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I hope it is fine to open this thread; I figured I'd take the initiative since none of the mods have made one. If not, feel free to delete it. So yeah, the Beta Garmon book is slowly arriving in people's mailboxes and I figured we might as well discuss future projects and ideas. What Oaths are people looking at in terms of options? I definitely want to build a force of the Fangs of the Emperor and I'm thinking about going for either Panoply of Old (World Eaters) + The Broken Helix (Aberrants) to represent the rapidly induced and broken creatures Harr would funnel into the siege, or go for either of the two Oaths but with Only in Death does Duty end (feels rather fluffy). Still a bit a bit mad that we cannot take Rites of War; feels like a bit of a missed opportunity. What're people planning on doing? Any fun interactions you noticed?

Grey Knights take it once more at recent tourney! Army list winners: https://spikeybits.com/2020/10/top-3-40k-army-lists-fall-brawl-tournament.html All GK infantry, over 75 models, including a Brotherhood Champion, 10 Interceptors, 15 Purgation, 20 Strikes....AND 30 Purifiers! So cool to show GK army has potential for a variety of competitive builds now. Even surpassing runners up: - 3rd Place DA Deathwing Army (majority Terminator models) - 2nd Place Necrons Army (the beastly Silent King included) Again, so cool!

++HORMAGAUNTS++ We have a new unit of the week! This week it's Hormagaunts, one of the Iconic Tyranid troop choices, and tarpitter supreme. What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use a unit of them? To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)? What size unit? Will you be running multiple units? What Hive Fleet Traits, Adaptations and Stratagems do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices? Are you buffing this unit? If so, how? Over to you.

- WELCOME BACK - With the release of 9th edition and our shiny new supplement it seems we've good reason and cause for some new discussions relating to our units. Every week we'll feature a new unit available to the 6th with the purpose of discussing the tactics, use, and synergies around them. The Space Wolves are also about legends, sagas and great deeds as well so each week will also kick off or feature a showcase for you bloodclaws and longfangs alike to show off your units and inspire your battle brothers. These discussions will be archived to allow for reference by the new and old as well! Note, this isn't to overly focus on any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; if you feel something is a better choice make your case in a constructive way. - Week 1 - - Drop Pods - How do Space Wolves best use Drop Pods? Wargear? Which strategems are worth throwing out? Any solid unit combos? What say you fearless Warriors of the Rout? And please post your finished orbital death taxis here!

In this topic I'd like us to discuss our preferred methods for using Sternguard veteran squads in Ultramarines armies. Things to consider: - Unit size - Transportation/delivery methods - role - equipment - army synergy My current build is a fairly simple option - 8 strong, all special issue Bolters and a lightning claw on the Sergeant. This squad goes in a Rhino with a Captain. The unit isn't an isolated attack force, working alongside Cataphractii Terminators and Vanguard. With the Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem they are fairly good at killing stuff, but not to the extent of overkill really. One thing I'm considering is adding special weapons or 2 Heavy flamers. My thoughts on this was to give the unit sharper teeth when jumping out of a Rhino. 2 Heavy flamers are definitely powerful but I toyed with the idea of a pair of melta guns. What do people think about this? The squad is a hit squad so a pair of melta guns could ensure the unit is more decisive against hard targets and characters. However, heavy flamers are still powerful and hard to pass up as it makes the squad dangerous. *** What are you preferences? Someone mentioned once upon a time that Storm Bolters are better and cheaper for Sternguard jumping out of a Rhino. I don't do the maths but I felt AP-2 along with Masterful Marksmanship was quite effective? What else is there regarding this?

