper than the Intercessor troop options thanks to the Neophytes in the squad. Crusader Squad 5-20 models with Initiates now costing 18ppm, and Neophytes costing 13ppm they still have all the previous wargear options they had access to and benefit from the Smokescreen keyword. Initiates have 2 wounds, 1 attack base and Neophytes have 1 attack and 1 wound. They punch softer than Primaris Crusaders in terms of volume of dice, but their depth of options and tactical flexibility is going to keep them around for some time into the future, assuming GW brings the upgrade set back. Sword Brethren Starting at 88 points for 4 models (putting them a mere 3ppm over Primaris Initiates) each model brings 2 wounds and 3 attacks to the table, and comes standard with a Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword, but any number of them can have a powersword instead. The rest of the wargear options swap for the chainsword are limited to 1 per 9 models or less, or 2 if the unit contains 10 models: Thunder hammer 2x Lighting Claws (it's one set that goes on one model) Power Axe Power Maul Plasma Pistol (replaces Heavy Bolt Pistol instead) Pyre Pistol (up to 2 models for 9 or less, up to 4 models at 10 models, replaces Heavy Bolt Pistol) Looks like a mess, right? Here's the thing: the best way to this unit is to NOT go all in an all the special weapon options we have available and instead build around chainswords or power swords and take the one or two sets of the special weapons we need for the role we're flexing them into. Dealing with a lot of GEQ hordes? Chainswords and Lighting Claws with Heavy Bolt Pistols. MEQ? Power Swords, Lighting Claws, and possibly plasma pistols. Basically our best use for this squad is to build for the sort of things we want to throw them at and ignore the other options. Those left over bits can be used in other squads to splash some alternate Templar weapons onto Sergeants, or you can magnetize the entire unit so you can always swap to whatever you need in this part of the meta cycle. It's a flexible unit that can be kitted up for any job and is the only unit in the supplement who is not affected by the Vow's Passion. Additionally they can also combat squad, making them the able to be taken in a unit of 10 and split up into two units with different jobs to keep our investment in slots down. They won't outfight Bladeguard or out manuever Vanguard Veterans, but they definitely have a place in most lists as a toolbox unit that can be used to handle a number of jobs, or just kept cheap with chainswords and thrown into enemy units where they can Rip and Tear like the best of them. ++NO PITY++ ++NO REMORSE++ ++NO MERCY++ [RESERVED FOR FAQS]

Probably not super-optimised because there are some models I just don't have (I would also proxy the Redemptor), but I hope this could perform reasonably... What Dou you think? ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [77 PL, 11CP, 1,500pts] ++ + Configuration + **Chapter Selector**: Space Wolves Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) Detachment Command Cost Gametype + Stratagems + Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics + HQ + Bjorn the Fell-handed [10 PL, 180pts]: Multi-melta Captain on Bike [6 PL, 105pts]: Black Death, Bolt pistol, Hunter, Power axe, Warlord Lieutenants [4 PL, 80pts] . Lieutenant in Phobos Armour: Morkai's Teeth Bolts + Troops + Blood Claws [6 PL, 90pts] . 4x Blood Claw: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Blood Claw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword Blood Claws [6 PL, 90pts] . 4x Blood Claw: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . Blood Claw Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword Incursor Squad [5 PL, 115pts]: Haywire Mine . 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . Incursor Sergeant + Elites + Bladeguard Veteran Squad [10 PL, 175pts] . 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield . Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol Redemptor Dreadnought [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon + Fast Attack + Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]: Cyberwolf Cyberwolves [2 PL, 30pts] . 2x Cyberwolf: 2x Teeth and claws Thunderwolf Cavalry [7 PL, 185pts] . Thunderwolf Cavalry: Storm shield, Thunder hammer . Thunderwolf Cavalry: Lightning Claw, Storm shield . Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Storm shield, Thunder hammer + Heavy Support + Long Fangs [7 PL, 185pts]: Armorium Cherub . Long Fang: Multi-melta . Long Fang: Multi-melta . Long Fang: Multi-melta . Long Fang: Multi-melta . Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Meltagun + Dedicated Transport + Drop Pod [4 PL, 70pts]: Storm bolter ++ Total: [77 PL, 11CP, 1,500pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Edit: Sorry, wanted to post this in the army list sub+thread actually...

With 3 out of the 4 cult marines no longer being in our codex I wanted to discuss how best to utilize them. Them not gaining legion traits sucks, but I still think cult marines are still pretty useful. Here's what I have so far: Berserkers: -Still hit very hard in melee, getting exploding 6s is a very good boost -Fury of Khorne for tough units -Veterans of the long war still really good -+1 Str from mark -Run with a khorne priest to get wanton massacre early Rubric Marines: -+2 shots with flamers make the now 3pt warpflamers threatening -Another cheap psyker on the board -Surprisingly tough with mark of tzeench + all is dust + AoC -Demon shells for -3 bolters -Can be a good backfield unit with warp-born foresight Plague Marines: -The free wargear is very good (3 Plasma guns for free with a 10 man squad) -Pretty tough with Mark of Nurgle + AoC Noise Marines: -Lots of support with EC -+1 Dmg within half range + veterans on sonic weapons is powerful Side note: While not the main topic of this thread I wanted to bring up Confluence of Traitors and cult marines. Because of the wording on the stratagem saying "Until your next command phase, models in that unit have that legion trait" I think it is actually possible to give a cult marine unit a legion trait. My argument for this is that the word "gains/gain" is used when talking about abilities that a unit gets both the before game begins, and last all battle. Where has, "have" is used for when a unit is temporarily given an ability for a turn. I don't actually believe this would work in a real game, and is a case of extremely rules lawyering but I thought it would be interesting to bring up.

This is another channel I follow regularly, although my favourite is the Brits, these guys posted an excellent video on terrain and how they go through setting up the best table possible to play on that creates a fair and exciting match. Here's the link. It's a great video and I'm posting it here for my GK bro's who really need help protecting their troops and getting the best possible fair game of 40k in! This has helped me and my gaming group greatly and creates a fairer matchup and fun for both people. As always, take it with a grain of salt and do what you want, but it's well worth checking out.

Hello fellow Wolflords, I recently watched a tactics video on Wulfen and Thunderwolf Cavalry (Anvil of War), and the guy was very much against taking Wulfen with just the Wulfen Claws. Which kind of got me thinking... What if he's wrong

- WELCOME BACK - With the release of 9th edition and our shiny new supplement it seems we've good reason and cause for some new discussions relating to our units. Every week we'll feature a new unit available to the 6th with the purpose of discussing the tactics, use, and synergies around them. The Space Wolves are also about legends, sagas and great deeds as well so each week will also kick off or feature a showcase for you bloodclaws and longfangs alike to show off your units and inspire your battle brothers. These discussions will be archived to allow for reference by the new and old as well! Note, this isn't to overly focus on any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; if you feel something is a better choice make your case in a constructive way. - Week 1 - - Drop Pods - How do Space Wolves best use Drop Pods? Wargear? Which strategems are worth throwing out? Any solid unit combos? What say you fearless Warriors of the Rout? And please post your finished orbital death taxis here!

++HORMAGAUNTS++ We have a new unit of the week! This week it's Hormagaunts, one of the Iconic Tyranid troop choices, and tarpitter supreme. What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use a unit of them? To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)? What size unit? Will you be running multiple units? What Hive Fleet Traits, Adaptations and Stratagems do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices? Are you buffing this unit? If so, how? Over to you.

There are varying degrees of experience in the Horus Heresy community but most of all we want to recruit others, so I'm going to start a series of discussions and encourage others to do so that focus on the more mundane questions to the veterans amongst you. The intent behind this is to build a foundation of knowledge for people to draw from and attract others to a friendly and informative guide from fellows from within the community. Starting with the pride of a non-Primarch Legion force and the character and beatstick, let's talk about the Praetor. Questions we can answer - what weapons to give a Praetor, what armour (i.e. what type) and who to run him with? How does this differ from Legion to Legion, or army build to army build, Rites of War included? Please share your thoughts, including your experiences or just your themed preferences if you like. There's room for all sorts here!