I am slowly getting back into 40K. The release of 8th grabbed my attention and the first few small games were fun and quick. The changes to the game has sped it up and enlivened the feel to the game. Some things are catching me out, such as the way modifiers interact with re-rolls, mortal wounds versus special saves taken to ignore wounds and the plethora of unique rules and costings. So this thread is meant to be something of a blog, soapbox and chat group to talk about my experiences and thoughts about the Unforgiven. Fluff changes: The new book contained some difficult to swallow changes, I am not a fan of primaris marines so was especially wary about how necessary GW had made them. I was pleasantly surprised to realise though that pretty much all of the new and unfamiliar units are simply another option. My lists look, feel and play remarkably similar to my old lists and this is a comforting surprise. They operate on the table quite differently because of how some of the changes affect the units. The changes to movement and deep striking keeps catching me out but I really like the impact it has on how movement and positioning matter. I can't say I'm a huge fan of bubble wrapping to counter enemy reserves and fast flankers but it definitely adds a much greater give & take aspect to piece trading. Being able to disengage from combats by falling back has so far proven one of the most influential changes to my games. Points or Power levels: I like power levels. Point costs and values are still probably the more balanced way to play but there is something nice about writing a list where you can put the list together in just a couple of minutes because you just have to worry about the units and not individual wargear. I go to a couple of clubs and at one of them power levels are the default whereas the other prefers to use points. At this stage I am happy with either as each is proving advantageous for list creation/exploitation. My most recent pair of games used each. A small 50 power game to introduce someone to the new system and a 1500pt game against the newest shiny the Adeptus Custodes. 50 Power list Asmodai Lieutenant with storm bolter & power sword Min tactical squad with plasma pistol & plasmagun Min tactical squad with plasma pistol & plasmagun Full tactical squad with power sword, meltagun and lascannon Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon Company champion Apothecary 2x Ravenwing attack bikes with multimeltas This list was pitted against Ahriman and a Rubric force of mostly Thousand sons (using the index list) with a forgefiend for some ranged oomph! The game used open war cards which are an interesting if very unpredictable way to play. The game itself was very fast paced with our deployment allowing both forces to deploy close to each other and objective scoring required aggressive manoeuvring. With the core of the Dark angel force deployed in the centre of the board and the Thousand sons wanting to get close so as to make the most of their rapid-fire and flamer weapons (and psychic powers) gambled on being able to wipe out the marines quickly. A big punch-up in the centre wiped out the sorcerer's minions and dragged them forward in front of the remaining fodder leaving them victim to the multimeltas of the ravenwing. Honour to the venerable dreadnought who not only led the charge to engage and slaughter the bulk of the rubric marines as well as ripped the forgefiend. 1500pt list Azrael Asmodai Lt with power sword and storm bolter Apothecary Company champion (eye of the unseen) 5x company veterans each with a storm bolter, 1 with a storm shield, 3 power swords, 1 power maul. Ravenwing apothecary 5 marines with plasma pistol and plasmagun 5 marines with plasma pistol and plasmagun 10 marines with power sword 10 marines with power sword 5 devastators with 3 missile launchers and 1 lascannon rhino with 2x storm bolters Ravenwing darkshroud with heavy bolter This list had to face the might of the Adeptus Custodes and I am in some ways grateful that my opponent was very limited in his options. His list featured the new special character, a second HQ, 3 five strong squads of custodes (1 squad with halberds and 2 with swords and storm shields) plus 2 venerable contemptor dreadnoughts. I can confidently say that trying to kill the new custodes is an arduous task without the right tools. Fortunately, plasma is probably one of the best options and weapons from the dark age helps inordinately. As does Azrael's aura bubbles of re-rolls and invulnerable saves. I was also helped that the scenario was from the rulebook (secure and control) which meant my opponent initially left one of his squads guarding his objective, effectively removing them from the game for most of it. I want to take time to give special mention to the Company veterans who saved Azrael's life because of the honour guard rule, dealt out impressive firepower with those stormbolters and respectable melee clout but man of the match was the storm shield guy who tanked every hit the custodes assigned to his unit. With Azrael and Asmodai nearby at all times they were very impressive and will definitely be fielding them again. Equipped this way they weren't even very expensive. The near horde of marines may not have been the biggest contributors (although the plasma weapons provided a steady stream of multi-damage firepower) and I was glad to have them. The devastators proved helpful for quick deletion of any model that did manage to fail it's save and the darkshroud was helpful in lessening the impact of the enemies guns. (Particularly because the dreadnoughts also had to contend with the mod for moving and firing heavy weapons. The following are some more detailed thoughts about some of the units I've been using. Apothecaries: These have fast become a staple of my lists and with the discovery of how well veterans can protect out characters when they get embroiled in combats I am increasingly enamoured of them. Healing a few wounds on a character is great but bringing a member of a unit back to the fight can be game changing. The basic apothecary is good because he's cheap, innocuous and rarely appears worth the effort to attack. The ravenwing apothecary however can contribute quite substantially thanks to his plasma talon and the mobility afforded by his bike. He keeps impressing me but the risk of not doing anything with his guns if I try to bring a model back does make him more focused on healing wounded heroes. Company champion: I've been giving him the relic "Eye of the unseen" to ensure he goes before enemy characters and the extra mod to enemy leadership has come into play in a couple of other games. Mostly though I regard him as just an amazing bargain for what you get. Azrael and Asmodai make him more survivable and threatening with his blade of caliban too so he has so far proven a very worthwhile addition to the army. Company veterans: In the last book my head was alway seething with ideas for how I'd like to field these guys but I rarely if ever put them on the table. Considering their versatility and low base cost I am going to be experimenting and sticking them in lists a lot more now. I am not sure about precisely how they body guard rule works against weapons with damage over 1 since it says the roll to intercept the hit comes after the character has lost a wound so currently I'm working around the assumption that it applies after damage. (So if I fail a save on Azrael against a damage 3 weapon I would then make 3 rolls to pass the damage on to the veterans. Potentially resulting in 3 mortal wounds on the veteran squad.) This can attrition the squad down very quickly so I doubt I will ever spend too many points on every member of the unit, however as a means of keeping our characters alive that little bit longer I feel this unit is now very valuable indeed. Hopefully in the near future I will be adding some more hobby related content as I get back into painting figures. Currently on the painting table are some Deathwing knights and the company veterans I have talked about in this first post.

Let's talk about Whirlwinds and now to get the best out of them. Whether you play competitive or narrative play I want to know what you think of this unit? I lean towards the Vengeance Launchers not just because of my own army build but because Damage 2 is amazing. What do people think about the Castellen launcher though? I believe if you have a Lieutenant and Techmarine hiding at the back you'll be able to boost killing power and survivability of the artillery. Lastly and somewhat marginally is the Stratagem and Land Speeders... is it any good?

Tactics for Units: Dominions Welcome back, after rather more of a break than intended, to Tactics for Units, a series of tactica articles focusing on Adeptas Sororitas units in 8th edition. Today, we’ll be looking at the most recent incarnation of one of the Sisters Militant’s most consistently bright stars; the Dominion squad. The Dominion is an Adepta Sororitas specialised in the use of a special weapon, and on the battlefield, they are often arranged into specialised units called, aptly, Dominion squads. Dominion squads have excellent maneuverability, which they leverage to bring their impressive firepower to bear at their opponent’s weakest points. Stats The Dominion squad has the same relatively average stats as the Battle Sister Squad. Of note, of course, is the BS3+, which helps them use their special weapons as needed. The 3+ save is good to help them stay alive, and their Leadership 7 (8 with the Superior) means the squad is unlikely to lose more models to Morale, should they take casualties. All things considered, an average but well rounded set of stats. Nothing special, by the standards of the Sororitas, but perfectly serviceable. Special Rules Dominions have three Special Rules; the army-wide Acts of Faith and Shield of Faith, and their unique rule Vanguard. Acts of Faith is one of the defining rules for Adeptas Sororitas, and the Dominion squad is no different. This rule allows, on the roll of a 2+, one unit in your army to make an out of sequence action that occurs before the Movement Phase. Of particular interest to the Dominion squad is Hand of the Emperor, which allows the unit to make a move as if it were the Movement Phase. With the necessity of good positioning to maximise their special weapon fire, this is a golden option for the ladies. Similarly, Divine Guidance is great, as you bring these ladies for their guns, and this doubles the return on your investment. Not much more to say beyond that! Spirit of the Martyr is a perennial favourite, as bringing back slain models is always good, especially in a squad with large numbers of model-by-model upgrades such as Dominions. The Passion is… Well, not quite worthless, but I would caution against it. Even if you give your Superior a chainsword or power weapon, the number and quality of attacks is just so poor as to make it a waste of time. These ladies do not want to be in assault, so try and keep them out. If they DO end up in combat, consider using Divine Guidance and have them shoot their bolt pistols. You will lose out on perhaps one Strength 3 hit, but in exchange get +1 to hit and +1S. Better if you gave the Superior a plasma pistol. Shield of Faith is a neat and fluffy little rule that grants a 6++ Invulnerable save. Now, with a 3+ armour save, it is unlikely that you will find yourself getting less than a 6+ save after AP is applied, but for those few times when it does? Golden. It also grants a modified Deny the Witch roll, which allows the unit to Deny using a single d6. It isn’t going to come up particularly often, given the average roll on 2d6 is 7, but it might deny the occasional low-rolled Smite, or some of the newer low Warp Charge powers in more recent Codexes. It’s a Nice To Have but nothing big, overall. Vanguard is the unique special rule of the Dominions, and it is, really, one of the two main reasons you’d run Dominions. This rule allows a unit with it to make a Move before the game begins, but after player turn order is decided. If a vehicle is transporting only models with this rule, it can make this move, instead of the unit inside, even though it does not possess the rule itself. This is a fantastic rule, and allows you do easy redeploy your Dominion squads in reaction to your opponent’s deployments, or to advance a squad up into no-mans-land, giving them a head start on hunting something down, or capping an early objective.This is well worth the additional Points per Model or the extra Power of the Dominions, compared to their Battle Sister Squad contemporaries. Equipment The Dominions have the standard Adeptas Sororitas equipment of Bolter, Bolt Pistol, and Grenades of the Krak and Frag varieties. The squad begins at Five models (Four Dominions and a Dominion Superior), and can be expanded to Ten models. Up to Four models may replace their bolter with a weapon from the Special Weapons list, and the Superior can swap her bolter for another Ranged Weapon or a Melee Weapon and her Pistol for a different Pistol. Bolters are standard. Nice strength and range, but nothing special. Bolt pistols are great to have, as you can fire them whilst engaged in combat. Grenades are always worth mentioning, as one model per unit can throw one in the Shooting Phase. If you’re within 6” and you have a spare bolter Dominion, a grenade is definitely worth considering. Which one depends on what you’re throwing at. Frag gives you d6 S3 shots, which is best against anything with single wounds that isn’t T6 or more. The Krak grenade is a single S6 shot, but it has AP-1 and d3 Damage. It’s good against multiple wound things with decent armour saves, so vehicles, monstrous creatures, and characters that aren’t T3. Also, possibly 2+ saves, though that can go either way. Given the expanded capacity for special weapons, you will almost certainly be wanting to take at least a couple. If you’re taking more than one (and you should be, really), take the same kind. There’s no point trying to cover every base with one squad. Better to focus one one thing with each Dominion squad, and have redundancy and flexibility with the rest of your army. Meltaguns are the Big Game Hunter special weapon. High Strength, excellent AP, and d6 Damage make for a fairly scary Sister. However, the unreliability of d6 Damage, the point cost, the 12” range, and only one shot prevent this being an autotake in every situation. And to compound the short range, the special ability of the melta, roll 2d6 for damage and pick the highest, only occurs within half range. So your Dominions will be getting close to something in order to perform their best. Having four in a squad makes an expensive squad, but certainly helps prevent them doing nothing due to a couple of unlucky 1s. The prospect of up to 24 damage is pretty scary. Use to take down a big threat before it can give you trouble, and to hunt Characters. Be aware of Invulnerable saves, as AP-4 won’t matter if they deflect it with a storm shield. Flamers are a useful tool. They’re relatively cheap, they automatically hit their target, and they do d6 hits per flamer. Nothing special, and they only have 8” range, but being able to hit things automatically is great. It’s good when you’re up against things that have a -1 To Hit them, such as Raven Guard or Flyers. Stormbolters. We heard you like bolters. So we took two bolters and strapped them together. Now, you can bolter whilst you bolter. The Stormbolter is the last word in getting lots of S4 shots for not very much by way of point investment. Following Mathhammer, even factoring into account the Flamer’s Automatically Hitting ability, the Stormbolter still causes more unsaved wounds Per Point Spent. Note that that is Per Point, not in a vacuum. Stormbolters achieve this by being two bolters worth of fire for less than half the points of a Flamer. Compared weapon to weapon, the Flamer deals slightly more. The Superior can exchange their bolter for a Stormbolter, a Condemnor Boltgun or a Combi-weapon. The Stormbolter is a good idea if you are arming the rest of the squad with them, as it allows you to take 5 stormbolters, meaning the squad’s firepower at 5 models is the same as a barebones BSS at 10 models. Nice. The Condemnor Boltgun is a hard pass for me. Getting d3 Damage against psykers is nice, but functionally pointless against the majority of your opponent’s army even if they do bring psyker support. If you regularly face Thousand Sons or Grey Knights, then its utility goes up substantially, but that’s the only time. Combi weapons are great, as they allow you to take a 5th special weapon AND your bolter for only a little bit more than the cost of the two weapons. Obviously, pairing combimeltas and combiflamers with meltagun and flamer Dominions is a solid bet. Taking a different one to allow for some flexibility in terms of targets is an option, but I would caution against it, for the same reason as I caution against mixing special weapons. Dominions are specialised tools. Being able to take on any kind of threat is what Battle Sister Squads are for. The Combiplasma is interesting, as it is one of only two ways to get plasma into the Sisters army. For what you pay, you get a fair bit. A good strength and AP, and the option to boost the strength AND damage. It doesn’t pair with either melta or flamer in terms of targets, but makes a nice alternative to taking another Stormbolter in a Stormbolter filled squad. Just make sure never to overcharge and fire both guns at once. It doubles the likelyhood of an overheat as well as making you less likely to hit. The necessarily short ranges the Dominion squad will be operating at means that the special pistols have some interesting potential for your Superior. The Infernus pistol is very short range, and expensive, but boasts Melta stats and damage. The Plasma pistol is a great option, as it is relatively cheap and has the great plasma stats you see elsewhere. Remember these if you find your Dominions get charged after they arrive. As is always the case with pistols, the main draw is being able to shoot while engaged. Melee weapons are either the humble chainsword or the various kinds of Power Weapons. The Chainsword is a free swap for the bolter, and grants an extra attack in combat, bringing the Superior up to 3. Still at her mediocre WS4+ and S3, but it’s not bad, largely because you don’t pay any points for it. Power weapons range from the high AP Sword or the low AP but extra strength Maul, with the balance of the axe between the two. If you want a power weapon, the best bet is the maul, as the Strength boost is the most important buff you can give a Sister in close combat. The Axe isn’t a bad option if you’re unwilling to give up quite that much AP, but the sword, while really cool, just isn’t going to cause enough wounds to use the AP-3. Tactics Dominions have three main roles, which largely depend on which special weapon they take. However, all varieties benefit from fast, aggressive play. Maximise the special weapons you take, and get them moving as fast as they can towards their target. A transport is a solid investment, and in the case of Immolators provides valuable supporting fire. Meltagun Dominions are, as aforementioned, Big Game Hunters. They have powerful and deadly weapons, and can take out high threat targets relatively easily. Taking multiple meltaguns helps shore up their low firing rate, and their speed compensates for the short range. I take units with 3 meltaguns, but only because I have 6 meltaguns in my collection, and I like running two squads of meltagun dominions. Consider taking them with 4 meltaguns. Taking extra sisters is to taste, as it limits the transport they can take (As Immolators have a maximum capacity of 6 models), and they can’t carry meltaguns, so won’t be contributing heavily to the squad’s target, but do provide a cushion so the squad can take a few casualties without losing meltagun efficacy. Flamers are good for sweeping a unit off of a point or removing an annoying and hard to hit unit. They can put a lot of pain into a small space, and all that pain is hitting automatically. Things like Stealth Suits, are all good options. They’re also terrifying for an assault unit to try and charge. Extra sisters won’t auto hit, but provide a wound cushion, someone to throw a grenade, and extra bolter shots will still hurt the sort of thing flamers are good at hurting, though not as effectively. Stormbolters are fantastic at taking and holding objectives. They are relatively cheap, so can use their speed to get up close to an objective, and then use their enormous amount of bolterfire to kill anything on the objective, or anything trying to get close. Extra sisters are a solid idea, as this squad wants extra bodies to boost their survivability, and a stormbolter is still a kind of bolter. Beware of units with Objective Secured or similar rules, as Dominions will not be able to hold onto an objective against an ObSec unit. Overall, the Dominion squad is a fast, deadly squad that can be outfitted to suit a number of roles. They benefit from specialisation, but have the rules and options to support that. What are your opinions on Dominions? How do you use them? Do you have any disagreements with my take on things? Please go ahead and share! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