Hey guys, I wanted to get some opinions on the 'best' secondary objectives for us. I've been struggling with that part of the game a bit, mostly because I'm so caught up in list building, strategems and all that jazz that I treated them as an afterthought in the past. In general, I'm not a huge fan of the concept in itself and if it were up to me, I would probably drop the whole layer of codex-specific-secondaries from the game tbh. But since they're part of the game, I'll have to get a grip on them, I guess. I have used some of the Space Wolves secondaries in the past, with rather mediocre success. Some of the "Kill-X" objectives seem fun and fluffy, but also situational. I once tried "Oaths..." from the Marine codex, which seemed to provide value a bit more reliably (forgot about moving a unit in the center in each round though, because I'm an idiot). Anyway, what are your recommendations? What is your approach in general? Do you have a set plan for secondaries already in advance, or do you choose depending on mission and or opponent? Thanks in advance, ranulf

Grey Knights take it once more at recent tourney! Army list winners: https://spikeybits.com/2020/10/top-3-40k-army-lists-fall-brawl-tournament.html All GK infantry, over 75 models, including a Brotherhood Champion, 10 Interceptors, 15 Purgation, 20 Strikes....AND 30 Purifiers! So cool to show GK army has potential for a variety of competitive builds now. Even surpassing runners up: - 3rd Place DA Deathwing Army (majority Terminator models) - 2nd Place Necrons Army (the beastly Silent King included) Again, so cool!

Hey all. I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread discussing the lists and tactics people are using in SW:A with their Guard. Feel free to post up any army lists you're working on and discuss any tactics that have or haven't been working for you. To be honest, any Imperial Guard SW:A chat is welcome here. At the minute, I'm working on converting up a Veteran Kill Team based on one of the Black Library Novels. You can check out their progress in my thread. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321424-stuff-thangs/ Here is my provisional starting list. 1. Veteran Sergeant with lasgun, camo gear 150 2. Veteran with lasgun, camo gear 90 3. Veteran with lasgun, camo gear 90 4. Veteran with lasgun, camo gear 90 5. Veteran with shotgun, lasgun, camo gear 110 6. Special Weapons Operative with plasma gun, camo gear 155 7. Special Weapons Operative with sniper rifle, telescopic sight, toxic rounds, camo gear 155 8. Special Weapons Operative with grenade launcher (frag), camo gear 160 1000/1000 The plan with this list is to buy two recruits without any other gear after my first game, to bring me up to maximum team size. They'll try not to die in the second game (as I don't believe you can give traded gear to a recruit before their first game). I will then give one the shotgunner's spare lasgun and use my 100 points to get a lasgun and camo gear for the new recruits, and a smattering of new gear for the vets. Sound like a decent plan? In my opinion, it looks like lasguns are a better plan than shotguns, but I have the model and it's more of a rule of cool thing. That said, if anyone has had success using shotguns, let us know. I don't know if the special weapons I've chosen are the most optimal, but I thought it would be more interesting to try different weapons than to spam the "best" gun. One option for my list is to drop the spare lasgun and give the sgt. a bolter and grab a clip harness for the sniper? Do people think this is a better option? Dallo

The good folks at Goonhammer have finally updated their very comprehensive Space Wolves Tactics article. This is a must read for Space Wolves players. I do think they undervalue Bjorn the Fell-handed, but otherwise, it is excellent analysis. Val

I decided my lists needed more close combat power so I've added Vanguard Veterans to it. My point in creating this thread is to discuss uses and load outs and my peers experiences. I'm thinking Jump Packs are mandatory. The speed is crucial and being able to drop in along with another unit (like Terminators) adds saturation. What sort of wargear do people consider decent? I wanted 3 power axes, Sergeant with twin lightning claws and 3 with Storm Shields and chainswords. The last 3 members I'd get double chainswords for extra oomph. However, the unit isn't overly powerful in assault, particulary against tough targets. Twin lightning claws instead of power axes gives an extra 3 attacks to the unit and rerolling to wound is better than S5 in many cases. Problem is the cost. It mounts up. What do folk consider here? What do you use your Vanguard for? What do you arm them with?

An interesting discussion... How do we get the best out of Stratagems when using the Ultramarines? Mentioned in another thread, should we burn through our Stratagems quickly whilst we have the units still alive or save them for later on to for something decisive when both sides have lost a lot of models? I'm thinking it's a matter of using the Stratagems as soon as possible, providing the benefit of doing so is measurably worthwhile. What does this mean? Well, be bold. If you want your Tactical squad jumping out of a Rhino with plasma and Grav Cannon to attack a powerful target then do it while you can soon as you can! Wait too long and the opponent might stop you or blunt the attack. Conversely, save the Command Point if your Sternguard are shooting at stragglers of a unit instead of using Masterful Marksmanship. That's an obvious waste but there will be times when you have similar options. Ask yourself "would I benefit from this Stratagem above and beyond the alternative of not using it?" I want a minimum of 7 Command Points in a 2000pts game, 6 in a 1500pts game. With 7 Command Points, I'll spend them a couple a turn until I have only a couple left then evaluate what I absolutely need to keep the CPs for. I'm not big on the 3 CP Stratagems personally. They are mostly over costed but one exception could be a counter charge with a Terminator squad against something beastly and using Honour the Chapter. Imagine charging into Mortarion with a Terminator squad and Dreadnought. He is unlikely to kill both and if he goes for the Dreadnought then you could hit him with Honour the Chapter. Potentially game winning. Death to the Traitors! looks interesting in a similar manner. I build my list now to use the Stratagems as best I can. It's our strength thanks to Scions of Guilliman, our Warlord Trait and every unit being able to hurt every unit. I make sure I have at least 1 Heavy Bolter so I can use Hellfire Shells. I try to use Sternguard so I can use Masterful Marksmanship. I have strong Tactical squads so I can benefit from Scions of Guilliman. I have Terminators for assault so I can use Death to the Traitors! and Honour the Chapter. Lastly, we have the best Warlord Trait for an army built for Stratagems. Refunds are amazing and will frustrate your opponent. Take Adept of the Codex EVERY TIME people! I'm interested in hearing other peoples musings on the subject. :)

I've been thinking that defeating armies with Mortarion in them will require some quite specific methods, to the extent I considered Frater would want to access that information directly. In this topic we will discuss 2 aspects to the same problem in an aid to winning a game against a Death Guard army - killing Mortarion and beating an army with him in it. I consider killing Mortarion to be quite difficult to do. He's got a monstrous amount of wounds and a nearby sorceror can heal him D3 wounds a turn I believe. Added to Disgustingly Resilient and we have a character that will likely last to the end of the game. So what ideas to players have to kill Mortarion? I'm considering people need help when not using Guilliman or an Imperial Knight. Bracketing him with a Devastator squad for a few turns can drag down his wounds regardless of how tough he is, but it might require some guts to finish him off. He's coming for you! He won't stand there and let you shoot him! Maybe a Terminator squad counter attack would help? Whacking him with power fists is going to hurt but can they survive back? I'm thinking it's Cataphractii and Assault Terminators only who can counter charge him to hold him up. On that note, holding him up whilst we punish his army is the other side of that coin. He costs a lot of points so if he is fighting 5-10 Terminators all game you're still up!

Hi All, Been creeping the forum for a while, but this is my first post (once I have a couple more painted Templars I'll make a post for my crusade). Anyway, I recently went to Warhammer World in Nottingham and purchased the exclusive Primaris Rhino/Land Raider Excelsior box and am wondering if you guys have any good ideas of how to fit them into a list. I can see the LRE working well as an assault vehicle with TH/SS termies since it give re-rolls to 1's, but only having 10 transport capacity makes it hard to fit in the characters that I feel are needed for CC support. I guess keeping it in the backfield with some extra long range support and a Castellan could work too. I'm very interested to hear other ideas

Hey everyone! So I'm working on building 4th company of the Dark Angels. I've got all six of the tactical squads on the way and I'm trying to decide on a few things. First I am running all plasma. Plasma Gun/Cannon on my normal tacs. But I need to figure out if I want to go with Combi-Plasma or Plasma Pistol & Thunder Hammer/Power Weapon. Any thoughts on the selection between those two options? Second Should I combat squad the tactical squads so I can keep the heavy weapons a little more stationary and in firing lanes?