The thing I like about Space Marines is the character creation you can go through. It's where the real customisation lies in our otherwise uniform army. Our character choices, particularly our Warlord choices, affect our army playstyle and build in particular. What sorts of flavour do you like to use with your characters? Who's your Warlord and what's his character? How do you use him? Show us a picture! I'm out the country at the moment so can't take a photo but I will do soon as I get home! **** My army is themed on a Victrix Guard style of Ultramarines, hence why they use a Horus Heresy era style that would be Guilliman approved. MK4 abound, with a few exceptions in the specialist squads (my Vanguard had such great options for heads) and a classic gold and blue colour scheme, my army looks more inspiring than any I had painted before. My army is lead by Captain Aetheleous: Formly of the 5th Company; wielding a plasma pistol and Relic Blade, an ancient power sword of unknown providence. Atheleous is known for being a no-nonsense and fairly humorousless commander among those under his command, though this is perhaps somewhat unfair. Those who get to know him, reserved for only a select individuals, could pick out wry comments many would miss or even assume were serious, such is the subtlety of the expression of his mirth. As befits a Captain of such character, I usually grant Atheleous the Adept of the Codex Warlord trait to simulate his commanding presence. However, I have toyed with the idea of Storm of Fire since it makes sense he would organise a firing line expertly. What do people think of that? I also give him the Sanctic Halo. It's absurdly good and means he's very survivable no matter the modifier he's up against. In fact, against anything with a modifier he's almost as survivable as a Cataphractii Captain (minus the wound). Tactically he rolls up the table in a Rhino along with solid line infantry - either Sternguard or Tactical Marines. Usually the Sternguard. He hits a particular part of the enemy line calculated to rip a hole that can't be easily filled. The way I do this is utilise Vanguard and Cataphractii Terminators (along with another Captain) to provide severe pressure on the opponent so they completely lose the initiative. Taking on the Sternguard isn't always easy in this circumstance.

Hey everyone! So I'm working on building 4th company of the Dark Angels. I've got all six of the tactical squads on the way and I'm trying to decide on a few things. First I am running all plasma. Plasma Gun/Cannon on my normal tacs. But I need to figure out if I want to go with Combi-Plasma or Plasma Pistol & Thunder Hammer/Power Weapon. Any thoughts on the selection between those two options? Second Should I combat squad the tactical squads so I can keep the heavy weapons a little more stationary and in firing lanes?

Hi all I had my second game yesterday. Matched Play, 2000 points. And I wanted to share some experiences I made. Pre-game showing off my new Stormraven: http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/game.JPG I played against an experienced player and good friend. He plays Death Guard, and has played a couple of games in 8th, totally trashing Grey Knights and Astra Militarum. Here is his list: ++ Patrol Detachment (Chaos - Daemons) [17 PL, 282pts] ++ + HQ [4 PL, 70pts] + Herald of Nurgle [4 PL, 70pts] + Troops [6 PL, 80pts] + Nurglings [6 PL, 80pts]: 4x Nurgling Swarms [80pts] + Fast Attack [7 PL, 132pts] + Plague Drones [7 PL, 132pts]: 2x Plague Drone [88pts], Plaguebringer [44pts] ++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [23 PL, 474pts] ++ + Lord of War [23 PL, 474pts] + Renegade Knight [23 PL, 474pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts], Ironstorm Missile Pod [16pts], Reaper chainsword [30pts] . Rapid-fire battle cannon and heavy stubber [104pts]: Heavy stubber [4pts] ++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [76 PL, 1241pts] ++ + HQ [20 PL, 344pts] + Daemon Prince with Wings [11 PL, 180pts]: Malefic talon [10pts] Typhus [9 PL, 164pts] + Troops [18 PL, 276pts] + Poxwalkers [6 PL, 96pts]: 16x Poxwalker [96pts] Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts] Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts] + Elites [8 PL, 147pts] + Helbrute [8 PL, 147pts]: Missile launcher [25pts], Twin lascannon [50pts] + Fast Attack [30 PL, 474pts] + Foetid Bloat-drone [10 PL, 158pts]: Plague probe [25pts], 2x Plaguespitter [34pts] Foetid Bloat-drone [10 PL, 158pts]: Plague probe [25pts], 2x Plaguespitter [34pts] Foetid Bloat-drone [10 PL, 158pts]: Plague probe [25pts], 2x Plaguespitter [34pts] ++ Total: [116 PL, 1997pts] ++ And mine: Blood Angels Lemartes 129 Librarian Dreadnought: Furioso fist (Meltagun) 207 Captain: power sword; combi-plasma; jump pack 112 8 Scouts: Scout Sergeant (sniper rifle; camo cloak); 7 Scouts; 7 × sniper rifle; 7 × camo cloak 144 5 Death Company Marines: bolt pistol; 2 × boltgun; 2 × plasma pistol; power sword; thunder hammer; jump packs 138 Death Company Dreadnought: 2 Furioso fists (heavy flamer) 212 5 Death Company Marines: bolt pistol; 4 × boltgun; power axe; power sword; jump packs 109 8 Devastators: Space Marine Sergeant; Armorium Cherub; 7 Devastators; 2 × lascannon; 2 × plasma cannon 201 Predator: twin lascannon; 2 lascannons 202 5 Devastators: Space Marine Sergeant (chainsword); Armorium Cherub; 4 Devastators; grav-cannon and grav-amp; 2 × heavy flamer 132 Razorback: twin assault cannon; storm bolter 102 Stormraven Gunship: twin multi-melta; 2 hurricane bolters 311 1.999 points My plan was to flank him with Deathcompany Dreadnought, Lemartes and Death Company Squad embarked in Stormraven. All the while suppressing him with a bubble of devastators, scout snipers and a predator. All within 6 of the Captain who gives re-roll to 1's. I would say it worked better than hoped. Here is what I find worked really well. Maybe and hopefully it could be useful for fellow Blood Angels players too?: I got turn one, and The Stormraven performed fantastic, effortlessly blasting a Helbrute and giving me first-kill. Picture of Stormraven flanking Helbrute who is hiding in building, and giving him a taste of some Multimeltas: http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/game2.jpg After that I opened up with my 'shooty-bubble' and that was pretty destructive. Plasma Cannons are really good when close to the captain. I used my Sniper Squad for mopping up, when big models had few wounds left. Also pretty effective. As a Blood Angels player I find it a bit sad that the shooting is SO good in 8th. It's not good for my motivation to field a really assault oriented force. I use my Drop Pods as door stoppers in my apartment now - and they suck at that too. In his first round he rolled 12 shots for the Knights Cannon and blasted the Stormraven pretty bad. After that he charged it with his Deamon Prince and a Foetid Bloat Drone. The Deamon Prince had two Malefic Talons (S7, Ap-2, D2) and 7 attacks. Amazingly the Stormraven survived with just one wound left. Besides that he really didn't do much damage to my army, but used his turn to move his units against me. In my second turn my Death Company dudes jumped out of the Storm Raven and began pummeling the Deamon Prince and the Drone. Honourable mentions here must be Lemartes who threw a Krak grenade in the face of the Prince giving him 3 wounds. The Death Company Marine with Thunder Hammer finished the job. After that I jumped my small Devastator Squad with Heavy Flamers and Grav Cannon out of the Razorback, and used the Cherub to give the Grav Cannon 8 shots. This was a game ender. Those 8 grav-shots I aimed at the knight and with some good dice-roll succeeded in giving the big fu!%!"#"!!'er 12 wounds. With some more shooting on the knight, I almost brought it down (2 wounds left) and with the rest I had killed, that turn, my opponent conceded. With most of the bloat drones, the Knight and the Prince out, he didn't really had much left that could hurt me. So: Devastators with Grav Cannons, and Cherubs in Razorbacks are pretty badass. The razorback moves to a good position. Next turn you let the carnage commence when the Deva-dudes jumps out. Signum and cherub on grav-cannon on big target = pain for you opponent. The Bubble with the Captain and Devastator Squad/Sniper and Predator is really strong. My predator was the weakest part here. I'm not sure about those Lascannons. They are really hit and miss! And when you finally get that punishing wound through you always seems to roll a 1 or 2 for the wounds - whats up with that!? The Plasma Cannons on maximum power was much more consistent. My Captain was probably MVP. He actually succeeded in giving the Knight two wounds himself with his Combiplasma - but it was the bubble he created, that made the difference. The Stormraven with the Deathcompany loadout is strong AND fun. Lemartes + dread + 5 guys with jump packs deploying in the flank are really fast and hit like a brick. My Librarian Dreadnought didn't do much. It's too slow and not destructive enough. And very costly. Don't know if I'm gonna keep this guy. My newly painted Stormraven: http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/Storm1.jpg My also newly painted devastators: http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/Devastators2.jpg I hope someone my find this interesting when compiling an army.