The generic 8th edition thread is a monster now so in the name of logic and organisation, I'm starting a thread to isolate discussion focused on particular aspects of gaming. This one I would like to kick off with a focus on the characters, minus Guilliman, that Ultramarines can make use of. Guilliman is so important he's likely best off in his own topic ;) though of course there will be some cross over here where relevant. Now, one of the things I like about our characters is there is literally an option for each of us and our playstyles. You want a cheap HQ to save points for elsewhere? Take Telion or Chronus. You want a tank heavy army? Chronus can make a Land Raider the equivalent of a Knight Titan! Then we have the leaders of the Chapter. As befitting of our characters, they enhance the models around them as well as kick Xenos and Heretic tail across the galaxy. I'm loving Calgar. His human side really has shone through in Dark Imperium, whilst his Terminator Armour allows him to literally go toe to toe with almost any model in the game (fittingly Guilliman owns him with the Emperor's sword). Half wounds means there isn't a weapon in the game that can do more than 3 wounds to him in a single turn. That means it is impossible for 2 lascannons to kill him! Lastly, I love his Terminator armour because I'm moving to a position where my main attack force are Teleporting Cataphractii Terminators. He can join them to provide amazing killing power and a 7 wound model right in amongst the enemy where the Gauntlets of Ultramar are squishing fools. Anyone else have anything they'd like to share?

So I was thinking of doing a wonky, multi purpose assault squad in a Corvus.... but then I started thinking about the Frag Cannon and Rhino rushes since i'm not too keen on Drop Pods. Then it hit me that multi Frag teams in Rhino's could be a very strong unit if used correctly. So they are assault weapons... that Auto hid 2D6 times. T1, Rhino moves, and advances. T2, Unit disembarks (beginning of turn now) within 3" and moves/advances and then ignites everything it can. Units assaulting are taking 3-4 Frag Cannons x 2D6 auto hitting. Units get too close? Move away, "advance" away, each frag cannon can still hit 2D6. This is the way I'm reading it. And it seems like a potentially strong tactic just simply because the Frag is S6, and that's going to do work against a vast majority of stuff, and anything it can't reliably hurt you'd just switch modes. I'm just thinking of some of the nasty assault armies I'm seeing and in the last edition you didn't see them as much but when you did they were extremely difficult to deal with, but now the Frag overwatch, and ability to allow 'advancing' and Fragging seems potent. What do you guys think? Is this valid or am I missreading something?

Newer AM player here. Got in very late in 7th, but really didn't play too much. Like many, I was aiming to run a mech guard list with veterans as the backbone. With their movement to Elites and the removal of doctrines, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to run my lads. We have the traditional options: Meltacide in Valkyrie or Chimera Demo Vets in Valkyrie Plasma Vets with Carapace in Chimera Sniper vets with an Auto cannon and camocloaks (for objective holding) Are any of these builds still viable? I'm sensing that they can still be good in a Valkyrie with Melta and shotguns. Still a suicide squad, but effective. Thoughts? How are you guys going to be running Veterans?

So I've been throwing some list together for 8th edition the last few weeks, and by a few I mean an unhealthy amount. With my Raven Guard I tend to stay away from tanks and fliers and try to keep a more marine based force with assault troops, scouts and land speeders. This of course puts me at the difficult position of squeezing as much my anti-tank fire power as I can from units that might not be as effective at it. For example, I might run double multimeltas on my land speeders, missile launchers in scouts squads, heavy weapons in sternguard and devestators etc... One of my go to options has always been melta bombs on my vanguards. As I was going over the rules I saw that the melta bomb was a grenade with a 4" range. That seemed fine to me until I realized that grenades can't be used in the fight phase and must be used in the shooting phase. Hmmm...this seems like a big nerf to my favorite explosive... I'm kind of struggling to come up with a scenario where a 4" range shooting attack would come in handy...For example take a basic vanguard squad with melta bombs; your options are: Deepstrike 9" away from target and shoot. [melta bomb wont be in range] Deepstrike 9" away and charge. [melta bomb can't be used in close combat] Walk the Vanguards to the target and "shoot" the melta bomb when within 4" Option 3 is the only way to make this work, right? I'm not missing anything? This is kind of a bummer as exposing vanguard veterans usually means your vv's wont be on the board the next turn. Also, most of my targets for melta bombs were usually the enemies back field support vehicles which will be difficult to reach without getting shot to pieces. At least if the melta bombs were usable in combat you have a chance to get the charge off, now they seem kind of neutered. What do you guys think? Am I missing something?