The generic 8th edition thread is a monster now so in the name of logic and organisation, I'm starting a thread to isolate discussion focused on particular aspects of gaming. This one I would like to kick off with a focus on the characters, minus Guilliman, that Ultramarines can make use of. Guilliman is so important he's likely best off in his own topic ;) though of course there will be some cross over here where relevant. Now, one of the things I like about our characters is there is literally an option for each of us and our playstyles. You want a cheap HQ to save points for elsewhere? Take Telion or Chronus. You want a tank heavy army? Chronus can make a Land Raider the equivalent of a Knight Titan! Then we have the leaders of the Chapter. As befitting of our characters, they enhance the models around them as well as kick Xenos and Heretic tail across the galaxy. I'm loving Calgar. His human side really has shone through in Dark Imperium, whilst his Terminator Armour allows him to literally go toe to toe with almost any model in the game (fittingly Guilliman owns him with the Emperor's sword). Half wounds means there isn't a weapon in the game that can do more than 3 wounds to him in a single turn. That means it is impossible for 2 lascannons to kill him! Lastly, I love his Terminator armour because I'm moving to a position where my main attack force are Teleporting Cataphractii Terminators. He can join them to provide amazing killing power and a 7 wound model right in amongst the enemy where the Gauntlets of Ultramar are squishing fools. Anyone else have anything they'd like to share?

An interesting discussion... How do we get the best out of Stratagems when using the Ultramarines? Mentioned in another thread, should we burn through our Stratagems quickly whilst we have the units still alive or save them for later on to for something decisive when both sides have lost a lot of models? I'm thinking it's a matter of using the Stratagems as soon as possible, providing the benefit of doing so is measurably worthwhile. What does this mean? Well, be bold. If you want your Tactical squad jumping out of a Rhino with plasma and Grav Cannon to attack a powerful target then do it while you can soon as you can! Wait too long and the opponent might stop you or blunt the attack. Conversely, save the Command Point if your Sternguard are shooting at stragglers of a unit instead of using Masterful Marksmanship. That's an obvious waste but there will be times when you have similar options. Ask yourself "would I benefit from this Stratagem above and beyond the alternative of not using it?" I want a minimum of 7 Command Points in a 2000pts game, 6 in a 1500pts game. With 7 Command Points, I'll spend them a couple a turn until I have only a couple left then evaluate what I absolutely need to keep the CPs for. I'm not big on the 3 CP Stratagems personally. They are mostly over costed but one exception could be a counter charge with a Terminator squad against something beastly and using Honour the Chapter. Imagine charging into Mortarion with a Terminator squad and Dreadnought. He is unlikely to kill both and if he goes for the Dreadnought then you could hit him with Honour the Chapter. Potentially game winning. Death to the Traitors! looks interesting in a similar manner. I build my list now to use the Stratagems as best I can. It's our strength thanks to Scions of Guilliman, our Warlord Trait and every unit being able to hurt every unit. I make sure I have at least 1 Heavy Bolter so I can use Hellfire Shells. I try to use Sternguard so I can use Masterful Marksmanship. I have strong Tactical squads so I can benefit from Scions of Guilliman. I have Terminators for assault so I can use Death to the Traitors! and Honour the Chapter. Lastly, we have the best Warlord Trait for an army built for Stratagems. Refunds are amazing and will frustrate your opponent. Take Adept of the Codex EVERY TIME people! I'm interested in hearing other peoples musings on the subject. :)

I've been thinking that defeating armies with Mortarion in them will require some quite specific methods, to the extent I considered Frater would want to access that information directly. In this topic we will discuss 2 aspects to the same problem in an aid to winning a game against a Death Guard army - killing Mortarion and beating an army with him in it. I consider killing Mortarion to be quite difficult to do. He's got a monstrous amount of wounds and a nearby sorceror can heal him D3 wounds a turn I believe. Added to Disgustingly Resilient and we have a character that will likely last to the end of the game. So what ideas to players have to kill Mortarion? I'm considering people need help when not using Guilliman or an Imperial Knight. Bracketing him with a Devastator squad for a few turns can drag down his wounds regardless of how tough he is, but it might require some guts to finish him off. He's coming for you! He won't stand there and let you shoot him! Maybe a Terminator squad counter attack would help? Whacking him with power fists is going to hurt but can they survive back? I'm thinking it's Cataphractii and Assault Terminators only who can counter charge him to hold him up. On that note, holding him up whilst we punish his army is the other side of that coin. He costs a lot of points so if he is fighting 5-10 Terminators all game you're still up!

I decided my lists needed more close combat power so I've added Vanguard Veterans to it. My point in creating this thread is to discuss uses and load outs and my peers experiences. I'm thinking Jump Packs are mandatory. The speed is crucial and being able to drop in along with another unit (like Terminators) adds saturation. What sort of wargear do people consider decent? I wanted 3 power axes, Sergeant with twin lightning claws and 3 with Storm Shields and chainswords. The last 3 members I'd get double chainswords for extra oomph. However, the unit isn't overly powerful in assault, particulary against tough targets. Twin lightning claws instead of power axes gives an extra 3 attacks to the unit and rerolling to wound is better than S5 in many cases. Problem is the cost. It mounts up. What do folk consider here? What do you use your Vanguard for? What do you arm them with?

This army is the next big thing in competetive games seeing how their gun lines are superb and numerous. How do we best them? I've got theoretical but no practical this edition. Decent terrain is a must against them I feel. For too long an open table has been considered "normal". My initial theoretical are decent numbers (My go to answer) mixed with reasonable fire support and an attack force. I have Cataphractii Terminators and Vanguard who can spear head an attack, along with a Rhino full of Sternguard, which is ideal for most armies but I do worry against Astra Millitarum.

Hi All, Been creeping the forum for a while, but this is my first post (once I have a couple more painted Templars I'll make a post for my crusade). Anyway, I recently went to Warhammer World in Nottingham and purchased the exclusive Primaris Rhino/Land Raider Excelsior box and am wondering if you guys have any good ideas of how to fit them into a list. I can see the LRE working well as an assault vehicle with TH/SS termies since it give re-rolls to 1's, but only having 10 transport capacity makes it hard to fit in the characters that I feel are needed for CC support. I guess keeping it in the backfield with some extra long range support and a Castellan could work too. I'm very interested to hear other ideas

So I've been throwing some list together for 8th edition the last few weeks, and by a few I mean an unhealthy amount. With my Raven Guard I tend to stay away from tanks and fliers and try to keep a more marine based force with assault troops, scouts and land speeders. This of course puts me at the difficult position of squeezing as much my anti-tank fire power as I can from units that might not be as effective at it. For example, I might run double multimeltas on my land speeders, missile launchers in scouts squads, heavy weapons in sternguard and devestators etc... One of my go to options has always been melta bombs on my vanguards. As I was going over the rules I saw that the melta bomb was a grenade with a 4" range. That seemed fine to me until I realized that grenades can't be used in the fight phase and must be used in the shooting phase. Hmmm...this seems like a big nerf to my favorite explosive... I'm kind of struggling to come up with a scenario where a 4" range shooting attack would come in handy...For example take a basic vanguard squad with melta bombs; your options are: Deepstrike 9" away from target and shoot. [melta bomb wont be in range] Deepstrike 9" away and charge. [melta bomb can't be used in close combat] Walk the Vanguards to the target and "shoot" the melta bomb when within 4" Option 3 is the only way to make this work, right? I'm not missing anything? This is kind of a bummer as exposing vanguard veterans usually means your vv's wont be on the board the next turn. Also, most of my targets for melta bombs were usually the enemies back field support vehicles which will be difficult to reach without getting shot to pieces. At least if the melta bombs were usable in combat you have a chance to get the charge off, now they seem kind of neutered. What do you guys think? Am I missing something?

Newer AM player here. Got in very late in 7th, but really didn't play too much. Like many, I was aiming to run a mech guard list with veterans as the backbone. With their movement to Elites and the removal of doctrines, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to run my lads. We have the traditional options: Meltacide in Valkyrie or Chimera Demo Vets in Valkyrie Plasma Vets with Carapace in Chimera Sniper vets with an Auto cannon and camocloaks (for objective holding) Are any of these builds still viable? I'm sensing that they can still be good in a Valkyrie with Melta and shotguns. Still a suicide squad, but effective. Thoughts? How are you guys going to be running Veterans?

Since nobody has stepped forward, I'll take the burden. I cannot do an in-depth review of every unit, much less maths, so just a few units for now; but that's a nice thing imho, so the community can fill the gaps, correct me when I'm wrong and bring ideas, combos, synergies and what not. And I'm pretty sure that here are some veteran DE players that would put this thread-o-pain in the place it belongs. So deal with me and feel free to contribute and share the pain. Archons. They are decent, but nothing spectacular, have a nice invuln and can take a Ld debuff in the form of the Phantasm GL. For wargear, the classic blast pistol+agonizer is pretty solid. If you want to take a Court of the Archon, Lhamaean and Sslyth are solid, but somewhat expensive. Drazhar. Is a beast in CQC, and buff the Incubi to insane levels of killyness. As like much of the DE stuff, he is better if he manages the charge (which shouldn't be that difficult because he is fast and can ride Raiders with his Incubi pals). To put this in numbers, on the charge a unit of 9 incubi+drazhar would be killing ~4 terminators, ~11 marines or ~17 guardsmen on average. It is not a cheap combo (dudes+ride is about ~430 points) but it can be nasty. Venoms. Awesome transport, screaming to be spammed. They're cheap, can be deadly to infantry with dual Splinter Cannon (12 shots that wound non-vehicles on 4+) forcing a lot of saves (which you can add the firepower of the transported unit if necessary), high mobility at 16". It also have a 5++ save and are hit with a -1 penalty, meaning that plasma weapons aimed at him would overheat on 1-2 on a D6 as per the new FAQ. While not specially tough in the statline, they are cheap and with the Flickerfield, the Night Shield, T6 and a 4+ save they are going to be more durable than the statline suggests. Warriors. Cheap and spammable, armed with splinter rifles and a trusty blaster they are great for dealing extra dmg on enemy units. Regarding Ravagers (always triple lance, unless your meta is really horde-heavy) I'm going to quote the Potato God here: On the Voidravens he's referring to the 6.667 mortal wounds it would deal on average against non-vehicle/monster units of 10+ models. But I also love the Razorwing jetfighter, with dual lances, splinter cannon, and funky missiles it's a very annoying unit (and a really good looking model) that can caress everything for just 170 points. For the Reavers I'm going to just quote Slips, as he grasps them better than me: And lastly I'm going to quote myself regarding Talos because I'm really tired: "If you like big nasty things, triple talos (barebones) can also deal a lot of damage both in the shooting phase and in close combat, and you'll like to have a friendly (if that is even possible) haemonculus near them, for a nice and sweet +1T bonus." Looking forward to see your thought on this. Cheers!

Hey all. I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread discussing the lists and tactics people are using in SW:A with their Guard. Feel free to post up any army lists you're working on and discuss any tactics that have or haven't been working for you. To be honest, any Imperial Guard SW:A chat is welcome here. At the minute, I'm working on converting up a Veteran Kill Team based on one of the Black Library Novels. You can check out their progress in my thread. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321424-stuff-thangs/ Here is my provisional starting list. 1. Veteran Sergeant with lasgun, camo gear 150 2. Veteran with lasgun, camo gear 90 3. Veteran with lasgun, camo gear 90 4. Veteran with lasgun, camo gear 90 5. Veteran with shotgun, lasgun, camo gear 110 6. Special Weapons Operative with plasma gun, camo gear 155 7. Special Weapons Operative with sniper rifle, telescopic sight, toxic rounds, camo gear 155 8. Special Weapons Operative with grenade launcher (frag), camo gear 160 1000/1000 The plan with this list is to buy two recruits without any other gear after my first game, to bring me up to maximum team size. They'll try not to die in the second game (as I don't believe you can give traded gear to a recruit before their first game). I will then give one the shotgunner's spare lasgun and use my 100 points to get a lasgun and camo gear for the new recruits, and a smattering of new gear for the vets. Sound like a decent plan? In my opinion, it looks like lasguns are a better plan than shotguns, but I have the model and it's more of a rule of cool thing. That said, if anyone has had success using shotguns, let us know. I don't know if the special weapons I've chosen are the most optimal, but I thought it would be more interesting to try different weapons than to spam the "best" gun. One option for my list is to drop the spare lasgun and give the sgt. a bolter and grab a clip harness for the sniper? Do people think this is a better option? Dallo

Tactics Time! :D Now, I am no Orks expert, nor even an Orks player yet. But they are very much on my radar at the moment (I have two "Start Collecting" boxes in my cart right now). And 8th Edition rules are such a drastic departure from 7th that a clean slate has been applied to the game, giving everything a degree of playability. It's a great opportunity for us to playtest units, weapon options and army lists. It's also past time we got an Ork Tactics thread started. :) For some added benefits, here's a link to Da WAAAGH!'s Tactics forum: http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/index.php?showforum=4 To kick things off - the Brigade Detachment. At 2000 points, it is definitely a possibility, as every compulsory slot has units that cost <50 points. This allows you to meet the minimum requirements whilst still creating a themed and competitive army. 12+ Command Points is nothing to sneeze at! So my question is this... What would you take in a Brigade Detachment?

Hello all The index version of our dreadnoughts was discussed a lot on this forum. I think the consensus was that especially the Libby was a strong unit. But that both the libby and the Death Company Dread was a bit too points-expensive. The Furioso wasn't used much at all. But what about now? I can't seem to find a lot of discussions concerning the codex version of our Dreadnoughts. The Libby and the DCD have dropped somewhat in points - and the new psychic powers means more flexibility. But what do you think? Are they still to expensive? Is the DCD still to vulnerable and difficult to get into combat? I would love to hear your thoughts and game-experiences with them. Cheers

I'm taking my Ultramarines to a tournament in January. My list choice is pretty set because of models available but I wanted to start a discussion on what sort of hurdles Ultramarines will have to overcome to win our games? Major challenges such as gun lines lead by Guilliman is a particular worry for me. Imperial Guard/Astra Millitarum with ALL the tanks could be a problem. Hmmm what else? Dark Angels and Blood Angels are superior to us in most games so I think a balanced list of either is going to be difficult for me but if they specialise their armylist along shooting and close combat respectively I actually fancy my chances. Here's my list: It's struggling points wise to make many changes without losing a crucial attack force and I know the Terminators need their Captain for added punch when I drop the Vanguard and Terminators onto the enemy. The Techmarine was included simply because he was cheap and helped my Dreadnought more than a Chaplain would help the Sternguard and Captain. The Culexus Assassin is amazing and a trump card. He's the reason I had to ditch my lovely Captain in Cataphractii armour. Anyway, you can see that my list has large numbers and a mix between attacking potential and a shooting support base. I have used to it defeat a friend's Grey Knights who is a highly competetive player (as well as other less competetive players). I fancy my chances against most Marines lists. I reckon I can beat Tyranids except maybe their gun line armies. Like I said, it's things like Guilliman protecting a gunline. My attack force will meet a Primarch and probably die when I need it, along with my shooting, to take out the gunline.

Looking at some of these lost legion projects I've noticed many focus on building a legion around a tactic missing from the known legions. Which got me thinking, is there a comprehensive list of what each legion's specialty is? I know the obvious ones, like Imperial Fists are siege defense, Iron Warriors besieger, Alpha Legion espionage. But legions like Ultramarine, Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children... do they have specialties? And beyond that, what specialties/tactics are missed by the Legions?